Smell and similar manifold problem as Barreti?
Discussion
Hi need some advice on my precat. I had a strong acid smell after a long trip recently. After some PH searches I discovered this thread http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
I have the same ACT manifolds and on the driver side they nearly touch the heatshield. On the driver side there is much more room. Looking in front of the engine bay it looks like the driver side of the engine is lower/sacked. I am wondering now if it's just a worn engine mount or that I have to go through the same route as Baretti went through modifying the inner sills? Are there any other (precat) owners which did not have to make this (difficult) modification?
Thanks,
Peter
I have the same ACT manifolds and on the driver side they nearly touch the heatshield. On the driver side there is much more room. Looking in front of the engine bay it looks like the driver side of the engine is lower/sacked. I am wondering now if it's just a worn engine mount or that I have to go through the same route as Baretti went through modifying the inner sills? Are there any other (precat) owners which did not have to make this (difficult) modification?
Thanks,
Peter
Sorry chaps.Don't know whats going wrong. I hope I haven't offended anyone.
When I've turned my pants inside out, then back to front, and they are yellow on all four sides I change them and have a wash. And when my socks stand up like wellingtons I change them too.
Am I missing something?
When I've turned my pants inside out, then back to front, and they are yellow on all four sides I change them and have a wash. And when my socks stand up like wellingtons I change them too.
Am I missing something?
Peter66
The modified inner wing was done at the dealers I was told. And you can see the way it was done in one of the photos I posted. So its possible some cut the hole a bit more generous than others.
If you've got that acrid smell I had you have my sympathy and its probable your heatshield is compromised in some way. Can you get your hand down there to tell?
Or shove a bit of tin foil down there, and mould it in, then rev the engine and see if it gets damaged.
I agree that if your engine looks lopsided there is something wrong. The engine mount is a simple thing to change so its worth doing if you even suspect that is the problem.
The modified inner wing was done at the dealers I was told. And you can see the way it was done in one of the photos I posted. So its possible some cut the hole a bit more generous than others.
If you've got that acrid smell I had you have my sympathy and its probable your heatshield is compromised in some way. Can you get your hand down there to tell?
Or shove a bit of tin foil down there, and mould it in, then rev the engine and see if it gets damaged.
I agree that if your engine looks lopsided there is something wrong. The engine mount is a simple thing to change so its worth doing if you even suspect that is the problem.
Thanks for all the (
)responses!
I just measured everything up. It's defintely hanging to the driver side. The manifold has a clearance difference of 2 cms between the left and right side of the Y-piece. So it looks I need new mounts.
Barreti I can not put my hands between on the driver side. A lot more space on the other side.
Question can one move the engine out of the center? E.g. a bit more to the driver than the passenger side by mounting the brackets different? Or will it automatically get right with new mounts?
Thanks,
Peter
Ps. Love my alloys Anthony. Too bad they don't make them anymore.
)responses!I just measured everything up. It's defintely hanging to the driver side. The manifold has a clearance difference of 2 cms between the left and right side of the Y-piece. So it looks I need new mounts.
Barreti I can not put my hands between on the driver side. A lot more space on the other side.
Question can one move the engine out of the center? E.g. a bit more to the driver than the passenger side by mounting the brackets different? Or will it automatically get right with new mounts?
Thanks,
Peter
Ps. Love my alloys Anthony. Too bad they don't make them anymore.
I've just had aftermarket ss manifolds fitted and sure enought they're tighter on the n/s. However, this is definitely due to the different shaped inner wing on that side (perhaps to make room for the battery/fuse box?). Looking at the engine block to top chassis rail clearance on either side should give you an idea of the placement of the engine, and mine's pretty much central - certainly no bias towards the n/s.
That said, I did notice that the engine mount to chassis bolt holes are slightly elongated, so I loosened these either side to try to 'shift' the engine at all to the o/s (I loosened the exhaust/transmission mounts and supported the engine on a jack). Not a gnat's whisker. I suspect the holes are elongated to facilitate fitment, not adjustment.
While they were being fitted I asked the mechanic to lay foil tape over the inner wing heat shields in to enhance their reflectivity. He also lightly 'dressed' the manifold in the vicinity of the narrow clearance. I have not suffered any of the 'Barreti symptoms' yet, but being a cautious sort of a fellow wanted to take all possible steps to avoid embarrassing smells. I intend to use heat wrap to the manifolds as belt and braces.
So in short:
Engine mounts don't seem to allow engine position adjustment.
I think you can avoid the need to surgery your inner wing by dressing the manifold in the affected area, making sure your inner wing heat shield is in good shape, and using heat wrap.
That said, I did notice that the engine mount to chassis bolt holes are slightly elongated, so I loosened these either side to try to 'shift' the engine at all to the o/s (I loosened the exhaust/transmission mounts and supported the engine on a jack). Not a gnat's whisker. I suspect the holes are elongated to facilitate fitment, not adjustment.
