Discussion
Got an early (340bhp version) Griff 500. She runs ok on full chat, but when cold and/or idling its all a bit lumpy and unpredicatable, and snatchy at low revs (the 340 bhp were known for this). My mate reckons I should be able to smooth it all out by finding a fault or two, but if it wasn't that great from the factory when new, then getting it back to as new running might not be that great either. Is there any reason with a new ecu etc one shouldn't be able to get it to run like any modern fuel injected car ?
I've seen a few members have fitted an emerald ECU. Does this smooth out all the gremlins. I'm not particularly looking for more power although i reckon there is more to come quite readily.
If emerald or similar is the way to go, whats the budget for fit & tune ?
thanks
having an aftermarket ecu fitted professionally with mapping could set you back around £2500 +.
firstly though I dont mean to dissapoint but if you have a stadard 500 the only bit that is 340bhp is the badge on the plenum, most 500`s will be putting out around 260 to 270bhp, and to get it up to 340 will cost you some time and a lot of money, I`ve done it and so have many others on here.
at the end of the day if the car feels quick enough and you enjoy it don`t worry out the figures, I`d just go to a local tvr experienced mechanic and he may have it running nicely very quickly, it probably just needs a little tlc and a tune up.
firstly though I dont mean to dissapoint but if you have a stadard 500 the only bit that is 340bhp is the badge on the plenum, most 500`s will be putting out around 260 to 270bhp, and to get it up to 340 will cost you some time and a lot of money, I`ve done it and so have many others on here.
at the end of the day if the car feels quick enough and you enjoy it don`t worry out the figures, I`d just go to a local tvr experienced mechanic and he may have it running nicely very quickly, it probably just needs a little tlc and a tune up.
Edited by clive f on Sunday 25th January 21:45
yeah i know its no where 340 and i don't mind - its quick enough just compared to 'modern' cars the ecu is a bit primitive. However £2500 for an aftermarket one is too much. I rather put carbs on it, a set of IDAs would be more entertaining.
Couldn't find the listing in the classified BTW - i look in the TVR griff section
The original ECU is a little primitive, however it can be played with. I went for an Emerald as Dave Walker is only 25miles up the road from me and others had gone that route. With Dave so accessible it was folly to choose another ECU.
Costs of aftermarket ECU's are not in the buying of the unit, it's the additional modifications you may choose to do with it. I chose the opportunity to re-loom the engine completely changing the spec to accomodate wdeband lambda, 2 stage cooling, shift lift etc etc Not all of it necessary.
But you will change to coil packs, you will change to crank sensor and trigger wheel and these are costs you must factor in. Add RR time and you're easy on your way to £1000 to £1200 without significant loom work. RR's are probably about £75 an hour all in and they're going to charge at least 2hrs without having an issues that need resolving . .
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Costs of aftermarket ECU's are not in the buying of the unit, it's the additional modifications you may choose to do with it. I chose the opportunity to re-loom the engine completely changing the spec to accomodate wdeband lambda, 2 stage cooling, shift lift etc etc Not all of it necessary.
But you will change to coil packs, you will change to crank sensor and trigger wheel and these are costs you must factor in. Add RR time and you're easy on your way to £1000 to £1200 without significant loom work. RR's are probably about £75 an hour all in and they're going to charge at least 2hrs without having an issues that need resolving . .
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Unless you want an aftermarket ECU for other reasons, I think you're heading in the wrong direction. First of all I would get somebody familiar with the 14CUX to check it over and see whether it's working correctly. If it's working well but not tuned correctly then there are a small number of people who can remap it for you - Mark Adams being the best known.
I agree with GreenV8S..
You are describing a fault - the Griff 500 drives superbly as standard.
What you describe sould a bit like an airflow meter fault but it could be a dozen things - so I'd advise getting a TVR expert to take a look at it for you.
An alternative like an Emerald is going to cost anything from £1250 (DIY) to £2250 (garage) ..IMHO
it's no easy or quick task.
You are describing a fault - the Griff 500 drives superbly as standard.
What you describe sould a bit like an airflow meter fault but it could be a dozen things - so I'd advise getting a TVR expert to take a look at it for you.
An alternative like an Emerald is going to cost anything from £1250 (DIY) to £2250 (garage) ..IMHO
it's no easy or quick task.
have a chat to this guy about the afm upgrade , it comes recommended. The ECU is rechipped to work with the new AFM and plenum with much better breathing, and then the AFM finely tweeked to get the fueling spot on. The AFM metering on the 14 CUX does cause some shunting issues. A lot less bother and expense than an aftermarket ECU.
http://www.torquev8.co.uk/
http://www.torquev8.co.uk/
Edited by blitzracing on Monday 26th January 19:37
Hang on, all this talk of aftermarket ECU's is getting a bit bogged down in coil packs, trigger wheels, wbo2 sensors..... They are optional, and highly questionable in the VFM stakes IMHO!
IIRC Phil Ringwood can do an MS that just delivers fuel and manages rpm input the same as the 14CUX (from the dizzy), it does not need to be as complicated as most owners are making it IMHO. With a little care you can also map the ign by firing the coil from the MS (limited but controllable I think). I don't think that works out too expensive, the expensive stuff you can do as upgrades later if you really want / need them. It should be able to this with the only bit of engineering required being to adapt a suitable idle valve, the rest a bit of wiring?
