How to upgrade my 500?
Discussion
Already had the Mark Adams chip which improved the responsiveness of the engine and gave it a bit more power (290) and torque (350) but looking for something more.
In particular sharper (more) acceleration and better road holding.
Don't have a huge budget, so a supercharger is out of the question.
Any advice from those who have had such work??
Thanks
In particular sharper (more) acceleration and better road holding.
Don't have a huge budget, so a supercharger is out of the question.
Any advice from those who have had such work??
Thanks
have you read this months sprint!!says it all really.
but one thing i found which helped make the 5 litre more free revving is the
carbon triple plenum and smooth bore intake,excellent!!
as for road holding a quality set of adjustable springs & dampers,4 wheel alignment,and replace any worn bushes,also make sure you fit rose joints with the dampers.
but don't forget a brake upgrade,and more important than any of the above is some driver training!!!
Edited by tbdgriff500 on Friday 11th January 10:11
Each time you change things, you're likely to need the mapping done.
Either get a lot done and Mark to map it, then leave it.
Alternatively, and better get an ECU. There's several to choose from, but Emerald is popular.
This will allow you to remap more cheaply. Thus you're able to do other tuning in stages as funds permit.
The added bonuses are that you gain a higher control of ignition timing and no AFM to restrict the intake.
These will give you power and economy gains on their own.
Either get a lot done and Mark to map it, then leave it.
Alternatively, and better get an ECU. There's several to choose from, but Emerald is popular.
This will allow you to remap more cheaply. Thus you're able to do other tuning in stages as funds permit.
The added bonuses are that you gain a higher control of ignition timing and no AFM to restrict the intake.
These will give you power and economy gains on their own.
dampers, springs suspension geometry....
Will get the power down better, faster out of corners, etc, morec confidence in expoloiting the existing power...
apm in sprint are now doing ohlins, (on my griff a couple of years a go- and are excellent)
all the power options are answered in an excellent article in this months sprint. well worth it this issue...
new(re-engineered block by cosworth - with improvements?!? offered by tvr power in it as well.
B
Will get the power down better, faster out of corners, etc, morec confidence in expoloiting the existing power...
apm in sprint are now doing ohlins, (on my griff a couple of years a go- and are excellent)
all the power options are answered in an excellent article in this months sprint. well worth it this issue...
new(re-engineered block by cosworth - with improvements?!? offered by tvr power in it as well.
B
Uncle Fester said:
Each time you change things, you're likely to need the mapping done.
Either get a lot done and Mark to map it, then leave it.
Alternatively, and better get an ECU. There's several to choose from, but Emerald is popular.
This will allow you to remap more cheaply. Thus you're able to do other tuning in stages as funds permit.
The added bonuses are that you gain a higher control of ignition timing and no AFM to restrict the intake.
These will give you power and economy gains on their own.
How much 'more cheaply' going off the article in Sprint it seems to say one hour to map, or do you get charged for a chip each time as well?Either get a lot done and Mark to map it, then leave it.
Alternatively, and better get an ECU. There's several to choose from, but Emerald is popular.
This will allow you to remap more cheaply. Thus you're able to do other tuning in stages as funds permit.
The added bonuses are that you gain a higher control of ignition timing and no AFM to restrict the intake.
These will give you power and economy gains on their own.
ray_von said:
Uncle Fester said:
Each time you change things, you're likely to need the mapping done.
Either get a lot done and Mark to map it, then leave it.
Alternatively, and better get an ECU. There's several to choose from, but Emerald is popular.
This will allow you to remap more cheaply. Thus you're able to do other tuning in stages as funds permit.
The added bonuses are that you gain a higher control of ignition timing and no AFM to restrict the intake.
These will give you power and economy gains on their own.
How much 'more cheaply' going off the article in Sprint it seems to say one hour to map, or do you get charged for a chip each time as well?Either get a lot done and Mark to map it, then leave it.
Alternatively, and better get an ECU. There's several to choose from, but Emerald is popular.
