Little more help needed

[chris52]

Hi guys sorry to keep pestering you all with my questions. anyway had a loud tapping noise from the engine and was pretty sure it was a blow on the manifold, the car was also a bit hesitant at low revs but as I have found out this is pretty standard on the RV8 engine. Anyway to the point I need advice on, I was pretty sure the noise was coming from n/s bank so decided to remove the manifold and replace the gaskets to to rule out that realy, having removed the manifold I can find nothing obvious to say the gasket had blown but I did find that no1 port was a LOT blacker and sootier than all the others which were a nice even light grey. I have enclosed a couple of picture for you guys to see, Do you think this is the problem? is this the result from a blowing gasket or something else internaly.
Any help would be much appreciated

this is how 3 of the ports looks all the same and nice and even


this however is no1 cylider port which as you can see is much darker with deposits of soot. the picture also looks like its blowing at the bottom but that is just the black sealer that was used

[Barkychoc]

One possibility is a worn cam - too little air getting into that cylinder so it runs rich, but its just an armchair guess.
Is the spark plug also black where the others are brownish?

Edited by Barkychoc on Wednesday 29th April 16:57

[chris52]

Still unsure I have removed the rocker cover to inspect the rockers and all seems ok. so I decided to see how much travel the inlet valves travel to fully open and no1 travels 3mm less than all the others.Now if I leave no1 fully open for about a minute it creaps back up about 1mm as the oil drains from the lifter but all the others creep back up about 3mm so this makes me think I have a knackered lifter??? does this sound right?? or could it still be the cam? just to give a little backround to the car it is a 97 griff 500 serp done 67000miles but it did have a full engine rebuild at 44000miles including new cam and lifters.

your thoughts would be greatly appreciated

Chris

edit to say I suppose this would be the loud tapping noise aswell

Edited by chris52 on Wednesday 29th April 18:18

[chris52]

Gutted the cam is cream crackered inlet on no 1 is practcally rounded.
can the cam be replaced with the engine still in the car and do i need to replace the cam bearings at the same time. I have never done a juo like this so its going to be a hell of a learning curve for me.
Luckily I have the bible on its way so will stop any more work until I get it.

Chris

[Barkychoc]

Chris where in Yorkshire are you?
If you are South Yorks you're not a million miles away from me - I have my engine out on a stand at the moment if it would help to come and look before you start anything you're welcome.
My engine is slightly different in that it is a pre serp but may still be of some value to see.
I've never taken a V8 to bits before but its a pretty simple engine. Well it is to take apart anyway

[chris52]

Thanks for the offer I am in leeds so a few miles away but nothing major. I may take you up on that if needs be.
Chris

[Colin RedGriff]

I believe it is possible to replace the cam with engine in situ. Never done it myself but I think there are several on here who have.

[2Munkys]

chris52 said:

Gutted the cam is cream crackered inlet on no 1 is practcally rounded.
can the cam be replaced with the engine still in the car and do i need to replace the cam bearings at the same time. I have never done a juo like this so its going to be a hell of a learning curve for me.
Luckily I have the bible on its way so will stop any more work until I get it.

Chris

Hi Chris

Yup, you can replace the cam with the motor installed; you need to remove the forward cross-member (4 x nuts 'n' bolts) to withdraw it from the block though. I did the job on my Griff a few years back; it's not difficult but allow yourself a full weekend. Basic tools required plus a torque wrench (which to most is a basic tool), a Dial Indicator and Degreeing Disc (which you can download www.machinerycleanery.com ).

There are no bearing shells to replace; the cam runs directly in the aluminium of the block; it's not untypical. There are thrust bearings but they are likely to be o.k.

Give someone like V8 Developments a call who'll supply you with a Camshaft kit which includes followers and build lube. They'll also supply gaskets and give you advice.

Check the rocker shafts, rockers and their pads whilst its all apart.

[Barkychoc]

2Munkys said:

There are no bearing shells to replace; the cam runs directly in the aluminium of the block; it's not untypical.

I don't know if they are described as shell bearings but my engine (and I believe all RV8's) has circular bearings pressed into the block for the cam - they are fine so I don't intend to replace them.
You really can't see them very well without stripping the engine, but personally I'd run with whats already in there, see if you can shine a torch on them just to make sure they are silver / grey and no copper is visible (the backing material). Any copper visible is bad news.
Be careful not to scratch them taking the cam out.

