Early 500's could they be a good buy?

[eng622]

Reading about the early 500's appears to indicate they may not be a good buy. The engine gained some mods. for later cars I assume for good reason. Is the older Rover box up to the torque. Do these early cars have the potentially troublesome GKN diff. Anything else I should be aware of, thanks

[BJWoods]

eng622 said:

Reading about the early 500's appears to indicate they may not be a good buy. The engine gained some mods. for later cars I assume for good reason. Is the older Rover box up to the torque. Do these early cars have the potentially troublesome GKN diff. Anything else I should be aware of, thanks

not a uge diff in torqu between a 4.3 or 4.3 bv and an early 500, it really depends how it has been driven, anybody can thrash anycar.

B

[Bluebottle]

BJWoods said:

eng622 said:

Reading about the early 500's appears to indicate they may not be a good buy. The engine gained some mods. for later cars I assume for good reason. Is the older Rover box up to the torque. Do these early cars have the potentially troublesome GKN diff. Anything else I should be aware of, thanks

not a uge diff in torqu between a 4.3 or 4.3 bv and an early 500, it really depends how it has been driven, anybody can thrash anycar.

B

A lot of the early 500 actually had more torque than the later serpentine engines, my first one certainly did.
The early rover LT77 box allegedly more fragile but i haven't seen anyone substantiate that. I actually preferred the gear shift over the later T5 box.
GKN over BTR is a potentially a weakness, you can get the LSD overhauled no problem but if the crown and pinion gear wear/break then its difficult to find a replacement as they are no longer made.
Other than the above its down to condition and whether you want a later reg. date.
As with all tiv's condition is everything and newer doesn't necessarily mean better.

[Pasco]

Hamish me thinks you should get out more !!

[Blue Burner]

Great car...go for it if that is all you can afford. Loved mine to bits and would have one again some day but the Tuscan is another storey

[Bluebottle]

Pasco said:

Hamish me thinks you should get out more !!

Me thinks I've been absorbing to much information...now where did i put my anarak?

[griffter]

eng622 said:

Reading about the early 500's appears to indicate they may not be a good buy. The engine gained some mods. for later cars I assume for good reason. Is the older Rover box up to the torque. Do these early cars have the potentially troublesome GKN diff. Anything else I should be aware of, thanks

The engine mods were dictated by what LR gave TVR. There's nothing 'wrong' with the pre-serp engines, although the serp engines have a different oil pump drive (I forget what the advantage is - oil pump priming?)

The Rover box is up to the torque. The T5 can take more torque, but both wear in their own ways. I too prefer the feel of the LT77 (Rover). The Rover box is cheaper to rebuild if it does go.

Parts for GKN are problematic. I don't know that anyone has explored the possibility of help from a Maserati specialist thought - someone like Bill McGrath may be able to solve the parts problem. Far greater obstacles stand in the way of keeping a Maserati on the road.

Early 500s are certainly not a bad buy - but for my money (ie roughly the same) I'd buy a precat.

[Adrian@]

eng622 said:

Reading about the early 500's appears to indicate they may not be a good buy. The engine gained some mods. for later cars I assume for good reason. Is the older Rover box up to the torque. Do these early cars have the potentially troublesome GKN diff. Anything else I should be aware of, thanks

I agree with griffter, the gearbox and diff are good for the power of the engine athough IMHO the gearbox has a minor issue with the gearbox linkage bush that a spherical bush mod can cure, I have spoken to my man at GKN this week and he tells me that parts for the GKN are available...but I have never had an issue with these, the last 3 customers with diff issues had wheel bearing failures!
I would be more concerned with the speed of the steering rack rather than these issues, which does relate to how the car feels to drive, the TVR logo'd version of the rack IMHO is far better. (I defined the rack as such so a layman car tell the difference at a glance)
Adrian@

[spend]

griffter said:

Parts for GKN are problematic. I don't know that anyone has explored the possibility of help from a Maserati specialist thought - someone like Bill McGrath may be able to solve the parts problem. Far greater obstacles stand in the way of keeping a Maserati on the road.

MOC have recently discovered that they can source diffs from our TVRs, BTW

Dave

[red griff 500]

pre serps apparently have a different oil pump arrangement (like the previous responder said, I don't know the advantage/disadvantage) My early 500 oil pressure is very good. Also, the pre-serps apparently have better camshaft axial location which consists of a plate that locates in a groove in the camshaft. The Serps end location is by means of the covers restraining the ends of the cam. LT177 box is fine. At the end of the day, it really doesnt matter about any of this stuff as long as the car is in good nick. Good luck.

