That damned mess in the footwell
Discussion
guys, I've been upside down in the passenger footwell all afternoon playing with ideas for the battery etc. and sadly it seems after making a mock Odyssey PC925 battery it won't fit behind the seat like I'd hoped.
So it looks like I'm back to swapping the battery for a PC925 but putting it in the same place.
Now I'm looking at tidying the mess down there up a bit, and I have a couple of questions.
The fuseboard appears to have just 1 bolt at the bottom holding it on - is this right because I've removed the nut but can't pull the fuseboard out.
Down the side of the tunnel, are two things which are getting in each others way. A bit lump of wiring loom and the heater water pipes.
I'm sure the lump of loom should tucked up towards the bulkhead, rather than coming down towards the cockpit, and this would give a bit more space for the water pipes to be tucked up between the heater box and the tunnel instead of hanging all over the battery and passenger feet.
Does this sound right before I git it a go, because to get that lump of wires turned around and pushed forward is going to be a hell of a fight.
Any help, tips or pointers will be very gratefully received.
Thanks
Ian
So it looks like I'm back to swapping the battery for a PC925 but putting it in the same place.
Now I'm looking at tidying the mess down there up a bit, and I have a couple of questions.
The fuseboard appears to have just 1 bolt at the bottom holding it on - is this right because I've removed the nut but can't pull the fuseboard out.
Down the side of the tunnel, are two things which are getting in each others way. A bit lump of wiring loom and the heater water pipes.
I'm sure the lump of loom should tucked up towards the bulkhead, rather than coming down towards the cockpit, and this would give a bit more space for the water pipes to be tucked up between the heater box and the tunnel instead of hanging all over the battery and passenger feet.
Does this sound right before I git it a go, because to get that lump of wires turned around and pushed forward is going to be a hell of a fight.
Any help, tips or pointers will be very gratefully received.
Thanks
Ian
There's one bolt in the bottom of the fuseboard and several cable ties at the top. The whole fibreglass surround comes out too still attached to the board.
The "lump of wires" you talk about sounds like it's the main ECU loom. A lot of the "hanging" bits are redundant for a variety of reasons - eg Range Rover immobiliser wiring (not used), aircon stuff (again not used if you don't have aircon) and a few other bits.
I found that none of it was particularly nice in my car and it did all get in the way of everything else. Most of it's gone now
Your plan ought to work.
The "lump of wires" you talk about sounds like it's the main ECU loom. A lot of the "hanging" bits are redundant for a variety of reasons - eg Range Rover immobiliser wiring (not used), aircon stuff (again not used if you don't have aircon) and a few other bits.
I found that none of it was particularly nice in my car and it did all get in the way of everything else. Most of it's gone now
Your plan ought to work.Thanks for the quick response dnb, I'll have a feel for the cable ties, I didn't even think there would be any of them holding it up so I'd never have found them. Cheers mate, top man 
The load of ecu wires and trailing leads etc I've identified and pulled out, I'll find a way of tidying them up when I've got the smaller battery in.
The loop I;m talking about is excess wire coming from the dash to the fusebooard. I want to take the board out so I can ease the loop up towards the bulkhead without straining the wires behind the fuses.
Are your water pipes tucked up or tied up? Or does the valve motor sit on the battery like mine does?
I can get a photo of all this if it might help anyone explain where it all actually should be.
ETA: Actually, I say I can get a photo, its such a mess I'm not sure one photo will get it all.
The load of ecu wires and trailing leads etc I've identified and pulled out, I'll find a way of tidying them up when I've got the smaller battery in.
The loop I;m talking about is excess wire coming from the dash to the fusebooard. I want to take the board out so I can ease the loop up towards the bulkhead without straining the wires behind the fuses.
Are your water pipes tucked up or tied up? Or does the valve motor sit on the battery like mine does?
I can get a photo of all this if it might help anyone explain where it all actually should be.
ETA: Actually, I say I can get a photo, its such a mess I'm not sure one photo will get it all.
