Running rich
Running rich
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ETY

Original Poster:

152 posts

268 months

Tuesday 30th June 2009
quotequote all
Hi all took the car out for a run and after a few minutes she started to cough and splutter ! she has started to smell of fuel and after removing a few plugs found them to be very carbon fouled , the car has very recently had a new cam , plugs, air filter etc any suggestions in which direction to look to diagnose ?

pwd95

8,457 posts

267 months

Tuesday 30th June 2009
quotequote all
Temp sensor that feeds the ECU?

CLN1

657 posts

254 months

Wednesday 1st July 2009
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When my friend had similar symptoms it turned out to be the afm

Colin.

blitzracing

6,422 posts

249 months

Wednesday 1st July 2009
quotequote all
AFM, or misfire. The ECU mistakes unburnt fuel as a lean mixture, so it pumps in more fuel. Each side of the V8 is independently controlled, so black plugs on one side show the misfire side.

ETY

Original Poster:

152 posts

268 months

Wednesday 1st July 2009
quotequote all
afm ???

CLN1

657 posts

254 months

Wednesday 1st July 2009
quotequote all
Sorry, Air Flow Meter.

Colin.

blitzracing

6,422 posts

249 months

Wednesday 1st July 2009
quotequote all
Testing the A.F.M .

With thanks to Mark Adams of TornadoSystems.com

Note that you can drive without an airflow meter in case of emergency (i.e. airflow meter disconnected), because the system will drop into a default (limp-home) mode based on throttle opening.

Most airflow meter faults will cause the engine to run excessively rich. However if the airflow meter remains connected whilst defective then the vehicle will probably not run. In most cases the output from a defective airflow meter will be in the range 2.0-2.5 Volts, which is a viable value. This represents a moderate load and will cause heavy over-fuelling without setting a fault code.

Testing is performed in the following manner. Peel back the rubber boot on the airflow meter connector and leave it plugged in to the airflow meter. Set up the digital multimeter to read voltage. Insert the negative probe into the Red/Black wire (sensor ground), and the positive into the Blue/Green wire (Airflow signal).

Turn on the ignition, but do not start the engine. The meter should immediately indicate a reading of approximately 0.3-0.34 Volts. Most defective airflow meters will overshoot to 0.8 Volts or higher, and take at least 2 seconds to come down to the correct voltage.

Now start the engine, and the reading should rise to 1.6 Volts (3.5 Litre engine) to 1.75 Volts (5.0 Litre engine).

The next test is full load, and as with the fuel pressure test it will require use of a rolling road or a steep hill in the same manner. Under full load the voltage should rise to 4.45 Volts (3.5 Litre engine) to 4.95 Volts (5.0 Litre engine).

On this injection system, the idle CO mixture adjuster is provided on the airflow meter. It is located in a boss on the top of the airflow meter, pointing towards the engine. Leaving the multimeter negative probe in the Red/Black wire, move the positive probe to the Blue/Red wire.

Now turn on the ignition but do not start the engine. Observe the voltage. The normal adjustment range is between 0.0 and 3.6 Volts, with the higher Voltages producing higher idle CO values. There are approximately 20 turns of the adjuster screw to cover the entire range.

Annoyingly, the adjustment may be clockwise or anticlockwise to increase the value, and this varies from meter to meter! For this reason it is always preferable to have the multimeter connected in this manner when adjusting idle CO, so that you see can something is actually happening.

Typical Voltages that would be found at this point are between 0.9 to 1.4 Volts for non-catalyst cars. This Voltage is always factory pre-set to 1.8 Volts for catalyst vehicles. A value near to 3.5 Volts will generally produce an idle CO value of 9-10%. These Voltages may be used as safe initial values particularly if no CO measuring equipment is available.

blueg33

46,438 posts

253 months

Thursday 2nd July 2009
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Mine did exactly this. Turned out that the guy who fitted the manifolds forgot toplug the afm back in. Firs port of call, check the multiplug to the AFM makes sure its properly seated and secure

ETY

Original Poster:

152 posts

268 months

Thursday 2nd July 2009
quotequote all
Many thanks will try out this at the weekend and let you know how it goes

WokingWedger

1,030 posts

234 months

Thursday 2nd July 2009
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See my post this morning in Chim forum about Lambda sensor connectors.

Just a thought !

ETY

Original Poster:

152 posts

268 months

Friday 3rd July 2009
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had electrician here this morning and test on air flow meter found to be ok ! does anyone know where else to investigate ? is it possible to hire a diagnostic test meter for griff ?

blitzracing

6,422 posts

249 months

Friday 3rd July 2009
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Next point of call is borrow a fault code reader to see if there is a code, also check for misfires, and are all the plugs sooty?

ETY

Original Poster:

152 posts

268 months

Sunday 5th July 2009
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Where do i go to hire a code reader ? do i need to check all plugs , as i have taken a couple out at random and they where very sooty ! many thanks

Hoover.

5,993 posts

271 months

Sunday 5th July 2009
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fault finders can be hired for about tenner...look in the classifieds under parts generally shown their or on ebay...

looks loke also on ebay you can but now relatively cheap.. circa £50-£60

blitzracing

6,422 posts

249 months

Monday 6th July 2009
quotequote all
ETY said:
Where do i go to hire a code reader ? do i need to check all plugs , as i have taken a couple out at random and they where very sooty ! many thanks
When you say at random, does that mean one from each side of the engine? The important bit is each side is fueled independently, so if both sides are black it has to be common to both banks. That eliminates the lambda probes, and any of the HT leads (from cap to plugs) or plugs themselves. That leaves AFM (already tested), blocked fuel return pipe (unlikely), open circuit temp sender or loom fault, HT coil, king lead, ignition amp, or possibly ECU. Get at test meter on DC volts across the white and black wires from a Lambda probe, and see if its switching between about 0 and 1volt at tickover at .5 second intervals. If its seriously rich, you will get 1.2 volts constantly and you should get a fault code from the ECU. If its switching, (however slowly)then it may not throw up a fault code. Have you tried disconnecting the ECU for a short while to reset it?

ETY

Original Poster:

152 posts

268 months

Monday 6th July 2009
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All plugs sooty ! Lambda sensors ????

ETY

Original Poster:

152 posts

268 months

Monday 6th July 2009
quotequote all
is there a temp sensor other than for the temp gauge ? where is it ?

GreenV8S

31,018 posts

313 months

Monday 6th July 2009
quotequote all
ETY said:
is there a temp sensor other than for the temp gauge ? where is it ?
At the front of the inlet manifold, close to the sender for the gauge. The one for the ECU has a mini-timer style connector similar to the ones used for injectors.

blitzracing

6,422 posts

249 months

Monday 6th July 2009
quotequote all
The sensor range is the same for both the water temp and fuel temp sensors (both in the photo) so you can unplug them and do a resistance check on a cold engine, and the readings should be near the same if they are OK. Also check there is 5 volts across the connector with it unplugged, and the ignition on. I dont think failed lambda probes make it run THAT rich, but you do need to take a voltage reading from the probes first. If the voltages are down around 0- .2 volts then the probes may be knackered, but Id be surprised if they both failed at the same time, unless the fuel was contaminated.

R1UJO

16 posts

224 months

Monday 6th July 2009
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mine was running rich at the begining of the year neil garner had it for a week changed all sorts of things turned out to be a bad earth on the lamdba sensors runs better than ever now