Time to change injectors.

[panic]

I want to change my Griff 500 injectors (at last, they're 13 years old...), where could I find the stock ones NEW, or, eventually, some direct bolt in slightly upgraded ones...but where I would not need a remap the ecu to get the best out of them?

Thanks.

[sumoone]

i've been advised by my indy that vauxhall 2.0 vectra injectors fit and that secondhand may be the way to go

i have bought eight (on fleabay) for approx 30 pounds and am getting quotes for cleaning and refurb

mark

[RichB]

You wouldn't use 2nd hand plugs so I don't understand why you'd fit used injectors?

[spend]

Stop fking about Gus and get the ecu changed, you can then install whatever injectors you want, as well as ditching the clockwork dizzy and leaving behind any suspicion of wiring faults.

Otherwise just go to your plan B and bolt a carb on...

[panic]

spend said:

Stop fking about Gus and get the ecu changed, you can then install whatever injectors you want, as well as ditching the clockwork dizzy and leaving behind any suspicion of wiring faults.

Otherwise just go to your plan B and bolt a carb on...

You're sooo right. If I was in UK I would not think it twice, I'd go streight with an aftermaket ecu and would give to a professional garage to fix it correctly+tuning etc...but where I live in nothen Spain I do not find around any to do the job properly.

Plan B, Tim of ACT would give me a new Weber/edelb carb plus intake and ancillaries in exchange of my used triple carbon plenum, intake and ancillaries...maybe this is the path to go..

[GreenV8S]

panic said:

I want to change my Griff 500 injectors (at last, they're 13 years old...), where could I find the stock ones NEW,

You can get your existing ones flow tested, cleaned and serviced for less than the cost of new ones, and that would be a much easier and safer bet. Can't think why you would prefer to buy new (unless you knew there was a terminal problem with one) but if you're determined to buy new for some reason then either look for a RR Classic or go through a TVR specialist.

panic said:

or, eventually, some direct bolt in slightly upgraded ones...but where I would not need a remap the ecu to get the best out of them?

Thanks.

I don't think such a thing exists. There are ones which have a higher flow rate, but you would absolutely certainly need a remap to suit them. There are some that have a different spray pattern (with pros and cons) and you'd probably need a remap to suit those too.

[Bodmin]

sumoone said:

i've been advised by my indy that vauxhall 2.0 vectra injectors fit and that secondhand may be the way to go

i have bought eight (on fleabay) for approx 30 pounds and am getting quotes for cleaning and refurb

mark

Hi Mark

You can't go saying things like that otherwise Hoover will get his knickers in a twist again.......

[quote]
Hoover.
Wednesday 5th August quote
Bodmin said:
A little tip Lord Grover..... if you want a better injector go to your local scrapyard & get 8 Vectra 1.8-2.0 injectors...although the Crawley scrappies are probably empty by now...lots of RV8 & Cerbs are running around on them wink

The Vectra injectors are a straight swap Bosch unit which have a better spray pattern & higher flow rate, from memory sufficient for engines producing up to about 320-330bhp on the RV8 & 400+ plus on the Cerb.

Bodders

I am personally appalled that it's you that has leaked it to the public.

I work in an industry where there is a code of conduct even when leaving a company, dispite the circumstances. I would not want my name tarnished by not honouring it. People have spent time and money to which you were privilaged to the results...... bad show in IMHO [quote]

Didn't you know its a secret, probably patented by now ...best you warn the indy you use as clearly he should not have told you either....where was it he worked again

Bodders

Edited by Bodmin on Sunday 1st November 19:34

[sumoone]

hi bodders

thanks for the heads up


whats this then the bloody magic circle?


magic mark

[eliot]

Bodmin said:

The Vectra injectors are a straight swap Bosch unit which have a better spray pattern & higher flow rate, from memory sufficient for engines producing up to about 320-330bhp on the RV8 & 400+ plus on the Cerb.

If they have a higher flow rate - then surely the ECU would need remapping?
(Ok, I know that most big engined TVR's go lean at high RPM, but at idle it would be rich and the ECU would have to work overtime trying to get lambda)

[blitzracing]

Worth a read:

http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0...

[Hoover.]