[350Matt]

Not wishing to wind up any early 500 owners, but the reason I stayed clear of buying a pre-serp 500 is the occasional tale which crops up on here with snapped crankshafts and moving cylinder liners.

Matt

[The Griffalo]

350Matt said:

Not wishing to wind up any early 500 owners, but the reason I stayed clear of buying a pre-serp 500 is the occasional tale which crops up on here with snapped crankshafts and moving cylinder liners.

Matt

Steady on, with talk like that they'll get a reputation for being as unreliable as the Speed Six


I reckon they're gonna start to appreciate pretty soon anyway

[spend]

350Matt said:

Not wishing to wind up any early 500 owners, but the reason I stayed clear of buying a pre-serp 500 is the occasional tale which crops up on here with snapped crankshafts and moving cylinder liners.

Matt

Huh! I thought there were more occurrences of slipped liners in the later blocks? My common take on general reliability was that TVR had just taken a great deal of extra care building the pre-serp 430's and 500's. Not a slur on other engines but more like an 'above & beyond duty' type of thing..

Dave

[eng622]

Thanks to date for replies. Regarding steering, what is the difference in the speed of the rack between pre- serp and serp and serp with PS?

[Adrian@]

eng622 said:

Thanks to date for replies. Regarding steering, what is the difference in the speed of the rack between pre- serp and serp and serp with PS?

This is not related to pre-serp and serp, the rack ratio is different and this makes the car 'flighty' at speed.
IMHO you would look for a car with PAS and air conditioning when buying your car, there are a few about, look for bespoke rather than flash (silver/gunmetal, as they appeal to a wider purchaser if you sell), get someone to check the car over. Join the TVRCC and look at the cars at club meets....The crank issue relates to a period when TVR first got to produce the 500 crank where they insisted that the pattern was made in house and this caused porosity in the material, most of the 'areo' cranks were caught at the machining shop where the cranks were then written off, (I was party to the x-ray tests by the foundry when TVR blamed them for poor casting work) some got through, this should never be a worry to you as a purchaser, as a used car crank has got to be considered as work hardened.
Adrian@

Edited by Adrian@ on Friday 13th July 14:05

[FFMan]

I bought an early 500 nearly a year ago now and I think its great. I had read the gearbox was a weak point but they're cheap anyhow, and opinions seem mixed. Two writers above said they prefer the rover gearbox. It can be a bit notchy when cold, and cos reverse is up near first you can select R accidentally, but neither of these are issues really.

Mine has no PAS and its fine. My wife and I share it and she has no issues with it. I've never driven a PAS one, but I'm not a fan in drivers cars as i think you lose feel, but then I race a formula ford so I'm used to feel through the wheel.

My speedo and rev counter go the wrong way, but its a british sports car, i love its quirks and get a thrill everytime i drive it.

If you can find a nice early 500, you won't be disappointed.

[BJWoods]

FFMan said:

I bought an early 500 nearly a year ago now and I think its great. I had read the gearbox was a weak point but they're cheap anyhow, and opinions seem mixed. Two writers above said they prefer the rover gearbox. It can be a bit notchy when cold, and cos reverse is up near first you can select R accidentally, but neither of these are issues really.

Mine has no PAS and its fine. My wife and I share it and she has no issues with it. I've never driven a PAS one, but I'm not a fan in drivers cars as i think you lose feel, but then I race a formula ford so I'm used to feel through the wheel.

My speedo and rev counter go the wrong way, but its a british sports car, i love its quirks and get a thrill everytime i drive it.

If you can find a nice early 500, you won't be disappointed.

if you lose the back end. IT is a hell of a lot easier to catch with PAS than non pas... experience of here ;( griff 4.3 nonpas, griff 500 pas...

to be honest when you are not loosing the back end, it doesn't 'feel' any different on the move pas/nonpas. just parking, ie less than 2-3 mph is SOOOOO much easier.

B

[Bluebottle]

BJWoods said:

if you lose the back end. IT is a hell of a lot easier to catch with PAS than non pas... experience of here ;( griff 4.3 nonpas, griff 500 pas...

to be honest when you are not loosing the back end, it doesn't 'feel' any different on the move pas/nonpas. just parking, ie less than 2-3 mph is SOOOOO much easier.

B

Totally agree, I've had two non PAS cars and on this one I converted it to PAS and it was an incredible difference. Especially on track as mentioned above and you still get plenty of feed back.