started..stalled...flooded!! aargh! why do they do that???

[sprevett]

ok so it was my fault I suppose, let the clutch out bit too quick and as the brakes were seized on (not in a big way, just the way they always do when they've been damp..)she stalled....and could I get her to start again? could I buggery. do they all flood that easily? of course I was 250 miles from home and I had to go and buy a new set of plugs to get going again. Lovely job...not. But at Heath's (X-Works) suggestion I put a hotter plug in too as halfords didn't stock the B7ECS (think that's right...you know the ones) and we are in the grip of a Siberian winter AGAIN...

[pincher]

Happened to me when it was really cold, back in January. Opened the garage door, got in, started up, reversed out of garage, switched off, closed garage door, got in, tried to start. Fail!

I blame the temperature and the fact that there must have been a load of fuel dumped in to compensate and I just turned off to quickly.

Couldn't get it going again until a kindly soul (who shall remain nameless ) advised, once he'd stopped laughing at me, to try starting with my right foot flat to the floor. That seemed to do the trick but by crikey, was there a HUGE cloud of smoke from the back!

I've learned my lesson and shan't be making that mistake again in a hurry

[beano500]

Used to happen in my Griff. You're not the only one.

Did it about half a dozen times. Most annoyingly I did it the day I was due to take my sister in law to her wedding

Two cures: one is to go for a walk for twenty minutes, t'other is foot to floor as advocated.

I manage to stall the S6 every so often from cold. They seem to not flood (quite so badly) and will re-start relatively easily on a part open throttle (normal procedure is no throttle at all from cold or warm)

[daveb500]

One tip some of you might find useful. I've got a late 500 with cats (or rather it did have). I've also got a switchable tune resistor. I found that when it is flooded, it starts significantly easier on one of the pre-cat resistors. I assume this is because the Lambda's are not "mucking about" with the fuel? what ever the reason, it works

[blitzracing]

Its down to the origional cold start fuel mapping, Lucas over fueled it horribly, and it can reduced by about 25% without causing a problem. Its one of the things Mark Adams does with his chips. Im not aware that the non cat fuel map should be any different to start with, as the lambda probes correct the overfueling only after about 20 -25 seconds from cold. You can however set the basic idle mixture on the non cat map with the CO trim value on the side of the AFM (instead of having lambda feeback) and its quite possible in non cat mode its running leaner to start with due to this setting.

[swanny71]

Quinny said:

blitzracing said:

Its down to the origional cold start fuel mapping, Lucas over fueled it horribly, and it can reduced by about 25% without causing a problem. Its one of the things Mark Adams does with his chips.

Ahhh, maybe thats why it never happens on my car... Its had an MA Chip ever since I've owned it

Another MA chip here, never flooded............*touches wood*

[jr6yam]

swanny71 said:

Quinny said:

blitzracing said:

Its down to the origional cold start fuel mapping, Lucas over fueled it horribly, and it can reduced by about 25% without causing a problem. Its one of the things Mark Adams does with his chips.

Ahhh, maybe thats why it never happens on my car... Its had an MA Chip ever since I've owned it

Another MA chip here, never flooded............*touches wood*

A MA chip gives you wood!! oooer missus

Anyhoo, back to the thread....
I was thinking of (temporarily) replacing my ECU temp sensor
with a resistor to fool the car into thinking it's hot, d'ya
think this would work?

[blitzracing]

Ooo err...., you could make it work as long as the resistor was switchable for cold starts only, I would not hard wire it, or it will destort the fueling when the engine is hot, and could potentally make it run leaner. A better fix would be to supply the lambda heaters from the ignition switch supply (they are currently in the same switched supply as the fuel pump), then turn on the ignition for 20 seconds or so before starting so the probes are hot on start. This will allow the ECU to reduce the fueling much faster to its correct level as it gets the feedback from the hot probes.

[jr6yam]

blitzracing said:

Ooo err...., you could make it work as long as the resistor was switchable for cold starts only, I would not hard wire it, or it will destort the fueling when the engine is hot, and could potentally make it run leaner. A better fix would be to supply the lambda heaters from the ignition switch supply (they are currently in the same switched supply as the fuel pump), then turn on the ignition for 20 seconds or so before starting so the probes are hot on start. This will allow the ECU to reduce the fueling much faster to its correct level as it gets the feedback from the hot probes.