Edited by Barreti on Sunday 21st February 21:06
have you got a southern accent as well ???Quinny said:
Barreti said:
Oh no.
Lusting for ramp
Painted the chassis
Tidying up wiring
Am I becoming....
MiniQuinny
Could be worse...... You could become a Mini PascoLusting for ramp
Painted the chassis
Tidying up wiring
Am I becoming....
MiniQuinny
By the way, I think you may have a couple of wires crossed, just behind the fuse box, on the left hand side
Edit to ask Ian have you got a link regarding your new battery replacement please mate ?
Edited by Pasco on Monday 22 February 09:52
At the minute, based on some research, it looks like either the Odyssey PC 925 or Varley Red Top 40, and this thread recommends a guy in Leicester so I'll probably give him a shout clicky
But I'm sure I've read about an Odyssey Extreme being used so I need to do some digging about which one. The damned search function is tits-up again though so its difficult to search just the Griff/Chim forums specifically.
For reference though, because I'm trying to create some footspace for my mate, here are the dimensions of the batteries I'm considering
Odyssey 925
Length: 168.6mm
Width: 179mm
Height: 128mm
Varley Red Top 40
Length: 250mm
Depth: 97mm
Height: 202mm
Odyssey Extreme 40
Length: (250.0mm) 9.8in
Width: (97.0mm) 3.8in
Height: (206.0mm) 8.1in
All can be mounted upright or on their side.
Pre-cat Griff battery box
External dimensions, GRP is approx 2-3mm thick
Length: 278mm
Depth: 188mm
Height: 210mm
The battery box is a clever piece of work IMHO and looks like the bottom was moulded from the floor itself.
ETA: Added Extreme 40 sizes after Spend kindly figured out the search function, and again to add the battery box dimensions
But I'm sure I've read about an Odyssey Extreme being used so I need to do some digging about which one. The damned search function is tits-up again though so its difficult to search just the Griff/Chim forums specifically.
For reference though, because I'm trying to create some footspace for my mate, here are the dimensions of the batteries I'm considering
Odyssey 925
Length: 168.6mm
Width: 179mm
Height: 128mm
Varley Red Top 40
Length: 250mm
Depth: 97mm
Height: 202mm
Odyssey Extreme 40
Length: (250.0mm) 9.8in
Width: (97.0mm) 3.8in
Height: (206.0mm) 8.1in
All can be mounted upright or on their side.
Pre-cat Griff battery box
External dimensions, GRP is approx 2-3mm thick
Length: 278mm
Depth: 188mm
Height: 210mm
The battery box is a clever piece of work IMHO and looks like the bottom was moulded from the floor itself.
ETA: Added Extreme 40 sizes after Spend kindly figured out the search function, and again to add the battery box dimensions
Edited by Barreti on Monday 22 February 22:33
Nowt wrong here, and I have been perplexed several times by posts of problems with the search???
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/search4.asp?h=0...
Sure its not versions of browser / java script, I use Galeon/mozilla?
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/search4.asp?h=0...
Sure its not versions of browser / java script, I use Galeon/mozilla?
Bloody marvellous Dave, thanks mate.
I knew there were threads discussing the various Odyssey and Varley batteries somewhere but I couldn't find them either last night or this morning.
BTW, you can also get brackets for both Odyssey and Varley batteries, so mounting them shouldn't be an issue. Just where remains to be decided now, then I'll do it.
I knew there were threads discussing the various Odyssey and Varley batteries somewhere but I couldn't find them either last night or this morning.
BTW, you can also get brackets for both Odyssey and Varley batteries, so mounting them shouldn't be an issue. Just where remains to be decided now, then I'll do it.
Barreti said:
Bloody marvellous Dave, thanks mate.
I knew there were threads discussing the various Odyssey and Varley batteries somewhere but I couldn't find them either last night or this morning.
BTW, you can also get brackets for both Odyssey and Varley batteries, so mounting them shouldn't be an issue. Just where remains to be decided now, then I'll do it.
