Cam swap.

[panic]

Is it possible to swap cams in a Griff 500 without taken the whole engine out? What are the pros/cons? What should I take care of?

[chris52]

Yes you can, you will need to remove the exhaust y piece and front cross member to be able to slide it out.

Chris

[clive f]

yes its quite straight forward, the only awkward bit being removing the cam itself, as the top chassis member is in the way, but this comes out by removing the bolts that hold it in place, and probably needing another pair of hands when removing the crank pulley, one person to undo the bolt and another under the car to carefully lock the engine by placing a large screwdriver or similar shaped tool into one of the flywheel teeth, but make sure its a good fit in the teeth as you dont want to damage the flywheel.

[GreenV8S]

Be very careful while you're at it. If you scrape the cam bearings then replacing them involves stripping the engine to ream the replacements. So although it's possible, make sure you aren't struggling due to limited access when you do it.

[Hamburglar]

Just replacing the cam isn't always the most cost effective method, you may want to replace the followers as well according to the chap that did mine.

Heres the lowdown:

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

[Johno]

Hamburglar said:

Just replacing the cam isn't always the most cost effective method, you may want to replace the followers as well according to the chap that did mine.

Heres the lowdown:

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

If you're replacing the cam you will have had to have taken out the followers anyway, so as suggested you'll want to change them at the same time.

You'll then have to re-adjust all the pre-loads so you'll need to check the racker arm pads for signs of wear, also the push rods are still in good nick . . . Plus timing the cam, check the timing chain . .

So to answer the original question, yes, once you've got the chassis rail out of the way and Y piece, front cover off the engine and the inlet manifold out . .

But they're the easy bits

[cinquecento]

But do give it a go!!!!

I am currently changing my cam at the moment..just timed it so I am now ready to re-assemble the engine.

It's a wonderfully interesting and absorbing process... just take your time.

[panic]

cinquecento said:

But do give it a go!!!!

I am currently changing my cam at the moment..just timed it so I am now ready to re-assemble the engine.

It's a wonderfully interesting and absorbing process... just take your time.

I'm not able todo the job properly, I'll feel more confident to have it done by a professional.

Thanks for all the advice and info given.

BTW, what do you think by the V8D 404 cam? For a weekend toy always driven quite spirited and mainly on open roads?

[dnb]

404 cam is good. Idle isn't too great, but I am happy with it on my daily driver. There's plenty of power and torque

[GreenV8S]

Hamburglar said:

Just replacing the cam isn't always the most cost effective method

You should always replace the cam and followers as a set, and unless it's being changed for some other reason than being worn out you should replace the drive set as a matter of course too.

[swanny71]

panic said:

cinquecento said:

BTW, what do you think by the V8D 404 cam? For a weekend toy always driven quite spirited and mainly on open roads?

The 404 would probably be great for the type of driving you describe. But I hated it in my Griff (not at all 'fun' driving) and changed it for a Stealth which is much nicer for my circumstance.

[cinquecento]

I have choosen the V8D stealth.. for the reasons dnb mentioned. I live in a big city... a smooth idle and no chunting are top priority.

I'll let you know how it goes when I've finished re-assembling the engine..

[dbv8]

Can a wilder cam be totally blamed for what people refer to as bad road manners?
Maybe a far from perfect ECU etc isnt helping matters.
I also think we are far to used to very smooth modern cars that are very forgiving.

Im considering fitting a solid lifter '238' cam into my 450 and am hoping an Emerald ECU will make it manageable enough for the drives to the strip and TVR meetings/runs.
Im quite willing to sacrifice a smooth idle for a bigger kick at 3000 and power through to 7000 ;)

[rev-erend]

panic said:

cinquecento said:

But do give it a go!!!!

I am currently changing my cam at the moment..just timed it so I am now ready to re-assemble the engine.

It's a wonderfully interesting and absorbing process... just take your time.

I'm not able todo the job properly, I'll feel more confident to have it done by a professional.

Thanks for all the advice and info given.

BTW, what do you think by the V8D 404 cam? For a weekend toy always driven quite spirited and mainly on open roads?

Depends on the 404.

Mechanical or hydraulic.

I've had the mechanical and it's a mad bad assed cam with looney pickup but it most definately needed a very detailed remap by Mark Adams to make it's manners tolerable and he did a great job by the way.

The 404 hydraulic is probably a better bet as it is still crazy but still hydraulic - so less maintenance.

[swanny71]

Mine was a hydraulic 404, fully mapped by Mark Adams and still horrible around town/on slower roads.
I'm still waiting to get a slot with Mark to re-map for the Stealth cam, but even unmapped the Stealth is much nicer than the 404.

[dbv8]

It would be interesting to know the specs for duration, lift and overlap etc for the 404 cam compared to the other solid cams on the market.
If someone could tell me then i would consider purchasing the full 404M kit otherwise im going for a 238.
PM me and i promise not to tell.

[rev-erend]

I think Rob told me it was the same or similar to the M248 .. hope he does not shot me for that

So 300 degrees vs 285/290 for the M238

Although that was for the M404 and not the hydraulic version which may well have softer ramps to save the hydraulic lifters taking a kicking.

http://www.btinternet.com/~jon.wolfe/kentcamdata.h...

[dbv8]

Thanks for that.
If i can get it confirmed then i will definately order a kit.

[dbv8]

rev-erend said:

I think Rob told me it was the same or similar to the M248 .. hope he does not shot me for that

So 300 degrees vs 285/290 for the M238

Although that was for the M404 and not the hydraulic version which may well have softer ramps to save the hydraulic lifters taking a kicking.

http://www.btinternet.com/~jon.wolfe/kentcamdata.h...

On the V8D website they price the 404 Hydraulic and Mechanical kits then have a 'specials' section for 248's and upwards which would suggest the 404 isnt the same spec as the 248. I suspect less lift and duration on the 404.
Im not going to buy a cam i dont know the spec of.

[v8 racing]

dbv8 said:

rev-erend said:

I think Rob told me it was the same or similar to the M248 .. hope he does not shot me for that

So 300 degrees vs 285/290 for the M238

Although that was for the M404 and not the hydraulic version which may well have softer ramps to save the hydraulic lifters taking a kicking.

http://www.btinternet.com/~jon.wolfe/kentcamdata.h...

On the V8D website they price the 404 Hydraulic and Mechanical kits then have a 'specials' section for 248's and upwards which would suggest the 404 isnt the same spec as the 248. I suspect less lift and duration on the 404.
Im not going to buy a cam i dont know the spec of.

the 404 has 310 deg dur on both inlet and exhaust 537 thou lift again on both and lca depended on customer, as i have said now several times on private email you need a speicial cam doing if you want it to work properly on nitrous, i have given my recomendations which i think will work fine in your motor, which you came back with by saying i think i am going to buy a 238, fine go and buy a 238, it is a good cam but you wont be optimising your gas or with any other of the shelf cam! If you no what you want just phone piper or kent and they will grind you a cam you want.

Edited by v8 racing on Thursday 22 October 20:42