This will allow you to remap more cheaply. Thus you're able to do other tuning in stages as funds permit.
The added bonuses are that you gain a higher control of ignition timing and no AFM to restrict the intake.
These will give you power and economy gains on their own.
Bluebottle said:
ray_von said:
Uncle Fester said:
Each time you change things, you're likely to need the mapping done.
Either get a lot done and Mark to map it, then leave it.
Alternatively, and better get an ECU. There's several to choose from, but Emerald is popular.
This will allow you to remap more cheaply. Thus you're able to do other tuning in stages as funds permit.
The added bonuses are that you gain a higher control of ignition timing and no AFM to restrict the intake.
These will give you power and economy gains on their own.
How much 'more cheaply' going off the article in Sprint it seems to say one hour to map, or do you get charged for a chip each time as well?Either get a lot done and Mark to map it, then leave it.
Alternatively, and better get an ECU. There's several to choose from, but Emerald is popular.
This will allow you to remap more cheaply. Thus you're able to do other tuning in stages as funds permit.
The added bonuses are that you gain a higher control of ignition timing and no AFM to restrict the intake.
These will give you power and economy gains on their own.
Three years ago Mark told me to budget £750 for your first chip and rolling road session.Today that figure is close to £1k by all accounts,or you'll be lucky to get much change apparently.Mark always seems much more expensive for subsequent mapping as well,compared to getting my Omex mapped at least,but i guess a big part of this is because your paying two businesses every time,i.e. the rolling road plus Mark.
To put things into perspective i had my Omex mapped from scratch after instalation,for both fuel and ignition for £270 all in.This is why if you plan a series of mods it makes much more senst to go Emerald or Omex etc.What the article in sprint also doesnt tell you is just how restrictive the Lucas ecu and afm are to making power,larger afm or not(std afm restricts from 150bhp and the large one restricts from 200bhp)!You cant blame the authors for only promoting themselves,particularly when they all work closely together,but a more independantly written article would have made much more interesting reading for sure!!
To put things into perspective i had my Omex mapped from scratch after instalation,for both fuel and ignition for £270 all in.This is why if you plan a series of mods it makes much more senst to go Emerald or Omex etc.What the article in sprint also doesnt tell you is just how restrictive the Lucas ecu and afm are to making power,larger afm or not(std afm restricts from 150bhp and the large one restricts from 200bhp)!You cant blame the authors for only promoting themselves,particularly when they all work closely together,but a more independantly written article would have made much more interesting reading for sure!!
I had my MA chip etc installed in 05. Paid £360 for the Tornado chip. £600 for the Rolling Road and Pauls and Mark Adams time. This was 2 hours work although they spent alot longer than that with my car along with whipping the injectors out for a wash. All in all I was very Happy with the way the dealt with everything and the time spent with MA was well i say very educational. I arrived there at 11 ish and left at around the same time in the eve.
BB
BB
The AJP Griff said:
Three years ago Mark told me to budget £750 for your first chip and rolling road session.Today that figure is close to £1k by all accounts,or you'll be lucky to get much change apparently.Mark always seems much more expensive for subsequent mapping as well,compared to getting my Omex mapped at least,but i guess a big part of this is because your paying two businesses every time,i.e. the rolling road plus Mark.
To put things into perspective i had my Omex mapped from scratch after instalation,for both fuel and ignition for £270 all in.This is why if you plan a series of mods it makes much more senst to go Emerald or Omex etc.What the article in sprint also doesnt tell you is just how restrictive the Lucas ecu and afm are to making power,larger afm or not(std afm restricts from 150bhp and the large one restricts from 200bhp)!You cant blame the authors for only promoting themselves,particularly when they all work closely together,but a more independantly written article would have made much more interesting reading for sure!!