The Varley Bracket looks good:I knew there were threads discussing the various Odyssey and Varley batteries somewhere but I couldn't find them either last night or this morning.
BTW, you can also get brackets for both Odyssey and Varley batteries, so mounting them shouldn't be an issue. Just where remains to be decided now, then I'll do it.
http://www.varleyredtop.com/pdf/mountingbracketdat...
I used the PC 925 when I moved my battery to the boot in my Chim, been really pleased with it, has shed loads more grunt than the standard one that it replaced.
Bit of waffle here..
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Andy
Andy, that write up was brilliant, you do yourself a great injustice calling it a bit of waffle mate. It was top stuff
It was that which prompted me to get my finger out and start moving stuff.
The huge coil of wires which was long enough to allow you to move the fusebox behind the seat is the coil I think is getting in the way of my water pipes and pushing the valve and motor down so they are sitting on the battery
Sadly, I don't think I can move the fuseboard because I have Cerb seats which are very tight to the tunnel as it is, so I'd be worried about damaging the wires if I ran them down the tunnel as you have.
My ideas both work around the fuseboard staying put but doing something with just the battery and ECU
It was also your comments on the PC925 battery which led to me making a mock up of this battery to have a play with yesterday.
The PC925 is quite square (168x179mm) and short (128mm) but a bit too big to fit into the recess behind the seat neatly.
It might be OK sitting on the floor in place of the regular battery though, and allowing the passenger to put their heels either against it or down either side (protected by one of the aluminium brackets you can buy for it)
It can be flipped around so the terminals are at the back out of the way too.
The Red Top / Extreme 40 batteries are different in that they are very thin (97mm) but wider (250mm) and taller (202mm) so lend themselves better to fitting against the bulkhead with something then protecting the battery/fuseboard - a sort of alloy rally footrest is my idea, which can be unclipped and rolled forward to gain access to the battery/fuses.
Or the battery could also be bolted to the floor laying on their sides like the PC925 could, again allowing the passenger to put their heels on it.
As I've just found the sizes of these though so I need to make a mock-up to try. Thats a job for this week.
Edited about 10 times to correct stuff !!
It was that which prompted me to get my finger out and start moving stuff.
The huge coil of wires which was long enough to allow you to move the fusebox behind the seat is the coil I think is getting in the way of my water pipes and pushing the valve and motor down so they are sitting on the battery
Sadly, I don't think I can move the fuseboard because I have Cerb seats which are very tight to the tunnel as it is, so I'd be worried about damaging the wires if I ran them down the tunnel as you have.
My ideas both work around the fuseboard staying put but doing something with just the battery and ECU
It was also your comments on the PC925 battery which led to me making a mock up of this battery to have a play with yesterday.
The PC925 is quite square (168x179mm) and short (128mm) but a bit too big to fit into the recess behind the seat neatly.
It might be OK sitting on the floor in place of the regular battery though, and allowing the passenger to put their heels either against it or down either side (protected by one of the aluminium brackets you can buy for it)
It can be flipped around so the terminals are at the back out of the way too.
The Red Top / Extreme 40 batteries are different in that they are very thin (97mm) but wider (250mm) and taller (202mm) so lend themselves better to fitting against the bulkhead with something then protecting the battery/fuseboard - a sort of alloy rally footrest is my idea, which can be unclipped and rolled forward to gain access to the battery/fuses.
Or the battery could also be bolted to the floor laying on their sides like the PC925 could, again allowing the passenger to put their heels on it.
As I've just found the sizes of these though so I need to make a mock-up to try. Thats a job for this week.
Edited about 10 times to correct stuff !!
Edited by Barreti on Monday 22 February 12:33
Barreti said:
At the minute, based on some research, it looks like either the Odyssey PC 925 or Varley Red Top 40, and this thread recommends a guy in Leicester so I'll probably give him a shout clicky
But I'm sure I've read about an Odyssey Extreme being used so I need to do some digging about which one. The damned search function is tits-up again though so its difficult to search just the Griff/Chim forums specifically.
