Impact of Cat C on values
Discussion
£12k was mooted as a price for his '97 500 with 37k as a catC which by what he put up still needs a lot of TLC
I'd be surprised if it would make this when cars like Nik Bowmans 4.6 precat with 40k and so much obvious work and care are available for £10k
Surely its worth less than that, no matter what its age or engine size
I'd be surprised if it would make this when cars like Nik Bowmans 4.6 precat with 40k and so much obvious work and care are available for £10k
Surely its worth less than that, no matter what its age or engine size
Don't get too hung up on CAT C/D values. At the end of the day there are a limit supply of Griffiths available and good ones are far between.
Insurance companys will write off a Griffith very easily because of the hassle involved and the extra costs incured of hire cars and the like.
If u are buying as a keeper then forget CAT C/D at then end of the day conditon is the number 1 factor.
These are not Ford Mondeo's, there are not an unlimited selection available, buy on the condition and the spec you like, a CAT C/D car will be just as good
Insurance companys will write off a Griffith very easily because of the hassle involved and the extra costs incured of hire cars and the like.
If u are buying as a keeper then forget CAT C/D at then end of the day conditon is the number 1 factor.
These are not Ford Mondeo's, there are not an unlimited selection available, buy on the condition and the spec you like, a CAT C/D car will be just as good
I agree with your reasoning but I think it's always going to be a factor that puts off buyers, so they'd expect a reduced price, even though a properly repaired car is as good as a new one. It's a bit like mileage – most secondhand car buyers seem really hung up on it and try to avoid buying high mileage cars. The fact is that under-use is almost as damaging to cars, particularly machines like TVRs, as high use. Certainly some of of the Griffs I've driven with 60-70k on the clock have felt fitter than some 30-40k garage queens. Having said that, I ended up going for one with 39k, not because high mileage bothers me but because I know it will be easier to sell if I have to.
Quinny said:
Exceptionally cheap usually means exceptionally crap.
Cat C or not has very little bearing on condition. And thats what all Griffs should be bought on.
Though I can't disagree with you, Quinny, unfortunately people perceive CAT C as bad news for whatever reason.Cat C or not has very little bearing on condition. And thats what all Griffs should be bought on.
You're right, people should go off condition but they don't. The phrase CAT C scares most people shitless. Which is a shame because I know how nice a CAT C car can be when repaired properly like yours.
Edited by lazyitus on Thursday 20th December 12:53
Aren't we forgetting something here? Buying a TVR is not something to undertake lightly, so people tend to do research. Mostly, it seems to me, this research involves asking questions on the TVR forums on PistonHeads...
Such questions as: "What does cat C do the value?"
I'm seeing a circular argument here.
For my money, a cat C Griff isn't a problem because there's nothing like as much chance of hidden nasties like dodgy airbag repairs, bad welds hidden in awkward places, cutting & shutting etc simply because the Griff either doesn't have them or they'll be damned obvious as soon as you see the car.
Such questions as: "What does cat C do the value?"
I'm seeing a circular argument here.
For my money, a cat C Griff isn't a problem because there's nothing like as much chance of hidden nasties like dodgy airbag repairs, bad welds hidden in awkward places, cutting & shutting etc simply because the Griff either doesn't have them or they'll be damned obvious as soon as you see the car.
clive f said:
Quinny, consider your bum well and truley licked mate
no offence Lazyitus.
Offence taken. no offence Lazyitus.
I know how nice Quinnys car is because I've seen it. It's not a bum licking post at all. I'm just trying to point out that a CAT C car can be in better condition than one that hasn't had an accident but the stigma can be wrongly applied.
Edited by lazyitus on Thursday 20th December 16:19
dnb said:
For my money, a cat C Griff isn't a problem because there's nothing like as much chance of hidden nasties like dodgy airbag repairs, bad welds hidden in awkward places, cutting & shutting etc simply because the Griff either doesn't have them or they'll be damned obvious as soon as you see the car.
'Zackly. 
Plus most of them weren't perfect from the factory, so if the job's a good'un it could well be better than when it was new... But you are missing the point - it's not about the actual condition of the CAT Griffith - it's potential customers' reticence to consider a CAT car of any description. Those that will consider a CAT Griffith are aware of the difficulty to resell in future and so want to pay a cheap price - it's all about acceptance of risk and the price purchasers put on that risk.
jonjo
jonjo
jonjo said:
All the wishful thinking in the world won't change the fact that Cat C/D Griffiths will not sell for anything like the price of a straight undamaged Griffith - Sorry!
jonjo
You're right it shouldn't... but TVR prices are so varied & subjective.. and people still buy on the 'all that glitters' syndrome whatever you say/advise.. jonjo
Dave
The problem here ends up at the insurance level assuming condition of the vehicles are equal. Insurance companies take into consideration any losses on record (d or c) when they decide on a value. Standard policy companies such as norwich union and hastings will devalue to 50% of the market value a car that has been written off before. They will raise this up to a maximum of 90% if the car, after repair, is inspected by a company such as autoalign. Specialist classic car insurers may not be so harsh on values but most will require a full engineers report before confirming an agreed value, but in most cases it will still be lower than full market value of a non-cat car.
The question is this,if you had the choice between two cars that were identical in terms of price,condition, mileage, service history etc etc would most/all buyers take the non cat car?
The question is this,if you had the choice between two cars that were identical in terms of price,condition, mileage, service history etc etc would most/all buyers take the non cat car?
dwgriffith said:
The question is this,if you had the choice between two cars that were identical in terms of price,condition, mileage, service history etc etc would most/all buyers take the non cat car?
Sure - but with low volume and to an extent bespoke cars that are about 10-12 year old on average, the chances of finding two examples close enough to identical for this mechanism to come into play, are practically nil.Quinny
With respect you are still missing the point - it is the label (Cat C) that devalues the Griffith not the actual condition of the Griffith. It's to do with confidence in the marketplace and individuals attitude to future risk, i.e. how much of their hard-earned will they get back when they go to sell or worse still will anyone want it.
Don't take it personally mate.
jonjo
With respect you are still missing the point - it is the label (Cat C) that devalues the Griffith not the actual condition of the Griffith. It's to do with confidence in the marketplace and individuals attitude to future risk, i.e. how much of their hard-earned will they get back when they go to sell or worse still will anyone want it.
Don't take it personally mate.
jonjo
I think you both agree??? The issue in question is the valuation of a particular car ~ book values for TVRs are out the window IMHO...
Jigs is right, you can knock of 5%-50% the value of a car if it is on the register, but 5-50% of what? - its market value...
Quinny is dead right, car is what its worth, and as he says plenty of TVR's around that have been fixed up privately when an insurance claim would have put them on the register.
Values vary wildly on these cars for good reason...
Dave
Jigs is right, you can knock of 5%-50% the value of a car if it is on the register, but 5-50% of what? - its market value...
Quinny is dead right, car is what its worth, and as he says plenty of TVR's around that have been fixed up privately when an insurance claim would have put them on the register.
Values vary wildly on these cars for good reason...
Dave
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