IIRC Phil Ringwood can do an MS that just delivers fuel and manages rpm input the same as the 14CUX (from the dizzy), it does not need to be as complicated as most owners are making it IMHO. With a little care you can also map the ign by firing the coil from the MS (limited but controllable I think). I don't think that works out too expensive, the expensive stuff you can do as upgrades later if you really want / need them. It should be able to this with the only bit of engineering required being to adapt a suitable idle valve, the rest a bit of wiring?
FFMan said:
Got an early (340bhp version) Griff 500. She runs ok on full chat, but when cold and/or idling its all a bit lumpy and unpredicatable, and snatchy at low revs (the 340 bhp were known for this). My mate reckons I should be able to smooth it all out by finding a fault or two, but if it wasn't that great from the factory when new, then getting it back to as new running might not be that great either. Is there any reason with a new ecu etc one shouldn't be able to get it to run like any modern fuel injected car ?
I've seen a few members have fitted an emerald ECU. Does this smooth out all the gremlins. I'm not particularly looking for more power although i reckon there is more to come quite readily.
If emerald or similar is the way to go, whats the budget for fit & tune ?
thanks
Have you stuck a fault code reader on the ECU ? you are only about 10 miles from me I could pop over with mine for a few mins just to see if anything obvious is wrong.....I've seen a few members have fitted an emerald ECU. Does this smooth out all the gremlins. I'm not particularly looking for more power although i reckon there is more to come quite readily.
If emerald or similar is the way to go, whats the budget for fit & tune ?
thanks
Sometimes it can be cheaper to have a fresh start than to try and find the original fault.
I made the mistake of persevering with the original system and trying to fix it. In the end it would have been cheaper to have junked it from the beginning and gone straight for an aftermarket ECU.
In the end, that’s what I had to do anyway and therefore paid twice.
In removing the original system we finally found the root of all the problems, a loom fault.
It was only fact that I had opted for a new purpose made Emerald loom that meant we were removing the old one. I had been advised by Carl Baker that he suspected the loom was faulty and the best way forward was a new loom. Electrical wiring doesn’t last forever in the under bonnet conditions of a Griff. If you compare the original loom to the new one then the difference is huge, it’s so much better.
The newer ECU’s with mapped ignition have so many advantages that you should take the opportunity and replace the lot.
I now have the power it say's in my handbook and it's smooth as silk in town driving. You can have the best of both worlds with a modern system.
I made the mistake of persevering with the original system and trying to fix it. In the end it would have been cheaper to have junked it from the beginning and gone straight for an aftermarket ECU.
In the end, that’s what I had to do anyway and therefore paid twice.
In removing the original system we finally found the root of all the problems, a loom fault.
It was only fact that I had opted for a new purpose made Emerald loom that meant we were removing the old one. I had been advised by Carl Baker that he suspected the loom was faulty and the best way forward was a new loom. Electrical wiring doesn’t last forever in the under bonnet conditions of a Griff. If you compare the original loom to the new one then the difference is huge, it’s so much better.
The newer ECU’s with mapped ignition have so many advantages that you should take the opportunity and replace the lot.
I now have the power it say's in my handbook and it's smooth as silk in town driving. You can have the best of both worlds with a modern system.
Uncle Fester said:
In removing the original system we finally found the root of all the problems, a loom fault.
Would it not have been possible to find the fault by testing the original loom in situ? Replacing the whole engine management system seems like massive overkill for a simple wiring fault, especially given that *if* the problem had been caused by one of the sensors playing up there's a good chance that your new setup would inherit it. Rewiring the whole loom would have been a lot easier than changing to a different ECU.Uncle Fester said:
Sometimes it can be cheaper to have a fresh start than to try and find the original fault.
I made the mistake of persevering with the original system and trying to fix it. In the end it would have been cheaper to have junked it from the beginning and gone straight for an aftermarket ECU.
In the end, that’s what I had to do anyway and therefore paid twice.
In removing the original system we finally found the root of all the problems, a loom fault.
It was only fact that I had opted for a new purpose made Emerald loom that meant we were removing the old one. I had been advised by Carl Baker that he suspected the loom was faulty and the best way forward was a new loom. Electrical wiring doesn’t last forever in the under bonnet conditions of a Griff. If you compare the original loom to the new one then the difference is huge, it’s so much better.
The newer ECU’s with mapped ignition have so many advantages that you should take the opportunity and replace the lot.
I now have the power it say's in my handbook and it's smooth as silk in town driving. You can have the best of both worlds with a modern system.
Wise words from Festa I made the mistake of persevering with the original system and trying to fix it. In the end it would have been cheaper to have junked it from the beginning and gone straight for an aftermarket ECU.
In the end, that’s what I had to do anyway and therefore paid twice.
In removing the original system we finally found the root of all the problems, a loom fault.
