Oil level with Quaife in a BTR case
Discussion
Now have a Quaife ATB fitted in the BTR diff. Perhaps imprudently I put the oil in with the Dif on the bench and then fitted it in the car. Today I used it in anger for the first time and it appears to be loosing a fair bit from the breather, at least I hope that is where it is coming from . It is wet on the bradther side and round the breather itself.
Question is for those of you that have the ATB have you found the normal fill level to be correct ? I am wondering if the ATB thrashes about a bit more and is happy with slightly less oil. It is possible that it was overfilled but I did try to replicate the fitted orientation when filling.
Question is for those of you that have the ATB have you found the normal fill level to be correct ? I am wondering if the ATB thrashes about a bit more and is happy with slightly less oil. It is possible that it was overfilled but I did try to replicate the fitted orientation when filling.
steve-V8s said:
Yes he suggested fitting a pipe on the breather and a catch tank and commented that the BTRs are known for “snotting” out of the breather, obviously snotting is a transmission technical term. I am about to get under and recheck the level with the Diff in the car.
We really should adopt that highly technical term, I do rather like it.. Mines a GKN, but it too snots out when used properly 
So you fitted a breather pipe and no catch tank?
Dave
I fitted a breather tube to my BTR, details and pics in this thread.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
The oil level where it stopped leaking was too low for comfort imo
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
The oil level where it stopped leaking was too low for comfort imo
I have a Quaife atb in a Salisbury casing and it would empty rapidly even with a three foot pipe on the breather.It seems the Quaife casting is designed to chuck as much oil about as possible.
So after much sodding about I fitted a plastic fuel type filter with three 10mm i.d pipes on it,two at the top one at the bottom,clamped up above a driveshaft.
(been in my stores for years,I knew it would be handy one day!)
the pipe from the diff breather goes on to the bottom of the filter.
then I took a pipe from the lower of the upper two filter outlets and ran this back to the diff with a bit of 8mm steel fuel pipe through the cover/backplate with the end inside turned down wards. then I have a two foot pipe open at the end cable tied up to the chassis,connected to the upper of the two outlets on the filter.
now it fills up to the lower of the two outlets and runs back to the diff leaving the gases built up to escape out of the top outlet,it gets a bit frothy but seems to work.
So after much sodding about I fitted a plastic fuel type filter with three 10mm i.d pipes on it,two at the top one at the bottom,clamped up above a driveshaft.
(been in my stores for years,I knew it would be handy one day!)
the pipe from the diff breather goes on to the bottom of the filter.
then I took a pipe from the lower of the upper two filter outlets and ran this back to the diff with a bit of 8mm steel fuel pipe through the cover/backplate with the end inside turned down wards. then I have a two foot pipe open at the end cable tied up to the chassis,connected to the upper of the two outlets on the filter.
now it fills up to the lower of the two outlets and runs back to the diff leaving the gases built up to escape out of the top outlet,it gets a bit frothy but seems to work.
Think I understand roughly what you are describing, basically you are allowing the Diff to throw out the oil, pass it via a filter which presumably has a go at separating the oil and air, you then put the oil back in the diff and let the air escape, sounds a bit like the air valve on a closed loop heating system. Does your arrangement have a non return valve like the original breather or is it open ?
I spent a few hours trying to get a pipe on a fitting screwed in the breather hole with the diff still in the car and eventually gave up and put the breather back. I am now on a quest to find a banjo type fitting and was planning to simply run a pipe with the original non return valve on the end as described by others, the only thing I plan to add is a small catch tank to contain anything that does get ejected.
I can understand why the Diff needs a breather, presumably as the oil heats it expands and the breather releases the pressure rather than challenging the oil seals. I guess this is what is happening as after it has cooled there is a vacuum inside. You would think that if the vacuum remains there would be room for the oil to expand again next time without breathing.
One point I did wonder about but haven’t yet proved is the breather pressure setting I have two original plate Diffs in addition to the Quaife one and have had both of them in the car at one point, one of them did dribble a bit of oil and the other was dry, on investigation it is obvious that the breather opening pressure is a lot lower on the one that dribbled. I have not tried the car yet but have crimped the cap a little to increase the relief pressure.
The oil, on advice from Quaife is now a lot thinner so perhaps that is not helping the situation. Think I will call Quafe again and see if the ATB would be happy with a thicker oil, something closer to the original spec.
I spent a few hours trying to get a pipe on a fitting screwed in the breather hole with the diff still in the car and eventually gave up and put the breather back. I am now on a quest to find a banjo type fitting and was planning to simply run a pipe with the original non return valve on the end as described by others, the only thing I plan to add is a small catch tank to contain anything that does get ejected.
