Is that the normal UK attitude to foreign buyers?

[joe2111]

Hi guys,
I´m Joe, coming from Germany and have been looking for a Griff500 for almost 3 months now. I´ve got a few good friend from the UK but I´ve never experienced such unpolite and ignorant behaviour before.
It happened twice, the first time I found a nice Griff500 the owner and I agreed on a price after discussing the state of the car in countless emails and phonecalls. I then told him that I would pick up the car on a certain date - booked the flight and paid for the insurance - all sums up to 250 EUROS. One day before my flight leaves the guy informs me in a short email, that he just sold the car to another guy. After I tried to contact him I remembered him about our verbal buying contract and all my expenses already paid. He just replied that he´s sorry but obviously he couldn´t be sure of that I really show up. WHAT - I mailed him everything my flight number all the works. UNBELIEVABLE!!!!!!
Now after a long search I found another Griff 500 and the same thing -IDENTICAL happened again!!! WTF - I spent 250 EUROS again and lost the money again. My flight was suppose to go on Wednesday, insurance for the car already paid - I cannot believe it.

What is your opinion to such behaviour -is it common?????
I´m still searching for a Griff but I´m tempted not to buy one, just because of all that happened to me.
I actually was always concerned about the chassis rust problem and other niggles but not of that type of problem..


Cheers
Joe

[RichB]

Hi Joe, it does seem to be exceedingly bad behaviour on the part of these people. I don't know why they should have done this because if you've paid for flights and arranged insurance you obviously intend to be there to buy the car! Perhaps next time get one of your UK friends or a UK TVRCC member to call the guy on your behalf to ensure it all goes according to plan? p.s. I hope it wasn't anyone on here

[joe2111]

Hi Rich,
you know the funniest thing was - all contacts I had were through the ads on the tvrcc . ANd everything seemed to be OK nice people on the phone but ignorant in their behaviour afterwards..

By the way still searching for a nice Griff500 for 10K, hopefully less. Mileage is not that important as long as the service history is comprehensive.

CHeers
Joe

[Colin RedGriff]

I certainly would be pretty annoyed if it happened to me and I lost £250. The problem is that there have been several instances of scams operated by foreign buyers where the seller has ended up losing the car and money, or the seller has simply not turned up.

I don't doubt you are genuine in your desire to purchase a car but when the seller is presented with a guy on the doorstep with cash in hand and you are in another country it is difficult to resist. I'm not approving of this behaviour just pointing out that the temtation is very high.

This is a problem even if you are in the UK were there is a limited supply of cars like this - I lost out on a number of cars as they sold even though I was interested in them, luckily it didn't cost me anything other than time.

Only advice I can offer is that you try and communicate your genuine interest to the buyer. Personally I would hope that a seller would at least have the courtesy to hold the car until the date you say you are coming to buy the car before selling it to someone else.

You might have better luck speaking to someone like James Agger or Rob Ingelby and use them to find and secure the car for you.

[spend]

A lot of us Island Monkeys mistrust dealings with continentals (unfairly in many cases IMHO).

Its a PITA but SWIFT transfers are probably the only way to effectively make a deposit and seal a deal? Paypal might also be possible?

If you can't view cars readily, Jaggers would certainly be my recommendation to find/buy a car for you, just tell him exactly what you want.. (make sure you have free calls though )

[chris52]

Personally I dont blame the seller from selling the car' its his property and as with all sales its first come first served. What would have happened if you did traveled over had a couple to look at and decided not to buy his!!I would think he would be pretty pissed if he had turned down a definate sale. I have been in the motor trade for many years and I would never consider refusing a sale just on the say so of another "possible" interested party. Cash is King if you realy wanted the car and the contract you should have sealed it with some sort of deposit. At least that way if you backed out the seller would be compensated by keeping your deposit and if he backed out you could sue him for breach of contract and get all your "out of pocket expeses" returned.

Chris

[V8 GRF]

chris52 said:

Personally I dont blame the seller from selling the car' its his property and as with all sales its first come first served. What would have happened if you did traveled over had a couple to look at and decided not to buy his!!I would think he would be pretty pissed if he had turned down a definate sale. I have been in the motor trade for many years and I would never consider refusing a sale just on the say so of another "possible" interested party. Cash is King if you realy wanted the car and the contract you should have sealed it with some sort of deposit. At least that way if you backed out the seller would be compensated by keeping your deposit and if he backed out you could sue him for breach of contract and get all your "out of pocket expeses" returned.

Chris

I have to say though if I was the OP and had sent confirmation details of my flight etc I'd be pretty pissed off and I think you would be too, the fact he's willing to spend £250 coming over to see it would convince me he wasn't a timewaster.

