Unusual Griff Problem
Discussion
Here's one I imagine someone knows the very simple answer to as soon as they read this.
Recently my 94 pre serp 500 has cut out on me about half a dozen times. Here's what happens. It looses spark, and on the odd time it's happened it's always after it's just fired and run fine for a matter of seconds or a minute or two, then it instantly cuts out. Now here's the thing that might make the fault obvious to someone who recognises this fix. If I undo the multi plug connector from the dizzy, then plug it straight back in, hey presto, good to go and no further problem.
One more aspect towards this. When it has happened the first couple of times, I've removed every fuse and all relays and unplugged the ECU and unplugged the alarm ECU, and checked for spark at every step. Nothing will bring the spark back except for simply unplugging and reconnecting that multi plug on the dizzy - and that's on separate occasions after I first tried the fuse, relay, ECU disconnects, which I no longer have to do as I've isolated doing so as making no difference. So in other words, nothing makes the spark return except for unplugging the dizzy momentarily.
Anyone know what's going on?
TIA
Recently my 94 pre serp 500 has cut out on me about half a dozen times. Here's what happens. It looses spark, and on the odd time it's happened it's always after it's just fired and run fine for a matter of seconds or a minute or two, then it instantly cuts out. Now here's the thing that might make the fault obvious to someone who recognises this fix. If I undo the multi plug connector from the dizzy, then plug it straight back in, hey presto, good to go and no further problem.
One more aspect towards this. When it has happened the first couple of times, I've removed every fuse and all relays and unplugged the ECU and unplugged the alarm ECU, and checked for spark at every step. Nothing will bring the spark back except for simply unplugging and reconnecting that multi plug on the dizzy - and that's on separate occasions after I first tried the fuse, relay, ECU disconnects, which I no longer have to do as I've isolated doing so as making no difference. So in other words, nothing makes the spark return except for unplugging the dizzy momentarily.
Anyone know what's going on?
TIA
Not a bad connection or loose wire. I am a technician so I'm not without at least half a brain 
The only thing that will return the spark once it's lost, is unplugging the multi plug connector on the side of the distributor, then putting it back on again. After much fiddling and wiggling, the relationship to making the spark is in the disconnection and reconnection of the plug. It is not to do with a poor connection or dodgy wire at the plug. Something else is going on, which is why I believe someone might know exactly what this is. Please, if you don't know, I don't require suggestions or guesses, but thank you anyway. That's not meant to be arrogant or ungrateful. I believe there is something 'electronic' happening and I am in search of which component is at fault. And yes I had considered the Hall, and still am, but not for a loose or dodgy connect.
Thank you again.
The only thing that will return the spark once it's lost, is unplugging the multi plug connector on the side of the distributor, then putting it back on again. After much fiddling and wiggling, the relationship to making the spark is in the disconnection and reconnection of the plug. It is not to do with a poor connection or dodgy wire at the plug. Something else is going on, which is why I believe someone might know exactly what this is. Please, if you don't know, I don't require suggestions or guesses, but thank you anyway. That's not meant to be arrogant or ungrateful. I believe there is something 'electronic' happening and I am in search of which component is at fault. And yes I had considered the Hall, and still am, but not for a loose or dodgy connect.
Thank you again.
At the risk of making an unwanted suggestion or guess....
When I first got my Griff a couple of years ago there were two or three occasions when I'd driven it to work OK, left it parked all day, and been unable to start it in the evening. The fuel pump energised and the starter motor turned the engine over OK, but it would not fire.
The first couple of times it happened I fiddled around with all of the connectors to the coil and it started OK. The third time it just would not start so I called out a recovery service. He did a few checks and concluded that the ignition amp was faulty because there was no spark. He was about to load my car on to the truck when I decided to try and start it one more time - and it fired up OK.