While they were being fitted I asked the mechanic to lay foil tape over the inner wing heat shields in to enhance their reflectivity. He also lightly 'dressed' the manifold in the vicinity of the narrow clearance. I have not suffered any of the 'Barreti symptoms' yet, but being a cautious sort of a fellow wanted to take all possible steps to avoid embarrassing smells. I intend to use heat wrap to the manifolds as belt and braces.
So in short:
Engine mounts don't seem to allow engine position adjustment.
I think you can avoid the need to surgery your inner wing by dressing the manifold in the affected area, making sure your inner wing heat shield is in good shape, and using heat wrap.
Took my manifolds off today to replace my manifold gaskets and inner wing heat shields, I had the very same problem when I fitted the J.P maanifolds passanger side very close to inner wing and has compromised the heat shielding which I am having to replace for the third time. However with the manifolds off the engine mounts were in poor condition so I am hopeful by replacing the engine mounts the clearance will improve. Will post outcome.
As well as the mounts I removed the steel brackets bolted to the block (cleaned up and re-painted) then fastened the new mounts to the brackets first and then loosely bolted this assembly back onto the block and chassis. To get all the bolts in I had to play around with the engine jack, but once all in and nipped up it re-aligned its self.
Cheers,
Simon.
Cheers,
Simon.
Thanks for all your feedback.
Checked today and the driver side engine mount is torn. You only notice it when you put a jack under the engine. I am now thinking about replacing both, because I need to replace the manifold gasket on the other side as well. And while I am at it I will replace the heatshield material as well. (And so the job gets bigger and bigger
)
I have the following questions:
1.Do I need to replace any burned fibreglass as I read in some other threads?
2.Can I remove the bracket together with the engine mount or do they need to come off seperate?
3.Should I use the SC-power protective brackets?
4.Where did you put the jack under the engine? I read that it was not good to put it under the sump, but can not see enough space to put a wooden plate with the jack under?
5.Any advice on the heatshield material? Is there a special brandname for it?
Cheers,
Peter
Checked today and the driver side engine mount is torn. You only notice it when you put a jack under the engine. I am now thinking about replacing both, because I need to replace the manifold gasket on the other side as well. And while I am at it I will replace the heatshield material as well. (And so the job gets bigger and bigger
)I have the following questions:
1.Do I need to replace any burned fibreglass as I read in some other threads?
2.Can I remove the bracket together with the engine mount or do they need to come off seperate?
3.Should I use the SC-power protective brackets?
4.Where did you put the jack under the engine? I read that it was not good to put it under the sump, but can not see enough space to put a wooden plate with the jack under?
5.Any advice on the heatshield material? Is there a special brandname for it?
Cheers,
Peter
Peter66 said:
1.Do I need to replace any burned fibreglass as I read in some other threads?
2.Can I remove the bracket together with the engine mount or do they need to come off seperate?
3.Should I use the SC-power protective brackets?
4.Where did you put the jack under the engine? I read that it was not good to put it under the sump, but can not see enough space to put a wooden plate with the jack under?
5.Any advice on the heatshield material? Is there a special brandname for it?
1. It's not structural, so not necessarily. Depends how badly burned it is, and whether or not it concerns you.2.Can I remove the bracket together with the engine mount or do they need to come off seperate?
3.Should I use the SC-power protective brackets?
4.Where did you put the jack under the engine? I read that it was not good to put it under the sump, but can not see enough space to put a wooden plate with the jack under?
5.Any advice on the heatshield material? Is there a special brandname for it?
2. You can do the engine mounts without removing the brackets, BUT I couldn't get a spanner on the engine mount to bracket nuts. I think these are 17mm, but on the driver's side the oil pressure sender was in the way. On the passenger side the expansion tank was in the way. I don't know if the 5 litres have this problem (different oil pump and different expansion tank) - I've not read of these access issues. Think I would have done better with crank spanners (or whatever they're called). Luckily my original Metzler engine mounts are still in good nick, so I didn't persevere. What you DO NOT WANT TO DO is shear one of the bracket to engine block bolts. If you do this you could be looking at taking the engine out to get the hole drilled and tapped. Proceed with care!
3. Could do - there are different support brackets for Metzler (original) and 'non-bumpy' aftermarket brackets. By the right ones!
4. I used sufficient wood to get the jack to lift on both the sump and the gear box. If the car is on axle stands already you can get the jack and wood under. Surely you'll have the wheels off to do the engine mounts? So the car probably is on stands.
5. Agriemach sell suitable. Otherwise, if the glass fibre matt is OK, but just the foil has come away, you can repair with sticky foil tape.
I have posted this before but....
After reading threads on here, I bought a set of ratchet spanners which I did use a bit but didn’t actually need. I removed the engine block brackets with the mounts still attached, as the lower nut on each mount block was too close the bracket and the spanners would not go on. This didn’t matter as the brackets were looking tatty so I treated them to a good clean and a coat of silver Hammerite.
Car up on axle stands, wheels off and trolley jack under the sump with a 2” thick block of wood with 1” thick piece of high density foam to level it off. All access was from the wheel arches both side, with the exception of the 100 amp fuse holder which was removed first from the drivers side mount bracket (don’t forget one side of this is live).
My problem was the smaller 13mm bolt, the top of the three on the bracket to the block. Drivers side I could get a spanner on (new ratchet), but passenger side there is lump of aluminium in the way (part of the block casting that hasn’t been machined off and access from below on this side is also blocked by the exhaust). To remove and refit this bolt I used a 3/8 drive socket with a jointed coupling on a long extension to get through the gap between the top chassis rail and the exhaust manifold, a 1/2 drive is too big. I removed the two chassis side bolts into the mounts first and then adjusted the height of the engine on the jack to line up this bolt with the gap.
The other two bracket bolts came out with standard 1/2 U/J drive and extension, none of bolts these were very tight.
Reassembly needed some trial fits to work out where on the brackets the mounts needed to be, as all the holes in the brackets are quite big and allow a surprising amount of movement of both the mounts to bracket and bracket to block.
The new mounts I bought were from TVR parts and where not identical to the ones I removed, the originals have bumps of extra rubber on the ends and the new ones are flush. The old ones had hardened a bit and were visibly cracking, they’ve done 47K over 11 years. I did not fit the new additonal support brackets.
Cheers,
Simon.
After reading threads on here, I bought a set of ratchet spanners which I did use a bit but didn’t actually need. I removed the engine block brackets with the mounts still attached, as the lower nut on each mount block was too close the bracket and the spanners would not go on. This didn’t matter as the brackets were looking tatty so I treated them to a good clean and a coat of silver Hammerite.
Car up on axle stands, wheels off and trolley jack under the sump with a 2” thick block of wood with 1” thick piece of high density foam to level it off. All access was from the wheel arches both side, with the exception of the 100 amp fuse holder which was removed first from the drivers side mount bracket (don’t forget one side of this is live).
My problem was the smaller 13mm bolt, the top of the three on the bracket to the block. Drivers side I could get a spanner on (new ratchet), but passenger side there is lump of aluminium in the way (part of the block casting that hasn’t been machined off and access from below on this side is also blocked by the exhaust). To remove and refit this bolt I used a 3/8 drive socket with a jointed coupling on a long extension to get through the gap between the top chassis rail and the exhaust manifold, a 1/2 drive is too big. I removed the two chassis side bolts into the mounts first and then adjusted the height of the engine on the jack to line up this bolt with the gap.
The other two bracket bolts came out with standard 1/2 U/J drive and extension, none of bolts these were very tight.
Reassembly needed some trial fits to work out where on the brackets the mounts needed to be, as all the holes in the brackets are quite big and allow a surprising amount of movement of both the mounts to bracket and bracket to block.
The new mounts I bought were from TVR parts and where not identical to the ones I removed, the originals have bumps of extra rubber on the ends and the new ones are flush. The old ones had hardened a bit and were visibly cracking, they’ve done 47K over 11 years. I did not fit the new additonal support brackets.
Cheers,
Simon.
The mounts and brackets have arrived and indeed the driver side one was torn. I have a question about the spacer plate. Do I need to put it outside the bracket or inside? Interestingly my 4.3 also had a spacer on the passenger side. Just like Barreti. I wonder if the clearance becomes worse if I replace it with the new bracket without using the old spacer. I got one new one with the brackets and according to the posts I should also only need one?
Thanks,
Peter
Thanks,
Peter
Yes Barreti,
That's the one! I have one of these plates on each side at the moment. There was one thinner plate delivered with the new brackets. I presume that the thichkness of the bracket plus this thinner plate is the same as the original plate. I wonder now if I should fit it inside or outside the bracket and get another similar one for the other side as well or try that side without the plate (as recommended on the SC Power side). I suspect that leaving it out the engine will sit lower, which could be bad for manifold clearance. It's difficult to predict and I probably need to try and see how it works out.
I will leave that side for now, because that mount is still in good shape. I will combine it with the exhaust gasket job and enjoy driving the car with the current nice weather.
Peter
That's the one! I have one of these plates on each side at the moment. There was one thinner plate delivered with the new brackets. I presume that the thichkness of the bracket plus this thinner plate is the same as the original plate. I wonder now if I should fit it inside or outside the bracket and get another similar one for the other side as well or try that side without the plate (as recommended on the SC Power side). I suspect that leaving it out the engine will sit lower, which could be bad for manifold clearance. It's difficult to predict and I probably need to try and see how it works out.
I will leave that side for now, because that mount is still in good shape. I will combine it with the exhaust gasket job and enjoy driving the car with the current nice weather.
Peter
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