I was quoted £60 to replace the cam bearings by the way - but thats taking the stripped block to an engine builder.

[chris52]

Cheers for the info guys.
Ok at the moment I have the inlet manifold off rocker covers off and will start to reove the timing cover shortly.
the front cross member needs to also be removed and i presume the main cat.

I am waiting for the bible to come and dont want to start dismantling any of the timing side until I have all the infomation about dismanteling in the correct order, but I can get a start on removing all the other bits and bats to save time when I get started on the technical things.
so other than front crossmember and main cat (will this come off without removing the whole exhaust?)is there any other ground work I need to do?

Chris

[clive f]

dont expect to get to much help from the `bible`, its a good read for general facts and figures, but a haynes manual it isn`t, so it wont tell you how to remove the cam and valve gear and set it all back up again.

do some research on cam timing for rv8`s, try rpi`s website for info, also I believe our own Quinny has a very detailed write up on the griffith pages, and if you are ever in doubt talk to rob at v8 developments.

[Barkychoc]

If not already done you could remove the rocker assemblies & pushrods (keep the pushrods in order if you're going to reuse them, new ones are pretty cheap).
The hydraulic tappets should lift out from the top, you will need to chuck these away as you'll need new ones with the new cam, though for some reason I have yet to fathom I still kept mine in the right order.

Slide the rockers to one side on the rocker shaft and see if there is any wear / scoring on the shafts underneath with relation to the pedestals (there will be).
If so its advisable to change the shafts and rockers, or you'll have iron filings circulating in your oil as it wears further, which won't help your new cam at all!

You need to also get the crankshaft pulley off - you may need a puller if its stuck on the crank.

I'm not sure if there's any oil pump gotchas with the serp front cover as mine is pre serp.

To try and give me a chance with the ignition timing I removed the distributor cap and set the engine to TDC with the rotor arm pointing at No1 position, then took a photo from above.

[Colin RedGriff]

clive f said:

the `bible`, its a good read for general facts and figures, but a haynes manual it isn`t,

This might help though TGP Rover workshop Manual

[2Munkys]

Oh yea, get yourself a new crank pulley bolt; apparently they've been known to fail second time around if overtorqued. And before you remove the Dizzy, scribe an alignment mark at the bottom of its body (over the shoulder) and onto the block for accurately reinstating the ignition timing you had before. There are basic alignment marks which you'll see under the Dizzy cap which should align when the crank is at TDC for No.1's firing stroke; you'll at least get the spark going to the right cylinder at the right time when it's cobled back together.

And take photo's for your own back-reference.

[Barkychoc]

I don't think its fair to knock the bible - its a bloody good effort from Steve when you consider the small market, only a true enthusiast would want to bother.
With regard to engine info get hold of a haynes manual for a range rover of the appropriate year (if you don't get a late enough one it won't have the serp front end).
This even then isn't perfect, with no mention of tappet pre load for starters.

[chris52]

well got a little further tonight got the cross member off and the main cat so I now have nothing obstucting the rest of the job.

thanks for the help so far I will probably need a litle more yet though.
also that link to the rover V8 manual is a great help.

cheers chris

[chris52]

Tappet pre-load! Do I need to do it?
some pretty conflicting and confuseing information some say yes some say no plus there is no info in the rover manual on pre-load.

Chris

[2Munkys]

chris52 said:

Tappet pre-load! Do I need to do it?
some pretty conflicting and confuseing information some say yes some say no plus there is no info in the rover manual on pre-load.

Chris

Theoretically you shouldn't need to adjust this as you're not replacing the head gaskets (gasket thickness needs consideration) and the base-circle of the new cam is likely to be the same as that on the camshaft which you're removing; double check with a vernier caliper though. It wouldn't be a bad idea to check the pre-load but it's likely to be within limits.

[Barkychoc]

I think RPI do a kit with instructions for £20 or so to check it anyway.

[Seasider]

chris52 said:

Tappet pre-load! Do I need to do it?
some pretty conflicting and confuseing information some say yes some say no plus there is no info in the rover manual on pre-load.

Chris

Click on Technical then Valve train