Ignition Coil

[Ballistic Banana]

is it Land Rover one.

On my quest to find the problem of occasional non-starting when hot i am gonna change this.
I have done everything else, Starter motor is less than 5000miles old change the dizzy and rotor arm Ht leads are good.
So only the Ignition Coil and Ignition module left ??

Simon

[Trefor]

My non-expert opinion would suggest the amp before the coil if the car runs.

Do a search as there was a discussion about Bosch vs. Lucas coils on here not so long ago. Bosch coil around £40. is thought to be the best replacement. Part number in the search results ...

[GreenV8S]

If you can reproduce the problem, you might find that conventional trouble-shooting techniques are the best way to track down the problem, rather than replacing the fuel/ignition systems bit by bit. For example it should be easy enough to work out whether the problem is fuel or ignition, and if its ignition then to work out which component is failing. It could be a completely unrelated problem like fuel vaporisation. Your other option is the 'frozen peas' approach - use a bag of frozen peas to cool the various components and see whether it jumps back to life.

[Ballistic Banana]

GreenV8S said:

If you can reproduce the problem, you might find that conventional trouble-shooting techniques are the best way to track down the problem, rather than replacing the fuel/ignition systems bit by bit. For example it should be easy enough to work out whether the problem is fuel or ignition, and if its ignition then to work out which component is failing. It could be a completely unrelated problem like fuel vaporisation. Your other option is the 'frozen peas' approach - use a bag of frozen peas to cool the various components and see whether it jumps back to life.

Cheers Peter,
I originally suspected the starter motor as this is the most common fault with sticking solinoid.
And didnt seem to happen for a fair while but in the last couple of months it has become a bit more frequent again.(so possible the starter again but like i said this was changed not long ago)
Dizzy cap and Rotor arm are quite cheap to replace so done these.
Never thought of the frozen pea method. Its that infrequent that it rarely does it when i stop at home more like the petrol station( at least I could buy some frozen stuff ).
I doubt its fuel vapourisation as wouldnt it do it every time??
Would peas on the ignition Module help?? worth a try i suppose.

Thanx

Simon

[siwes]

This is the same reply I have just givem on another thread, Check the connections to your starter motor I experienced the same symptoms. also the coil amplifier breaking down with the heat , once it cools down it will start but this symptom still allows the engine to crank .
I have heard of heat soak on the starter motor, i wonder about this I have never experienced it but from what I have read the symptons sound the same as you have.
regards
simon

[GreenV8S]

If you turn the key and nothing happens, the problem is with the starter motor - heat damage on the solenoid is a recurring problem. If the engine turns over but won't fire, the starter is fine and you're looking for fuel/ignition problems.

[No 1]

If the car doesn't turn over, perhaps you'll allow me to tell you about a similar problem I had years ago on a Peugeot 205, only it was a turbo diesel.

At first, I also thought it was the starter playing up, so took to giving that a little knock to free it up (to a point where I shattered the magnets - doh!) and that didn't really help. Well, it didn't help at all in fact. So I sent it to a local auto electric specialist, they said it was the immobilser playing up. I, being young and foolish, thought I knew better and continued on bashing the starter, rocking it whilst in gear, swapping the starter from my dad's 205 and so on. Eventually I conceded defeat, and sent it in to have the immobilser removed and lo and behold, problem fixed.

Apparently, the immobiliser wasn't working properly and wasn't allowing enough power to get through to the starter to turn over - is it possible that the same thing has happened with yours??

BTW, cheers for the pics BB. Sorry I've not responded sooner, pressures of work and al that...

[Ballistic Banana]

GreenV8S said:

If you turn the key and nothing happens, the problem is with the starter motor - heat damage on the solenoid is a recurring problem. If the engine turns over but won't fire, the starter is fine and you're looking for fuel/ignition problems.

Hi Peter,

The starter is less than a year old and not been used that mich as you can see by the amount of miles I have covered.
I Have also taken the old one apart for a bit of a refurb and although teh solinoid had got a bit of surface rust on from dampness probably i cant see how it would stick.
Is there any kind of Lubricant that could be left in there to help??

As for the immobiliser, I have had a new one since the crash and it has done this with both alarms?immobilisers( but same wiring may be in place) but the pump primes aswell which i dont think it would do if it was the immob but Thanx No1.

very confused now??

1 other thing i remeber is that when i try and turn the ignition and hold the gear stick i can feel something very lightly clicking/taping through it.. is that the starter tryibg to engage do you think??

Simon

[GreenV8S]

Ballistic Banana said:

1 other thing i remeber is that when i try and turn the ignition and hold the gear stick i can feel something very lightly clicking/taping through it.. is that the starter tryibg to engage do you think?? Simon

That sounds kind of like the starter dropping out as soon as it engages. This happens with a flat battery, where there's just enough juice to work the solenoid but when the solenoid engages the starter motor the battery voltage drops so far that the solenoid disengages again - sounds a bit like the starter motor has turned into a machine gun. I guess it might also happen if there's a significant resistance on the main power lead to the starter, or the earth. If the problem is repeatable, (and if you don't mind getting dirty under the car), it would be well worth sticking a voltmeter on the main power terminal on the starter motor and seeing what happens when you try to start it. I would suggest three measurements, firstly the voltage directly across the motor, second the voltage drop between the starter motor earth and the battery earth, third the drop between the battery positive and the starter motor positive. This would tell you whether there is actually a voltage drop somewhere, and if so whether it is in the 12V or earth side of things.

Final thought that might be worth a quick sanity check, while I was doing some rewiring on mine recently I found the feed to the solenoid (the thin wire from the ignition switch) was a loose fit on the terminal (the spade connector was the wrong size). Its possible that as the starter kicks in to life, the movement of the engine could wiggle the wire enough to break contact momentarily? This might also cause the 'machine gun' symptoms.

Hope this helps,
Peter Humphries (and a green V8S)

[Ballistic Banana]

Steve,

I dont get the machine gun noise, i can just feel something through teh gearstick Tapping/knocking very faintly everytime i try to turn the ignition and just the once.
Just done some checks as advised above/below.

V from Startermotor to earth (cold) 12.86v (hot)12.81v

V engine Started and Running (cold) 13.89v (hot) 13.9v

I was no volt Drop Between Battery earth and solinoid earth and also no Vd across the 2 Positives.

I couldnt make it not start again??? even after leaving running for a while.

Havent tried changing the ignition feed relay but not sure whether that if faulty would cause these problems.
All the wires etc look ok, so prehaps i will have to dig deep and change the Ignition module??


Simon

[Joolzb]

BB,
Did you solve this problem? Your description of the prob sounds very similar to the one I'm currently getting. Starts perfectly when cold but struggles when hot.

I've also changed the starter motor, added heat shield to motor and solenoid, up'd the voltage to the solenoid from ign maintaining consistant 12V.

I guess I can eliminate...
starter motor + sol.
heat soak
knack'd battery(tested)

Any suggestions, help on what to try next would be appreciated.

cheers

[Ballistic Banana]

Yeah I have since Tried a new Starter Motor and all seems fine.
See my profile for where I sourced a reasonable cheap SM.

Its about half the lenght of the original starter so maybe more room for airflow too(can only help).
I know some TVR's eat SM's and its not uncommon for them to be frazzled after a year.



BB

[Joolzb]

Thanks BB. I couldn't find the link but your website's looking coool. I believe it's the same SM that I fitted after our previous discussion. Mine's only a couple of months old so should be fine, heat shielded up too. I guess the next analysis will involve some frozen peas, hmmm Waitrose or Asda??