Bodmin said:

sumoone said:

i've been advised by my indy that vauxhall 2.0 vectra injectors fit and that secondhand may be the way to go

i have bought eight (on fleabay) for approx 30 pounds and am getting quotes for cleaning and refurb

mark

Hi Mark

You can't go saying things like that otherwise Hoover will get his knickers in a twist again.......

[quote]
Hoover.
Wednesday 5th August quote
Bodmin said:
A little tip Lord Grover..... if you want a better injector go to your local scrapyard & get 8 Vectra 1.8-2.0 injectors...although the Crawley scrappies are probably empty by now...lots of RV8 & Cerbs are running around on them wink

The Vectra injectors are a straight swap Bosch unit which have a better spray pattern & higher flow rate, from memory sufficient for engines producing up to about 320-330bhp on the RV8 & 400+ plus on the Cerb.

Bodders

I am personally appalled that it's you that has leaked it to the public.

I work in an industry where there is a code of conduct even when leaving a company, dispite the circumstances. I would not want my name tarnished by not honouring it. People have spent time and money to which you were privilaged to the results...... bad show in IMHO [quote]

Didn't you know its a secret, probably patented by now ...best you warn the indy you use as clearly he should not have told you either....where was it he worked again

Bodders

Edited by Bodmin on Sunday 1st November 19:34

I'm allowed to get my knickers in a twist if I want ... makes my balls nice n tight LOL.

I'm not protecting any indy as my injector dealings were not with an TVR indy, and were fitted by a Morgan specialist who run their own race cars.

Edited by Hoover. on Tuesday 3rd November 00:00

[eliot]

blitzracing said:

Worth a read:

http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0...

Good to see mark confirming that the std injectors are maxed out. When we Megasquirted Matt's grif 500, we saw the engine going lean at high RPM and really couldn't understand how TVR claimed such crazy bhp figures on those injectors. I've got a set of almost new LS1 injectors sat in the shed if anyone wants them (got them from fiveomotorsport funnily enough)

[spitfire4v8]

The std injectors are good for 350hp (there are some things mentioned in the other thread which i dont agree with and cannot replicate in my own testing, with mappable ecus which eliminates the argument for not being able to have have full control over the testing),

I don't run into problems on acceleration fuelling pushing std injectors to their limits either (because you only use acceleration fuelling when opening from part load, where injector durations are shorter than full load anyway. also accel fuelling is transient, it exists over only a few engine turns and you need less of it the higher the revs and throttle are .. so accel fuelling is greatest at opening from small loads where fuel map numbers are small, that doesn't give you problems. If you're at full throttle using big fuel map numbers you cant addd accel enrichment anyway because you cant go further than full throttle), though if you HAD to use full acceleration on a stone cold engine (with cold running enrichment coming into play) you might run out of the correct mix, but if you had to do that youve probably got more important things to worry about, like your poor driving/anticipation and avoiding that truck coming towards you . In any case, on a cold engine youre unlikely to cause any damage as it should be mapped for about lambda 0.8 on hot running anyway, you probably have about 20% (or less under load) of cold running enrichment so you're likely to be around lambda=1 at worst which is still fine for short bursts without causing damage. This is worst case scenario and if you were in that situation you should have gone for more flow, but certainly 320-330hp is well within the flow/mixture limits of stock injectors for all eventualities imo.
Beware of going for higher flow for the sake of it .. Ive got a firebreathing 5.5 litre chim in at the moment on std pressure but bigger injectors. the peak fuel map numbers are at 100-110 (out of 255) and at idle/closed throttle it's in single figures on the fuel map, you cannot get good map resolution at low numbers so you miss out on fine mapping exactly at the point you need it most, it's also vital in cases like this to have the vacuum on the regulator connected to bleed pressure away at high vacuum and give you more resolution on your mapping on light loads. On some ecus you can change the duration of opening per bit in the ecu software but it doesnt change the duration, just the fuel number in the map. It means you get better resolution on the mapping number, but you're still working at small durations in time where injector opening and closing becomes a significant part of the total duration which can cause atomisation issues with the disc or pintle being close to the seat for a significant proportion of the total duration period.

The important things to consider are the sizing of injector for the REAL hp you're producing and don't get seduced into thinking bigger is better.