Pretty bad show imo

[yellowgriff]

V8 GRF said:

chris52 said:

Personally I dont blame the seller from selling the car' its his property and as with all sales its first come first served. What would have happened if you did traveled over had a couple to look at and decided not to buy his!!I would think he would be pretty pissed if he had turned down a definate sale. I have been in the motor trade for many years and I would never consider refusing a sale just on the say so of another "possible" interested party. Cash is King if you realy wanted the car and the contract you should have sealed it with some sort of deposit. At least that way if you backed out the seller would be compensated by keeping your deposit and if he backed out you could sue him for breach of contract and get all your "out of pocket expeses" returned.

Chris

I have to say though if I was the OP and had sent confirmation details of my flight etc I'd be pretty pissed off and I think you would be too, the fact he's willing to spend £250 coming over to see it would convince me he wasn't a timewaster.

Pretty bad show imo

I completely agree loads & loads of email. If you was going to sell the car on first come basis tell the bloke up front Not after tickets & arrangments were made.
As for being in the car trade ,, I have been all my life, If you shaken hands or agreed sale by phone or carrier pigeon Deal done,,,Motor trade was once a honourable place obviously not now..................Hope being from other shore you dont class every one the same over here,,, GOLDIE

[chris52]

yellowgriff said:

V8 GRF said:

chris52 said:

Personally I dont blame the seller from selling the car' its his property and as with all sales its first come first served. What would have happened if you did traveled over had a couple to look at and decided not to buy his!!I would think he would be pretty pissed if he had turned down a definate sale. I have been in the motor trade for many years and I would never consider refusing a sale just on the say so of another "possible" interested party. Cash is King if you realy wanted the car and the contract you should have sealed it with some sort of deposit. At least that way if you backed out the seller would be compensated by keeping your deposit and if he backed out you could sue him for breach of contract and get all your "out of pocket expeses" returned.

Chris

I have to say though if I was the OP and had sent confirmation details of my flight etc I'd be pretty pissed off and I think you would be too, the fact he's willing to spend £250 coming over to see it would convince me he wasn't a timewaster.

Pretty bad show imo

I completely agree loads & loads of email. If you was going to sell the car on first come basis tell the bloke up front Not after tickets & arrangments were made.
As for being in the car trade ,, I have been all my life, If you shaken hands or agreed sale by phone or carrier pigeon Deal done,,,Motor trade was once a honourable place obviously not now..................Hope being from other shore you dont class every one the same over here,,, GOLDIE

Goldie you say you have been in the motor trade for a long time, I have for 20 plus years, and I agree of late the honour is diminshing, its a shame but the truth. If I held on to every promise of a sale I would have been out of business a long time ago. I hate to use a phrase that that somebody told me many years ago but in some cases (not all) its true "BUYERS ARE LIARS". If someone is really serious about something a deposit is required, a plane ticket is only confirmation that he is traveling to the UK but how many cars is he viewing?? just yours?? or four or five. If I were going to travel abroad to view something that was for sale I would have the contract sealed prior to spending any money that was not recoverable.
Sorry for the harsh stance but this is the only way to avoid major upsets for all parties.

Chris

[yellowgriff]

Chris... I've been in car trade some 35 years not trying to beat your recored.But my garage is in SE LONDON,Still run my garage by the old rules works 99% of the time as you said are some aholes out there but My word is my bond win or lose... Another reason in SE london do a dirty end up DEAD no joking..
Be lucky mate ,,,, GOLDIE

[RichB]

Well on the basis of those two pitches Goldie gets my business Rich...

[panic]

I have a nice LHD Griffith 500 (registered in Italy and bought through the official TVR dealer of the time...) that I might want to sell to the right person...



Ops...sorry, I forgot to add: At the proper price

Edited by panic on Monday 20th April 21:28

[yellowgriff]

RichB said:

Well on the basis of those two pitches Goldie gets my business Rich...

Richard,,
Cheers for the vote.. Had a look at your car stable .. Love the old ASTON. Just painted on 1962 James young Bentley for a very big customer didnt know how rare it was they just sold it for 750,000 didnt like it at all ....Your Aston different kettle of fish...GOLDIE

[chris52]

yellowgriff said:

Chris... I've been in car trade some 35 years not trying to beat your recored.But my garage is in SE LONDON,Still run my garage by the old rules works 99% of the time as you said are some aholes out there but My word is my bond win or lose... Another reason in SE london do a dirty end up DEAD no joking..
Be lucky mate ,,,, GOLDIE

Goldie there are some aholes. but to be fair most of our business is repeat/refferals so we must be doing something right. There are a hell of a lot of "dodgy" car dealers out there that give us a bad name that we don't realy deserve. But you can't please everyone and you never will. we sold 98 retail cars last month from 2 sales forcourts that hold 45 cars at one 65 cars at the other, we are members of the tradinging standards partnership and we have been there 20 years. Like yourself when we say we are going to do somthing we do it right whatever the cost to ourselves and that is how we have stayed in business for so long. but a contract is required to help everyone both ourseves and the purchaser.
all the best mate.
Chris

[joe2111]

Thanks to all of you for your moral support as I´m feeling pretty f..d right now.
Just one word to you Chris, I understand your opinion in a certain way. But if you would have followed my conversation with the seller and the emails as well - we agreed 100% and I reminded the guy many many times that coming to the UK is quite expensive for me as I had to make all arrangements in advance -obviously. I don´t know what else I can do as sending him my flight data and ticket confirmation as well as the fact that I bought the special insurance which is bound to only one SINGLE VIN - that you have to tell the insurance in advance. This insurance is NOT refundable and not transferable to another VIN. So again tough for me.