I couldn`t agree more Mike, well said, I know its detracing from the thread topic, by surely Sprint should take un unbiased view, and report on all aspects of engine tuning and modifications.To put things into perspective i had my Omex mapped from scratch after instalation,for both fuel and ignition for £270 all in.This is why if you plan a series of mods it makes much more senst to go Emerald or Omex etc.What the article in sprint also doesnt tell you is just how restrictive the Lucas ecu and afm are to making power,larger afm or not(std afm restricts from 150bhp and the large one restricts from 200bhp)!You cant blame the authors for only promoting themselves,particularly when they all work closely together,but a more independantly written article would have made much more interesting reading for sure!!
tbdgriff500 said:
have you read this months sprint!!says it all really.
but one thing i found which helped make the 5 litre more free revving is the
carbon triple plenum and smooth bore intake,excellent!!
as for road holding a quality set of adjustable springs & dampers,4 wheel alignment,and replace any worn bushes,also make sure you fit rose joints with the dampers.
but don't forget a brake upgrade,and more important than any of the above is some driver training!!!
Edited by tbdgriff500 on Friday 11th January 10:11
At a bit of a disadvantage as the postman hasn't made my day. Once Sprint is here I will know what you are all on about.
OP, with a Tornado chip all you are changing is the fuel. With the others you are changing the timing too. And in ways no distributor can. This ability to match fuel and timing is important.
You get the software to go on your laptop. You plug your laptop into the ECU. You can map it yourself on the road, but it usually would be better on a rolling road. You can learn to do this yourself from a book.
So re-maps are anything between free, and the costs of a RR plus the tuner of your choice.
If you email me I will send you an ECU manual and the program that you use to map the ECU. Stick it on your PC and have a play.
OP, with a Tornado chip all you are changing is the fuel. With the others you are changing the timing too. And in ways no distributor can. This ability to match fuel and timing is important.
You get the software to go on your laptop. You plug your laptop into the ECU. You can map it yourself on the road, but it usually would be better on a rolling road. You can learn to do this yourself from a book.
So re-maps are anything between free, and the costs of a RR plus the tuner of your choice.
If you email me I will send you an ECU manual and the program that you use to map the ECU. Stick it on your PC and have a play.
Uncle Fester said:
At a bit of a disadvantage as the postman hasn't made my day. Once Sprint is here I will know what you are all on about.
OP, with a Tornado chip all you are changing is the fuel. With the others you are changing the timing too. And in ways no distributor can. This ability to match fuel and timing is important.
You get the software to go on your laptop. You plug your laptop into the ECU. You can map it yourself on the road, but it usually would be better on a rolling road. You can learn to do this yourself from a book.
So re-maps are anything between free, and the costs of a RR plus the tuner of your choice.
If you email me I will send you an ECU manual and the program that you use to map the ECU. Stick it on your PC and have a play.
So which will you have first hand experience of first? your TVR magazine or your Emerald ECU.OP, with a Tornado chip all you are changing is the fuel. With the others you are changing the timing too. And in ways no distributor can. This ability to match fuel and timing is important.
You get the software to go on your laptop. You plug your laptop into the ECU. You can map it yourself on the road, but it usually would be better on a rolling road. You can learn to do this yourself from a book.
So re-maps are anything between free, and the costs of a RR plus the tuner of your choice.
If you email me I will send you an ECU manual and the program that you use to map the ECU. Stick it on your PC and have a play.
They'll all be wanting to steal your map tho
Dave
Do your handling & braking first, power is not much fun if it becomes dangerous IMHO.
A lot of relatively inexpensive work renewing consumables like bushes, UJs, BJ's, TRE's... coupled with decent dampers and springs (preferably not the barge versions ) followed by a good geo setup is probably the best starting point. I am assuming the earlier poster was referring to rose jointed ARB drop links, dampers with bearings are a nice, just get the best you can afford (the better ones can make do without the rubber). Brakes can be done within a reasonable cost, but if you can afford carbon triple throttle stuff, then AP's should be a must.