For reference though, because I'm trying to create some footspace for my mate, here are the dimensions of the batteries I'm considering
Odyssey 925
Length: 168.6mm
Width: 179mm
Height: 128mm
Varley Red Top 40
Length: 250mm
Depth: 97mm
Height: 202mm
Odyssey Extreme 40
Length: (250.0mm) 9.8in
Width: (97.0mm) 3.8in
Height: (206.0mm) 8.1in
All can be mounted upright or on their side.
ETA: Added Extreme 40 sizes after Spend kindly figured out the search function.
Thanks Ian good luck mate But I'm sure I've read about an Odyssey Extreme being used so I need to do some digging about which one. The damned search function is tits-up again though so its difficult to search just the Griff/Chim forums specifically.
For reference though, because I'm trying to create some footspace for my mate, here are the dimensions of the batteries I'm considering
Odyssey 925
Length: 168.6mm
Width: 179mm
Height: 128mm
Varley Red Top 40
Length: 250mm
Depth: 97mm
Height: 202mm
Odyssey Extreme 40
Length: (250.0mm) 9.8in
Width: (97.0mm) 3.8in
Height: (206.0mm) 8.1in
All can be mounted upright or on their side.
ETA: Added Extreme 40 sizes after Spend kindly figured out the search function.
Edited by Barreti on Monday 22 February 11:17
MPoxon said:
Barreti said:
Bloody marvellous Dave, thanks mate.
I knew there were threads discussing the various Odyssey and Varley batteries somewhere but I couldn't find them either last night or this morning.
BTW, you can also get brackets for both Odyssey and Varley batteries, so mounting them shouldn't be an issue. Just where remains to be decided now, then I'll do it.
The Varley Bracket looks good:I knew there were threads discussing the various Odyssey and Varley batteries somewhere but I couldn't find them either last night or this morning.
BTW, you can also get brackets for both Odyssey and Varley batteries, so mounting them shouldn't be an issue. Just where remains to be decided now, then I'll do it.
http://www.varleyredtop.com/pdf/mountingbracketdat...
The only real solution as said by others is to get rid of all the unused Landy stuff in the loom. There was a Land Rover tag on my old loom and all the extra cables and relay sockets made it difficult to figure out what went where. With after market ECUs which tend to be a bit smaller there is an ideal ledge under the dash just above the glove box. Not certain that the Lucus box would sit in there however.
Before ripping out the Landy loom and making a new one I found you could tidy things up a bit and get more room by fitting a smaller battery ( Red top 20 or Red top 15) With either of those you can mount the Lucus ECU against the bulkhead and also loose all the spaghetti behind the battery and still gain two inches of leg room. The smaller of the two batteries are only 17Ah so won’t keep the immobiliser happy for more than a few days, an easy fix for that is another small battery conncted in parallel behind the seat. Currently I use just one Red Top 15 and plug in a trickle charger when home. Oh and a smaller battery is less weight so more BHP per Tonne
Before ripping out the Landy loom and making a new one I found you could tidy things up a bit and get more room by fitting a smaller battery ( Red top 20 or Red top 15) With either of those you can mount the Lucus ECU against the bulkhead and also loose all the spaghetti behind the battery and still gain two inches of leg room. The smaller of the two batteries are only 17Ah so won’t keep the immobiliser happy for more than a few days, an easy fix for that is another small battery conncted in parallel behind the seat. Currently I use just one Red Top 15 and plug in a trickle charger when home. Oh and a smaller battery is less weight so more BHP per Tonne
I can't make any sense of the Varley numbering system Steve. Do the numbers mean nothing in terms of the power of the battery?
I thought the bigger the number the higher the battery power but the Red Top 15 seems to be bigger than the Red Top 20
Am I understanding this right?