You know I just received an email from this guy again, where he tells me that I didn´t have to book the flight in advance, I should have booked the flight only 24 hours before and that the insurance should be transferable. ANd in the end it was my fault, because he couldn´t be sure that I would be turning up. HELLO??? Telling me that now after I assured him about my arrangements. I´m speechless when I hear this cr.p . He just simply tells me to get lost with my expenses. Although he agreed to 100% to the deal before I made all the arrangements.

I think that´s not the way you treat people.
Joe

[yellowgriff]

chris52 said:

yellowgriff said:

Chris... I've been in car trade some 35 years not trying to beat your recored.But my garage is in SE LONDON,Still run my garage by the old rules works 99% of the time as you said are some aholes out there but My word is my bond win or lose... Another reason in SE london do a dirty end up DEAD no joking..
Be lucky mate ,,,, GOLDIE

Goldie there are some aholes. but to be fair most of our business is repeat/refferals so we must be doing something right. There are a hell of a lot of "dodgy" car dealers out there that give us a bad name that we don't realy deserve. But you can't please everyone and you never will. we sold 98 retail cars last month from 2 sales forcourts that hold 45 cars at one 65 cars at the other, we are members of the tradinging standards partnership and we have been there 20 years. Like yourself when we say we are going to do somthing we do it right whatever the cost to ourselves and that is how we have stayed in business for so long. but a contract is required to help everyone both ourseves and the purchaser.
all the best mate.
Chris [/quote
Chris.. Sorry if i'm sounding like i'm having a go at you (PROMISE) i'm not.. The way i read the first mail is the bloke has been in contact all the way through the deal by E mail.. Tickets bought & insurance done,, If the seller told the customer in the first place first come first severe,, He might have left it or asked if he required a Deposit... To then sell the car, Not a very nice person in my books & against what i have been brought up to do...GOLDIE PS GOOD LUCK WITH THE BUSiNESS FOR THE FUTURE

[chris52]

joe2111 said:

Thanks to all of you for your moral support as I´m feeling pretty f..d right now.
Just one word to you Chris, I understand your opinion in a certain way. But if you would have followed my conversation with the seller and the emails as well - we agreed 100% and I reminded the guy many many times that coming to the UK is quite expensive for me as I had to make all arrangements in advance -obviously. I don´t know what else I can do as sending him my flight data and ticket confirmation as well as the fact that I bought the special insurance which is bound to only one SINGLE VIN - that you have to tell the insurance in advance. This insurance is NOT refundable and not transferable to another VIN. So again tough for me.

You know I just received an email from this guy again, where he tells me that I didn´t have to book the flight in advance, I should have booked the flight only 24 hours before and that the insurance should be transferable. ANd in the end it was my fault, because he couldn´t be sure that I would be turning up. HELLO??? Telling me that now after I assured him about my arrangements. I´m speechless when I hear this cr.p . He just simply tells me to get lost with my expenses. Although he agreed to 100% to the deal before I made all the arrangements.

I think that´s not the way you treat people.
Joe

Joe i really feel for you mate, Its not only the disapointment of losing the cash but also losing the car you wanted. Hope the next time you deal with someone things go better for you.
good luck mate in finding your griff I know you will enjoy it and it will have been worth all the stress

chris

[Bluebottle]

This does sound like pretty disgraceful behaviour in my book. I've been in the position of having an offer made on a my car with another person previously booked to travel to view it, and I've always said to the first visitor that I have a previously booked customer, but if they do not buy then the car is theirs...If they are serious about their offer they will always wait.

[heebeegeetee]

Hi Joe, sorry to hear your troubles.

In our defence, i would say that unfortunately there has been a lot of scams here running over the past few years which invariably involves a buyer from abroad.

And also - its exactly the same here if you're buying a house. No contract exists until the deeds have changed hands, no matter what has been said or written beforehand nor what costs have been incurred. It's madness.

In short, it all adds up to the business ethic of this country, and this greed is one of the reasons why the UK has gone bankrupt.

It might be worth considering a short holiday here, and spending the time viewing cars.

[3024E]

Totally agree about the scams, my griff was for sale and i had a few enquiries from europe i just dismissed them, one guy got quite stroppy.........