Whilst MA had pretty much cornered the market on the higher power motors a while ago, the situation has changed somewhat. Gradually more V8'sters are moving to alternate ECUs, the major benefit being that they can get mapped ignition at the same time. It probably does take longer than an MA session, but an MA session & getting him to fit a mapped ignition would probably cost a lot more (money & time).
Alt ECU prices are falling continually, remember it is not just the cost of the ECU, it is mainly the coilpacks, trig wheels & sensors that are falling. For most people it seems that the simple ECU's are well up to the job, sometimes the lack of complexity is a boon to the DIY sector as apart from less complicated wiring it is also easier to map. I don't think there is any problem with this, you will always be able to upgrade the ecu later if you wish the 2nd market in ecus is very buoyant
You will have also done most of the major work installing trigger wheel, sensors etc if you wish to use an alternate ecu? The greatest benefit you will get out of a mappable ecu is the access to diagnostics, along with the ignition side IMHO.
There is also a big danger that we are becoming less standardized for support of problems. Not only are there a plethora of ecu's available, but they are all capable of supporting a multitude of sensors, methods of operation, and accessories.. I still have doubts as to whether this is a good thing in the long run, fine for the few who have always accepted 'customization' but it seems to be becoming a mainstream event
One thing I am very disappointed with Mark (hope you are listening) is that in a discussion some time ago (surprising how many times Google throws it up - your grammar has got loads better BTW Mike) he advocated GEMS conversions. It is a pity he didn't see this thru, as a adopting a mainstream ecu & mapped ignition to TVR would have been a very positive alternative IMHO.
Dave
A lot of relatively inexpensive work renewing consumables like bushes, UJs, BJ's, TRE's... coupled with decent dampers and springs (preferably not the barge versions
) followed by a good geo setup is probably the best starting point. I am assuming the earlier poster was referring to rose jointed ARB drop links, dampers with bearings are a nice, just get the best you can afford (the better ones can make do without the rubber). Brakes can be done within a reasonable cost, but if you can afford carbon triple throttle stuff, then AP's should be a must.Whilst MA had pretty much cornered the market on the higher power motors a while ago, the situation has changed somewhat. Gradually more V8'sters are moving to alternate ECUs, the major benefit being that they can get mapped ignition at the same time. It probably does take longer than an MA session, but an MA session & getting him to fit a mapped ignition would probably cost a lot more (money & time).
Alt ECU prices are falling continually, remember it is not just the cost of the ECU, it is mainly the coilpacks, trig wheels & sensors that are falling. For most people it seems that the simple ECU's are well up to the job, sometimes the lack of complexity is a boon to the DIY sector as apart from less complicated wiring it is also easier to map. I don't think there is any problem with this, you will always be able to upgrade the ecu later if you wish the 2nd market in ecus is very buoyant
You will have also done most of the major work installing trigger wheel, sensors etc if you wish to use an alternate ecu? The greatest benefit you will get out of a mappable ecu is the access to diagnostics, along with the ignition side IMHO.There is also a big danger that we are becoming less standardized for support of problems. Not only are there a plethora of ecu's available, but they are all capable of supporting a multitude of sensors, methods of operation, and accessories.. I still have doubts as to whether this is a good thing in the long run, fine for the few who have always accepted 'customization' but it seems to be becoming a mainstream event
One thing I am very disappointed with Mark (hope you are listening) is that in a discussion some time ago (surprising how many times Google throws it up - your grammar has got loads better BTW Mike
) he advocated GEMS conversions. It is a pity he didn't see this thru, as a adopting a mainstream ecu & mapped ignition to TVR would have been a very positive alternative IMHO.Dave
David Beer said:
For me, i wish i had never tried to "upgrade", others have had good times,lets hear them ! Just wish i had the 10k back, just to say the first 4k was supposed to do it, the rest was to put it right, still crap.
Hi Dave and a Happy New year to you.Now your sad story was one of the main reasons i went down the route i took
Chin up mate
Pasco
Edit to say my 350 BHP cost me no more than 5k
Sorry Dave me old chum
Edited by Pasco on Saturday 12th January 20:13
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