It was only fact that I had opted for a new purpose made Emerald loom that meant we were removing the old one. I had been advised by Carl Baker that he suspected the loom was faulty and the best way forward was a new loom. Electrical wiring doesn’t last forever in the under bonnet conditions of a Griff. If you compare the original loom to the new one then the difference is huge, it’s so much better.
The newer ECU’s with mapped ignition have so many advantages that you should take the opportunity and replace the lot.
I now have the power it say's in my handbook and it's smooth as silk in town driving. You can have the best of both worlds with a modern system.
Good Post 
having an early 500 with similar problems , the snatchy behaviour is normal and the tickover has always been a pain and generally does its own thing and seemed to change at every start up . Major breakthrough was when my new stepper motor failed (plug/leads/stepper/dis.cap all changed to try to smooth out the drive/tickover-no change) tickover has been perfect ever since and can now drive the car from 1500rpm and never been smoother and can drive in town without looking like Skippy , . Cold start is fine but have to warm up for 2-3 min before driving away when very cold out . A small price to pay !!
www.torquev8.com claim with their upgrade they can get rid of the `dreaded shunting` but have not seen any feedback on this .
www.torquev8.com claim with their upgrade they can get rid of the `dreaded shunting` but have not seen any feedback on this .
Pasco said:
Uncle Fester said:
Sometimes it can be cheaper to have a fresh start than to try and find the original fault.
I made the mistake of persevering with the original system and trying to fix it. In the end it would have been cheaper to have junked it from the beginning and gone straight for an aftermarket ECU.
In the end, that’s what I had to do anyway and therefore paid twice.
In removing the original system we finally found the root of all the problems, a loom fault.
It was only fact that I had opted for a new purpose made Emerald loom that meant we were removing the old one. I had been advised by Carl Baker that he suspected the loom was faulty and the best way forward was a new loom. Electrical wiring doesn’t last forever in the under bonnet conditions of a Griff. If you compare the original loom to the new one then the difference is huge, it’s so much better.
The newer ECU’s with mapped ignition have so many advantages that you should take the opportunity and replace the lot.
I now have the power it say's in my handbook and it's smooth as silk in town driving. You can have the best of both worlds with a modern system.
Wise words from Festa I made the mistake of persevering with the original system and trying to fix it. In the end it would have been cheaper to have junked it from the beginning and gone straight for an aftermarket ECU.
In the end, that’s what I had to do anyway and therefore paid twice.
In removing the original system we finally found the root of all the problems, a loom fault.
It was only fact that I had opted for a new purpose made Emerald loom that meant we were removing the old one. I had been advised by Carl Baker that he suspected the loom was faulty and the best way forward was a new loom. Electrical wiring doesn’t last forever in the under bonnet conditions of a Griff. If you compare the original loom to the new one then the difference is huge, it’s so much better.
The newer ECU’s with mapped ignition have so many advantages that you should take the opportunity and replace the lot.
I now have the power it say's in my handbook and it's smooth as silk in town driving. You can have the best of both worlds with a modern system.
Good Post blitzracing said:
Pasco said:
Uncle Fester said:
Sometimes it can be cheaper to have a fresh start than to try and find the original fault.
I made the mistake of persevering with the original system and trying to fix it. In the end it would have been cheaper to have junked it from the beginning and gone straight for an aftermarket ECU.
In the end, that’s what I had to do anyway and therefore paid twice.
In removing the original system we finally found the root of all the problems, a loom fault.
It was only fact that I had opted for a new purpose made Emerald loom that meant we were removing the old one. I had been advised by Carl Baker that he suspected the loom was faulty and the best way forward was a new loom. Electrical wiring doesn’t last forever in the under bonnet conditions of a Griff. If you compare the original loom to the new one then the difference is huge, it’s so much better.
The newer ECU’s with mapped ignition have so many advantages that you should take the opportunity and replace the lot.
I now have the power it say's in my handbook and it's smooth as silk in town driving. You can have the best of both worlds with a modern system.
Wise words from Festa I made the mistake of persevering with the original system and trying to fix it. In the end it would have been cheaper to have junked it from the beginning and gone straight for an aftermarket ECU.
In the end, that’s what I had to do anyway and therefore paid twice.
In removing the original system we finally found the root of all the problems, a loom fault.
It was only fact that I had opted for a new purpose made Emerald loom that meant we were removing the old one. I had been advised by Carl Baker that he suspected the loom was faulty and the best way forward was a new loom. Electrical wiring doesn’t last forever in the under bonnet conditions of a Griff. If you compare the original loom to the new one then the difference is huge, it’s so much better.
The newer ECU’s with mapped ignition have so many advantages that you should take the opportunity and replace the lot.
I now have the power it say's in my handbook and it's smooth as silk in town driving. You can have the best of both worlds with a modern system.
Good Post Not everyone wants to spend thousands .. unlike some of us (me included)
Intermittent wiring faults are notoriously difficult to diagnose, however good your multimeter or you are 
Sometimes its much easier to move around a problem than rip your hair out trying to solve it. A lucas ECU fault code reader can also be classed as throwing away money at the problem
Sometimes its much easier to move around a problem than rip your hair out trying to solve it. A lucas ECU fault code reader can also be classed as throwing away money at the problem
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