Engine Out or Heads off. Which is easier / quicker?

[BIG DUNC]

Car is a '92 pre-cat pre-serp.
I took the manifolds off today ( been putting it off for ages ), and on each side, the rear most lower bolt sheared off flush with the head. BUGGER BUGGER!!!!!!!

Unless anyone tells me its possible, i am not even going to try and drill them out in situ.

So, do I take the heads off, or the engine out? Which is quicker, which is easier?

Taking the engine out will have three advantages. I won't have to disturb the head gaskets on an engine which I know does not over heat and does not loose water. I won't have to buy a head gasket set. I will be able to get good access to touch up the paint round that area of the chassis.

Having said that, if taking the engine out is more work / going to take longer, then I will just do the heads. Any comments?

[spend]

I'd take the heads off...

If there is enough bolt left getting a nut welded on may work (the heat also helps loosen the stud IMHO) - this may be possible in situ?

Dave

[BIG DUNC]

Thanks for the quick reply.
One is perfectly flush, the other is about 1 thread recessed. No chance of welding. Good suggestion though.
Is it much work doing the heads, or just unbolt everything? Is there a manual for this engine I could download from somehere?

[spend]

Manuals are downloadable from an Estonian site, search 'LR manuals ee' IIRC. Its pretty straightforward as long as you release the pressure in the fuel rail, and use the torque pattern to loosen off the heads.. We all probably have slightly different ways of draining things etc...

Dave

[Boosted LS1]

Like Dave says, heads off would be simpler. Also, once a bolt has sheared it's no longer under any real tension as such so you may be lucky when it comes to extracting them. If you doubt your abilities take the heads to an engineering firm as they will have some special bits of kit for removing studs.

Boosted.

[pwd95]

Great forum here for V8 stuff....

http://www.v-8.org.uk/forum/index.php

[BIG DUNC]

Heads off it is then.

[Bonefish]

you can often get a sheared stud to loosen by giving it a whack using a centre punch. I.e. hit it near the edge, at an angle so as to undo the stud.

If your confident in your ability, and it won't budge then you ought to be able to drill it out/ remove it. As it's only a manifold stud, you can always put a helicoil in the head if you bugger the thread up.

[BIG DUNC]

The trouble is, there is about an inch gap ( maybe inch and a half, max ) between the sheared off studs and the inner wing. I was thinking I should buy a 90deg drill, but I am sure there still not be room to get it in there.

[spend]

The studs are mild steel & the heads are alloy. The heads are also probably the most expensive bit of your engine.. If you have not got good experience of removing broken studs it is much safer to take it to an engineering firm who has IMHO

Dave

[BIG DUNC]

spend said:

The studs are mild steel & the heads are alloy. The heads are also probably the most expensive bit of your engine.. If you have not got good experience of removing broken studs it is much safer to take it to an engineering firm who has IMHO

Dave

Dave, I agree. If I take them off ( which I think I will ) I will get them skimmed, or at least checked for flatness. If they are down at the workshop anyway, I will ask them to take the studs out.

I am just a bit cheased off about it. The bolt heads looked a little sorry for them selfs, and I was paronoid about rounding them off. I didn't expect them to break.

[spend]

You should have let Big Dunc do the job - he might have been a little more careful

Just bite the bullet, do a little head refurb... stick in a plenum insulator, maybe have your throttle enlarged... and you come out a winner. Its just a pain setting the clearances (give me solids any time - please ((effin santa never listens!)))

Dave

[griffter]

Warning:

I'm in the same boat. Head bolt sheared off when removing manifolds. It's cost me dear because I thought it was the perfect excuse for a BV upgrade!!

Seriously thought not all head gaskets are the same. Mine are copper composite as the heads have a wire ring around the combustion chamber to increase sealing pressure around the combustion chamber against the head gasket. Finding replacements is proving less than straightforward. (Anyone got any ideas?).

Having said that I wouldn't ake the whole engine out just to avoid taking the heads off...

[spend]

I think it was CRE or DJE that had some copper gaskets recently?

Dave

[BIG DUNC]

That was going to be my next two questions.
Who sells the best quality head gaskets?
If the heads are off anyway, is there anything else that its worth having a look at or check?

I am not really in the position to start spending thousands on upgrades ( much as I would like to ), but if anything is showing signs of wear it makes sense to do it while the heads are off......

[griffter]

spend said:

I think it was CRE or DJE that had some copper gaskets recently?

Dave

I've sourced all copper gaskets thanks Dave, but the originals are composite, with a copper ring around the combustion chamber. The only composites I've found so far have a steel ring.

CRE sell all copper, but I'll give DJE a ring.

[spend]

Sorry Ben, I didn't pick up on that! Surprised you have the thicker gaskets... I read wrongly in the assumption you would have the older style heads originally

Dave

[BIG DUNC]

So do I take it that whatever material the original gaskets are, the replacements must be the same?

[pwd95]

BIG DUNC said:

So do I take it that whatever material the original gaskets are, the replacements must be the same?

& if you have the heads skimmed check the pre-load on the followers are still whithin tollerance.

http://www.v-8.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2376&a...

[BIG DUNC]

I think I really need to look at a manual and / or talk to an expert before I go too much further.

Still, plenty of other jobs to be getting on with.....