Installing a 15, and fitting the ECU either to the bulkhead or to the battery tray/fuseboard protector/footrest I'm considering making seems the solution I am looking for
Details of Varley Red Tops
15
13Ah
5.4kg
L x W x H (mm) (actually, Width x Depth x Height as I would want to mount it)
200 x 77 x 133
Recommended for:
Racing cars up to 2.5 Litre using alternator,
Motorcycles, Pit Equipment.
20
13Ah
4.9kg
L x W x H (mm)
176 x 84 x 130
Recommended for:
Racing cars up to 1 Litre using alternator,
Motorcycles, Pit Equipment
I thought the bigger the number the higher the battery power but the Red Top 15 seems to be bigger than the Red Top 20
Am I understanding this right?
Installing a 15, and fitting the ECU either to the bulkhead or to the battery tray/fuseboard protector/footrest I'm considering making seems the solution I am looking for
Details of Varley Red Tops
15
13Ah
5.4kg
L x W x H (mm) (actually, Width x Depth x Height as I would want to mount it)
200 x 77 x 133
Recommended for:
Racing cars up to 2.5 Litre using alternator,
Motorcycles, Pit Equipment.
20
13Ah
4.9kg
L x W x H (mm)
176 x 84 x 130
Recommended for:
Racing cars up to 1 Litre using alternator,
Motorcycles, Pit Equipment
Edited by Barreti on Wednesday 24th February 09:40
I agree the numbering system does seem odd, I can only assume it was the order they introduced them in. Asked the guys at DT and they had no answer either. Have re checked the data and as you say they are 13 and 14 Ah not 17. First of all I used the Redtop 20 for a couple of years but found the female terminals less than ideal. I turned up some adaptors that attached using M6 bolts made so I could fit the standard cables. Problem was the load applied from the thick cables tended to undo the bolts so I adapted the bracket to restrain the cables but that was not really successful. That battery was destroyed by someone that had the car for a few days and left the doors open. I still us it to run a tyre pump but it never really recovered completely. These sort of cells do not handle deep discharge. I replaced that with a Red Top 15 which must be in its fifth year now , I went for the 15 because that is what was in stock. Have found the Male terminals better. I made two brass plates and soldered a number of varying size terminal block connectors to the plate (removed from the plastic ) the plates are shaped to lock against the cell case so they don’t work loose.
When you see the battery size it seems impossible that it will start the car but there is no noticeable difference in cranking speed between a standard 072 and one of the Red Tops. You just have to take care not to let them go flat I guess the worse treatment mine gets is at a Hillclimb weekend where it is repeatedly asked to restart the car without any time to charge up but it seems to cope with a two day meeting ok. Guess if you do a lot of night driving the lights may be slightly less bright at lower engine revs.
Yes the 15 is bigger. For mounting I bent up a two piece bracket the foot of which extends flat on he floor to pick up the standard fixing holes. The Varley ones didn’t quite do what I wanted . Another way of mounting them that I toyed with was a Tesco child’s lunch box. Bolt the box to the floor with a strengthening plate inside. Open the lid and pop the battery in. Job done. All you need to do is cut slots for the cables to exit.
When you see the battery size it seems impossible that it will start the car but there is no noticeable difference in cranking speed between a standard 072 and one of the Red Tops. You just have to take care not to let them go flat I guess the worse treatment mine gets is at a Hillclimb weekend where it is repeatedly asked to restart the car without any time to charge up but it seems to cope with a two day meeting ok. Guess if you do a lot of night driving the lights may be slightly less bright at lower engine revs.
Yes the 15 is bigger. For mounting I bent up a two piece bracket the foot of which extends flat on he floor to pick up the standard fixing holes. The Varley ones didn’t quite do what I wanted . Another way of mounting them that I toyed with was a Tesco child’s lunch box. Bolt the box to the floor with a strengthening plate inside. Open the lid and pop the battery in. Job done. All you need to do is cut slots for the cables to exit.
Gassing Station | Griffith | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff