Rust on chassis, 10 years old

[DustyC]

As you probably know I have looked at a few 10 year old (ish) Griffs witha view to buying.

Im confident on mostly all issues apart from one, chassis rust.

A steel chassis with a crap coating thats 10 years old is going to have surface rust on it. I can accept that.
But just how much is bad and how much is good? How can I test to ensure the rust isnt too bad?

Obviously if it has holes in, its bad, very bad!
If it flakes away as I touch it, is that bad or normal?

Im OK with having to treat, hammerite and waxoyl the chassis as on going maintenance but I'll need a good base to start on. Has anyone done this to a Griff yet? Is it even necessary on Griffs?

Perhaps I was just on the S forum too long and am paranoid!

[wixer]

Yeh, done mine. Do a search on POR15 and you should find what I said. I personally wouldn't touch a car with any holes or serious rot in the chassis, surface rust and flaky paint is OK.

[DustyC]

Thanks, Im OK on the technicalities of chassis restoration though. This is the majority topic on the S forum and I have saved a few!

What I really want to know is what is normal, what should I expect to see on a 10 year old Griff that is for sale from a dealer, (ie not private).

Would a well looked after Griff still be accepted as having surface rust?

[wixer]

I would say yes. I've seen cars of four/five years old, with chassis' in worst condition than mine was.

[homersimpson]

I bought my 1992 last year with very low mileage and dry stored. The chassis still had flaking paint even down to the metal in parts. This is the norm and you will be very lucky to find one without this unless a previous owner has treated it.
Pete VG

[icamm]

I think you can probably use your own judgement - if it looks bad then it's bad enough to worry about.

Some cars will have serious problems - some will have flaky coating and minor rust. However, if the coating is flaky I would have a good look underneath before you buy (IE peel off the coating).

My car was diagnosed with rusty outriggers in 2001 (It's a Dec 92 car) and when the specialist looked he said it only needed a scrape and paint. However, when they did the scrape if turned out to need alot more than that. Luckily there were no holes but it did end up being a full body off refurb - which costs about £4k if done by one of the good independants.

[RichB]

DustyC said:

How can I test to ensure the rust isnt too bad?

Dusty, just take a small screwdriver with you and have a good dig around, anything that looks suspect, jab the screwdriver into the rust to test it for solidity. Rich...

[griffter]

I think as much as you can do is to take a screwdriver, ask owner's permission, and poke around underneath. A small mirror is useful too.
I bought a '92 in need of immediate strip and paint, but the point is I could see what needed to be done as the only 'protective' coating was dirt and oil. If the car you're looking at has just had a fresh coat of waxoyl, how do you know what the chassis is like underneath? You don't - So I'm photographing my resto as I go. Hopefully that will give some peace of mind to a subsequent owner. Admittedly I've had a few 'heart in mouth' moments, as large flakes have come away at the insistence of my screwdriver - but these turn out to be paint/dirt with rust stuck to them. Rust expands as metal corrodes and looks worse than it is. Clearly any rust is bad news, but it's also inevitable. My test is simply to be fairly brutal with the screwdriver and thankfully all seems well.
Dealers/specialists etc will do a 'scrape' and 'waxoyl' for £80 - £150. Admittedly this is better than nothing, but unless you've got a virtually rust-free chassis to start with, it's just postponing the inevitable.
If the original coating's come away and the water's got in (which it will have done in the majority of cases I guess), you have to remove all the rust (which can't be done with a wire brush alone and certainly can't be done in a couple of hours!), clean and degrease, then paint.
OK I'm an obsessive perfectionist and my chassis project (original forecast: 3 days) is now in its 3rd month. Thing is early Griffs are now so old, and were so woefully unprotected in the first place, that more and more are going to need drastic action.

icamm - what was about your chassis that necessitated body-off work? ie how was the extent of corrosion assessed to be that bad?

[DustyC]

Thanks for your time and help everyone.
I shall start to take a couple of screwdrivers and a mirror in future.

I have seen varying examples ranging from perfect, to flaky paint to expanded corrosion.
It was the slghtly expanded corrosion one that concerned me. Hopefully if I get to visit it or a similar one again a dig around with a screw driver will tell me the extent of the problem.

Multiple choice question
The rust was so that when I rubbed my hand across it the rust was flaking off.

Could this be considered
a) very bad , run away
b) not too much bother scrape it off and treat/coat it.
c) dont know till probed with screwdriver
d) "they are all like that sir"

[wixer]

A: c

If in doubt, jab it with a screwdriver. It's surprising how a piece of metal, that looks like it's just covered in surface rust, is actually rotten. Trust me, I used to own a Triumph Stag, always give it a good poke with a screwdriver

[DustyC]

wixer said:

Trust me, I used to own a Triumph Stag, always give it a good poke with a screwdriver

What a good line! Do you pull with that one?!

Thanks for the advice. I should knwo better really. I use to work at a Refinery on the coast where EVERYTHING is made of rust! Didnt use spanners to undo nuts/bolts, only a hammer and chiesel would work!

I'll let you know how my screwdriver stabbing goes. Fingers crossed it doesnt go far and stops abruptly against nice solid steel.

[The Bodyman]

This looks bad but its just surface rust. As long as there's no holes you should be OK.



Jon
www.tvrbodyrepairs.com

[icamm]

Griffter, the requirment to remove the body was determined by the severity of the rust . The original specialist doing the "scrape and paint" got to the point that they could not clean the chassis enough without lifting the body. There were two options of "body off". The first was just to lift the body by a few inches to allow access to the top of the chassis rails. The second (and the one I decided on) was to go for a complete chassis strip and re-coat.

I decided to do it properly as I felt that just a "body lift" job would only contain the problem for a few more years whilst the full strip would give the chassis another 10-30 years life if done properly and looked after properly afterwards.

My problem was the standard outrigger problem (central part of the chassis was perfect).

[pies]

Dusty if a ten year old tvr has been neglected it will be showing signs of rust and in certain place it will be bad

I would look at the chassis and try to see it its been maintained i.e it shouldbe be covered in waxoyl at least and maybe some touch up painting,

If the chassis is dry (no waxoyl) have a very very good look
If in doubt, or your not allowed to scrape the surface to check,walk away

[jigs]

With all Griffiths/Chimaeras being collectible and the oldest being 12 years old there will be a steady demand for refurbished chassis - good business venture for someone who gets their act together. After the first one or two the time and material costs would reduce - offer a chassis exchange service for quick turnround.

[DustyC]

You feeling alright jigs? That was a really sensible post. Perhaps this is a topic close to your heart and not to be joked about!

Thanks all. Pictures were good. Although I could see that that was only surface rust I would still be shocked to see a chassis looking like that. Although its plain to see its a good one.

Anyway. Thanks all. I'll let you all know how it goes.
Ad.