Rather than just buy a new amp module I decided to remove the coil and amp module to clean everything up. At that point I discovered the on one of the wires leading to the ignition module the insulation had worn completely through where it had been rubbing on an unused mounting bracket on the fuel rail. I insulated the wire with tape, and bent the offending bracket to give more clearance to the amp module, the problem has never re-occurred.
My theory is that the wire was shorting intermittently. Perhaps the heat from the engine, when I parked the car, was enough to cause the wire to sag a little and touch the bracket.
I hope that might give you some fresh ideas on what to look for.
When I first got my Griff a couple of years ago there were two or three occasions when I'd driven it to work OK, left it parked all day, and been unable to start it in the evening. The fuel pump energised and the starter motor turned the engine over OK, but it would not fire.
The first couple of times it happened I fiddled around with all of the connectors to the coil and it started OK. The third time it just would not start so I called out a recovery service. He did a few checks and concluded that the ignition amp was faulty because there was no spark. He was about to load my car on to the truck when I decided to try and start it one more time - and it fired up OK.
Rather than just buy a new amp module I decided to remove the coil and amp module to clean everything up. At that point I discovered the on one of the wires leading to the ignition module the insulation had worn completely through where it had been rubbing on an unused mounting bracket on the fuel rail. I insulated the wire with tape, and bent the offending bracket to give more clearance to the amp module, the problem has never re-occurred.
My theory is that the wire was shorting intermittently. Perhaps the heat from the engine, when I parked the car, was enough to cause the wire to sag a little and touch the bracket.
I hope that might give you some fresh ideas on what to look for.
Riding God said:
Not a bad connection or loose wire. I am a technician so I'm not without at least half a brain
So is your Ignition amp on the dizzy or by the coil. If you were so competent you might have described it in your original question, as well as the fact that you had stripped the dizzy to check the wires inside which posters have been talking about....And so we delve into what's become the norm for Piston Heads - the 'I'm smarter than you insult class'.
Of course I've checked the obvious. I would believe, based on many years experience of ign amps breaking down on other vehicles, the amp is at fault. Though I'm baffled as to why a solid state piece of kit relies upon being disconnected and reconnected to make it work again on the handful of occasions it has failed. This is why I asked here in case someone, hopefully a TVR mechanic, would pinpoint instantly a problem they recognised.
What I was politely not asking for was a lecture in motor vehicle electronics and Hall effect ignition systems. Put it another way. I was trying to avoid wasting peoples time, including my own. Which makes me wonder. Why are you wasting yours trying to make me sound stupid? Easy to be a smart arse on the Internet isn't it.
Of course I've checked the obvious. I would believe, based on many years experience of ign amps breaking down on other vehicles, the amp is at fault. Though I'm baffled as to why a solid state piece of kit relies upon being disconnected and reconnected to make it work again on the handful of occasions it has failed. This is why I asked here in case someone, hopefully a TVR mechanic, would pinpoint instantly a problem they recognised.
What I was politely not asking for was a lecture in motor vehicle electronics and Hall effect ignition systems. Put it another way. I was trying to avoid wasting peoples time, including my own. Which makes me wonder. Why are you wasting yours trying to make me sound stupid? Easy to be a smart arse on the Internet isn't it.
Riding God said:
Of course I've checked the obvious.
A great many people asking for help here haven't (or have differing opinions about what is 'obvious'). Help us help you by telling us exactly what you have done. You seem to be confidently ruling out the most obvious cause - poor connection or damaged wiring. What have you done to prove that the wiring and connections are sound?Riding God said:
Though I'm baffled as to why a solid state piece of kit relies upon being disconnected and reconnected to make it work again on the handful of occasions it has failed.
I should have said that with the problem I described it was the disconnection/re-connection of the wires to the ignition module that moved the wire which was shorting, thereby eliminating the short and allowing the car to start. Everything a competent tech would do was the message I was trying (poorly it seems) to convey.
I was just hoping for a definitive answer to a straightforward question, perhaps from someone who recognised the fault without the need to scrutinise my efforts making me write a 5000 word essay.
No worries. I guess I shot myself in the foot trying to keep things simple.
I was just hoping for a definitive answer to a straightforward question, perhaps from someone who recognised the fault without the need to scrutinise my efforts making me write a 5000 word essay.
No worries. I guess I shot myself in the foot trying to keep things simple.
DarkMatter said:
I should have said that with the problem I described it was the disconnection/re-connection of the wires to the ignition module that moved the wire which was shorting, thereby eliminating the short and allowing the car to start.
Well, if that turns out to be the case with mine, then I've definitely missed that one, so I will check very carefully again.Thank you. It really is appreciated.
Riding God said:
Everything a competent tech would do was the message I was trying (poorly it seems) to convey.
I was just hoping for a definitive answer to a straightforward question, perhaps from someone who recognised the fault without the need to scrutinise my efforts making me write a 5000 word essay.
No worries. I guess I shot myself in the foot trying to keep things simple.
The ignition pickup and amplifier are relatively simple electronically speaking, they aren't powered up when the ignition is switched off and I can't see any way for a simple unplugging to change the state of either of them. What that can very easily do though is mechanically disturb poor connections and damaged wiring, and although you keep telling us you've applied your competent teching skills and ruled that out, since you haven't told us what you actually did I have no way to know what you may has missed or wrongly assumed. It is still the only explanation I can think of that fits the facts you're giving us.I was just hoping for a definitive answer to a straightforward question, perhaps from someone who recognised the fault without the need to scrutinise my efforts making me write a 5000 word essay.
No worries. I guess I shot myself in the foot trying to keep things simple.
Anyway, it's your problem and since you apparently don't want any more assistance diagnosing it I'll let you get on with it.
GreenV8S said:
The ignition pickup and amplifier are relatively simple electronically speaking, they aren't powered up when the ignition is switched off and I can't see any way for a simple unplugging to change the state of either of them.
Nor can I, which is what prompted me to ask here amongst the hopefully TVR knowledgeable.GreenV8S said:
What that can very easily do though is mechanically disturb poor connections and damaged wiring, and although you keep telling us you've applied your competent teching skills and ruled that out, since you haven't told us what you actually did I have no way to know what you may has missed or wrongly assumed. It is still the only explanation I can think of that fits the facts you're giving us.
I haven't missed anything. The problem is being out on the road. The first time it happened I had just driven out of the car park onto the main road outside of the BNG. The Griff had sat there all afternoon so was cold save for the minute or so of running. The next time it happened I'd driven all day for many many miles up and down dale. I stopped high on a hill in the middle of nowhere to take a picture, and I had the Griff electrics in bits for the next two hours. The next time it happened I was rushing out, so just popped the bonnet, did the plug undo trick and was running straight after and good to go. It hasn't happened since and that was a few weeks ago. So the problem is, how does one isolate a problem such as this when the problem isn't there? See where I'm coming from? Not trying to be difficult. Just was hoping someone would know instantly what the problem component was.
Anyway, I appreciate your efforts and will return to the beast and double, triple, quadruple check those wires zips and clips because I owe you that much
Thanks again.
Riding God said:
And so we delve into what's become the norm for Piston Heads - the 'I'm smarter than you insult class'.
For a chap with only 20 or so posts how do you know what the norm is or are you the PH Champion Lurker 
Riding God said:
Of course I've checked the obvious. I would believe, based on many years experience of ign amps breaking down on other vehicles, the amp is at fault. Though I'm baffled as to why a solid state piece of kit relies upon being disconnected and reconnected to make it work again on the handful of occasions it has failed. This is why I asked here in case someone, hopefully a TVR mechanic, would pinpoint instantly a problem they recognised.
Not too Obvious for most newbies unless your a Smart Ass !
Riding God said:
What I was politely not asking for was a lecture in motor vehicle electronics and Hall effect ignition systems. Put it another way. I was trying to avoid wasting peoples time, including my own. Which makes me wonder. Why are you wasting yours trying to make me sound stupid? Easy to be a smart arse on the Internet isn't it.
And you don't want to come over Arrogant ? Come on tell us your true identity your not kidding me Fella .Why waste your time?
What is it with this place these days? My polite and courteous posts have been turned into accusations of arrogance simply because I tried to keep the replies offered, if any, straight to the point.
Thank you and politely, but I don't need to type or read a rerun of what I've done. Nor do I require advice on what I might have missed. I'm confident there is a component failure (which I can't pinpoint when it works perfect 99% of the time) which someone in the know would recognise instantly and tell me so.
Why you feel the need to pick the bones out of my request in an effort to character assassinate me, I can only imagine you do so to make yourself look good. How noble of you
What is it with this place these days? My polite and courteous posts have been turned into accusations of arrogance simply because I tried to keep the replies offered, if any, straight to the point.
Thank you and politely, but I don't need to type or read a rerun of what I've done. Nor do I require advice on what I might have missed. I'm confident there is a component failure (which I can't pinpoint when it works perfect 99% of the time) which someone in the know would recognise instantly and tell me so.
Why you feel the need to pick the bones out of my request in an effort to character assassinate me, I can only imagine you do so to make yourself look good. How noble of you
Riding God said:
Why waste your time?
What is it with this place these days? My polite and courteous posts have been turned into accusations of arrogance simply because I tried to keep the replies offered, if any, straight to the point.
Thank you and politely, but I don't need to type or read a rerun of what I've done. Nor do I require advice on what I might have missed. I'm confident there is a component failure (which I can't pinpoint when it works perfect 99% of the time) which someone in the know would recognise instantly and tell me so.
Why you feel the need to pick the bones out of my request in an effort to character assassinate me, I can only imagine you do so to make yourself look good. How noble of you
That's just made me What is it with this place these days? My polite and courteous posts have been turned into accusations of arrogance simply because I tried to keep the replies offered, if any, straight to the point.
Thank you and politely, but I don't need to type or read a rerun of what I've done. Nor do I require advice on what I might have missed. I'm confident there is a component failure (which I can't pinpoint when it works perfect 99% of the time) which someone in the know would recognise instantly and tell me so.
Why you feel the need to pick the bones out of my request in an effort to character assassinate me, I can only imagine you do so to make yourself look good. How noble of you
Good Luck with your problem solving 
Riding God said:
Why waste your time?
What is it with this place these days? My polite and courteous posts have been turned into accusations of arrogance simply because I tried to keep the replies offered, if any, straight to the point.
Thank you and politely, but I don't need to type or read a rerun of what I've done. Nor do I require advice on what I might have missed. I'm confident there is a component failure (which I can't pinpoint when it works perfect 99% of the time) which someone in the know would recognise instantly and tell me so.
Why you feel the need to pick the bones out of my request in an effort to character assassinate me, I can only imagine you do so to make yourself look good. How noble of you
Hmm.... you received, as requested, some suggestions of what the problem might be. You're the one who turned this into anything less than courteous thread by suggesting that the initial responses, by providing a full and comprehensive suggestions, the posters were insulting your intelligence and indeed your reply was of the 'I'm smarter than you insult class'.What is it with this place these days? My polite and courteous posts have been turned into accusations of arrogance simply because I tried to keep the replies offered, if any, straight to the point.
Thank you and politely, but I don't need to type or read a rerun of what I've done. Nor do I require advice on what I might have missed. I'm confident there is a component failure (which I can't pinpoint when it works perfect 99% of the time) which someone in the know would recognise instantly and tell me so.
Why you feel the need to pick the bones out of my request in an effort to character assassinate me, I can only imagine you do so to make yourself look good. How noble of you
All you needed to reply was that you'd tried all of those thanks but the problem remains has anyone any experience of the specific problem?
Easy really
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