Edited by spitfire4v8 on Tuesday 3rd November 10:00

[spend]

Exactly Joo, we've seen a few examples on here of posters simply claiming 'bragging rights' on injector sizing

It also enhances the idea that for extremely powerful motors to be drivable staged injectors might be ideal. Something that you may want to take into consideration when ecu shopping? One thing that has always made the ears twitch when TB's with injectors are discussed

[spitfire4v8]

Bodmin said:

sumoone said:

i've been advised by my indy that vauxhall 2.0 vectra injectors fit and that secondhand may be the way to go

i have bought eight (on fleabay) for approx 30 pounds and am getting quotes for cleaning and refurb

mark

Hi Mark

You can't go saying things like that otherwise Hoover will get his knickers in a twist again.......

[quote]
Hoover.
Wednesday 5th August quote
Bodmin said:
A little tip Lord Grover..... if you want a better injector go to your local scrapyard & get 8 Vectra 1.8-2.0 injectors...although the Crawley scrappies are probably empty by now...lots of RV8 & Cerbs are running around on them wink

The Vectra injectors are a straight swap Bosch unit which have a better spray pattern & higher flow rate, from memory sufficient for engines producing up to about 320-330bhp on the RV8 & 400+ plus on the Cerb.

Bodders

I am personally appalled that it's you that has leaked it to the public.

I work in an industry where there is a code of conduct even when leaving a company, dispite the circumstances. I would not want my name tarnished by not honouring it. People have spent time and money to which you were privilaged to the results...... bad show in IMHO [quote]

Didn't you know its a secret, probably patented by now ...best you warn the indy you use as clearly he should not have told you either....where was it he worked again

Bodders

Edited by Bodmin on Sunday 1st November 19:34

I think some of that got a bit disorientated in the quoting earlier but do i read it correctly? .. a certain tuner has been raiding scrapyards to get injectors for customer cars? I must have read it wrong .

[Bodmin]

spitfire4v8 said:

I think some of that got a bit disorientated in the quoting earlier but do i read it correctly? .. a certain tuner has been raiding scrapyards to get injectors for customer cars? I must have read it wrong .

No, you didn't misread that part Joo.

The scrap yard obviously thought they where a registered charity because they always seem to be free.....

Bodders

[Bodmin]

eliot said:

Bodmin said:

The Vectra injectors are a straight swap Bosch unit which have a better spray pattern & higher flow rate, from memory sufficient for engines producing up to about 320-330bhp on the RV8 & 400+ plus on the Cerb.

If they have a higher flow rate - then surely the ECU would need remapping?
(Ok, I know that most big engined TVR's go lean at high RPM, but at idle it would be rich and the ECU would have to work overtime trying to get lambda)

I can't remember the figures but the Vectra Bosch flow rate is not that much higher than the Lucas injector but has a better spray pattern which people have commented makes the engine feel smoother.

These are not the Bosch 'red tops' which have a far greater flow rate which may cause over fueling on a standard map.

Bodders

[panic]

Do you know the part no. of the Griffith 500 stock Lucas injectors and its flow capacity?

[eliot]

panic said:

Do you know the part no. of the Griffith 500 stock Lucas injectors and its flow capacity?

As I undertand it, its the std 3.9 injector.

[robrover]

I'd recommend swapping the Lucas for Ford Motorsport 4.6/5.0 Mustang injectors.

They're available from Mustangs Unlimited - 8 New Uprated Ford Racing Uprated High Flow Fuel Injectors, 19 lbs/hr EV-1 for 1986-1995 Mustang with EFI 5.0L/4.6L V8 engine.
Part number M9593-C302 -0
Price US$209.95
http://www.mustangsunlimited.com/itemdy00.asp?T1=M...

They are the four hole type providing superior fuel atomisation.

These are the same yellow top injectors that FiveO-motorsport sell for US$330.

The following thread on Discoweb discusses they're advantages
www.discoweb.org/FORUMS/showthread.php?t=44942

Summit Racing also sell them for US$219.

They can be used to replace the much more costly Lucas injectors and provide superior fueling.

The new Bosch Design III injectors are also supposed to work well if not better but they're more expensive and FiveO-motorsport who sells them also do not recommend them for 14CUX systems.