I can understand why the Diff needs a breather, presumably as the oil heats it expands and the breather releases the pressure rather than challenging the oil seals. I guess this is what is happening as after it has cooled there is a vacuum inside. You would think that if the vacuum remains there would be room for the oil to expand again next time without breathing.
One point I did wonder about but haven’t yet proved is the breather pressure setting I have two original plate Diffs in addition to the Quaife one and have had both of them in the car at one point, one of them did dribble a bit of oil and the other was dry, on investigation it is obvious that the breather opening pressure is a lot lower on the one that dribbled. I have not tried the car yet but have crimped the cap a little to increase the relief pressure.
The oil, on advice from Quaife is now a lot thinner so perhaps that is not helping the situation. Think I will call Quafe again and see if the ATB would be happy with a thicker oil, something closer to the original spec.
I wonder if this was my diff leak ??? I would say it was more a case of splashes rather than a mist the oil had plainly come out of the breather and run directly down the casing. If it was misting I would expect the general area and all over the diff casing to be covered. Maybe the ATB throws the oil about a bit more and presumably if the breather tube is full of oil when it decides to breath out then that must be at least 1 or 2ml of oil ejected.
I am in the process of making a fitting to take 6mm polyurethane pipe and was thinking exactly that. Maybe come up a foot or so into the boot with the original breather on the top in a small catch tank. I begin however to think that the problem is the oil I have put in (to be fair the oil I was advised to put in ). With the original plate Diff I used Millers 80/140 anti shock which was rather thick and probably wouldn’t have come out the breather if the car was inverted. Advice from informed people said that with the ATB I was better off using a standard 75/90 synthetic. As I understand it there is little difference between the casing of the ATB and the original arrangement and it is primarily the crown wheel that splashes the oil about. As it didn’t leak with the original oil but does now methinks drain out the 75/90 and stick in some goo back in.
Any comments on that ?
Any comments on that ?
steve-V8s said:
I am in the process of making a fitting to take 6mm polyurethane pipe and was thinking exactly that. Maybe come up a foot or so into the boot with the original breather on the top in a small catch tank. I begin however to think that the problem is the oil I have put in (to be fair the oil I was advised to put in ). With the original plate Diff I used Millers 80/140 anti shock which was rather thick and probably wouldn’t have come out the breather if the car was inverted. Advice from informed people said that with the ATB I was better off using a standard 75/90 synthetic. As I understand it there is little difference between the casing of the ATB and the original arrangement and it is primarily the crown wheel that splashes the oil about. As it didn’t leak with the original oil but does now methinks drain out the 75/90 and stick in some goo back in.
Any comments on that ?
I think even the thicker oil will get warmed and splashed by the gears just about as much.. I don't think 6mm pipe is wide enough, if a bubble forms in the pipe it will be kind of ejected like a cannonball. If the pipe is bigger a droplet will form on the inside of the pipe (and be more likely to run back into the diff) but air can still pass. I would think it only needs a small length of higher diameter tube inserting in your vent pipe close to the diff to act as a collector/separator? ( but I'm a skint northerner who would baulk at wasting the vital fluid Any comments on that ?
)Dave
As suggested by others I have now fitted a length of pipe to the breather hole and put the breather valve at the end. I come out of the Diff in 6mm pipe for 25mm and then go to a 10cm length of 15mm pipe. So far (about 40 miles) all is dry.
Chickened out on the test day as it coincided with three inches of snow so can’t report what it is like on the track yet. However have now tried it on the road, dry, wet and very wet. I was wondering if I would find that powering out of corners would suffer extra under or over steer but so far haven’t noticed any new undesirable traits. It is noticeable that pulling away on very wet or damp roads is now done with a lot less fuss, my guess is that it spins both wheels equally rather than spinning the one with least grip as before. Obviously haven’t found the limit yet on the road but it does seem possible to get on the power out of corners quite early without any drama, I have not been aware of the twitching some people have reported, so far it is thumbs up
Chickened out on the test day as it coincided with three inches of snow so can’t report what it is like on the track yet. However have now tried it on the road, dry, wet and very wet. I was wondering if I would find that powering out of corners would suffer extra under or over steer but so far haven’t noticed any new undesirable traits. It is noticeable that pulling away on very wet or damp roads is now done with a lot less fuss, my guess is that it spins both wheels equally rather than spinning the one with least grip as before. Obviously haven’t found the limit yet on the road but it does seem possible to get on the power out of corners quite early without any drama, I have not been aware of the twitching some people have reported, so far it is thumbs up
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