This wasn't a 'fix' I intended to be permanent, but i'm having some non starting problems
and wanted to eliminate overfueling as a possible cause.

John

[spend]

Symptomatic of your fuel pressure regulator allowing too much pressure?. This was often one of the side effects observed when they tried tuning by raising the fuel pressure in the old days IIRC.

Isn't there some rudimentary flood control on the Lucas if you bury the pedal or something?

[blitzracing]

Im not sure what the ECU would do with a wide open throttle at cranking speed to clear the excess fuel, but you might get away with it as it ignors the AFM input for a few seconds at cranking (and fixes the injector pulse width), but the TP would still give a high input, so it depends how the software configured in the ECU.

[blitzracing]

jr6yam said:

blitzracing said:

Ooo err...., you could make it work as long as the resistor was switchable for cold starts only, I would not hard wire it, or it will destort the fueling when the engine is hot, and could potentally make it run leaner. A better fix would be to supply the lambda heaters from the ignition switch supply (they are currently in the same switched supply as the fuel pump), then turn on the ignition for 20 seconds or so before starting so the probes are hot on start. This will allow the ECU to reduce the fueling much faster to its correct level as it gets the feedback from the hot probes.

This wasn't a 'fix' I intended to be permanent, but i'm having some non starting problems
and wanted to eliminate overfueling as a possible cause.

John

This man could be onto something here. The response of the temp sensor is not linear, with much bigger resistance changes at lower temp's. If you put say a 10k resistor across the sensor it has a much larger effect at say 0'c than at running temp. Typically it will make the engine roughly look 10'c warmer up to around 50'c, and then after that it has much less effect, so by 80'C it has so little effect it can be ignored. Certainly worth a go, as worse case the car wont start if it underfuels when cold.

[jr6yam]

blitzracing said:

jr6yam said:

blitzracing said:

Ooo err...., you could make it work as long as the resistor was switchable for cold starts only, I would not hard wire it, or it will destort the fueling when the engine is hot, and could potentally make it run leaner. A better fix would be to supply the lambda heaters from the ignition switch supply (they are currently in the same switched supply as the fuel pump), then turn on the ignition for 20 seconds or so before starting so the probes are hot on start. This will allow the ECU to reduce the fueling much faster to its correct level as it gets the feedback from the hot probes.

This wasn't a 'fix' I intended to be permanent, but i'm having some non starting problems
and wanted to eliminate overfueling as a possible cause.

John

This man could be onto something here. The response of the temp sensor is not linear, with much bigger resistance changes at lower temp's. If you put say a 10k resistor across the sensor it has a much larger effect at say 0'c than at running temp. Typically it will make the engine roughly look 10'c warmer up to around 50'c, and then after that it has much less effect, so by 80'C it has so little effect it can be ignored. Certainly worth a go, as worse case the car wont start if it underfuels when cold.

Thanks

I've got Friday off to 'tinker'. Will post if it works

[jr6yam]

Didn't get anywhere, car still won't start
The plugs are wet so there's fuel going in, the spark
although present looks a bit feeble.
I'm wondering if my ignition amp is duff

John

[Simon.b]

Mine does this and I’ve learnt the hard way how to avoid it, so…

Start as normal, for me this is no throttle just let it catch, don’t touch the throttle for a minute. Then just gently, if she pick’s up then fine, if she fluffs a bit leave her for a few seconds longer and try again.

If you rush it and she stall’s do not attempt to restart for at least 5 minutes or she’ll flood then you right in it and going know where.

Cheers,

Simon.

[Targarama]

Not sure why some of you are needing new plugs for a simple flooding unless something else is amiss. When my old Chimaera did this all I needed to do was to reach into the passenger footwell and remove the fuel pump relay (bit metal one), start the car like normal and it will catch and run for a second or two before stalling (uses up the fuel in the system). Then reconnect relay (after turning off ignition!), start her up and roar away. Simple.

[Del 203]

pincher said:

Couldn't get it going again until a kindly soul (who shall remain nameless ) advised, once he'd stopped laughing at me

x 999999999999999999999999


Missed this 1st time round

[pincher]

Isn't it time you took the dog for a walk?

[Del 203]

pincher said:

Isn't it time you took the dog for a walk?

7:00 p.m. Sundays

[Blues]

Targarama said:

Not sure why some of you are needing new plugs for a simple flooding unless something else is amiss. When my old Chimaera did this all I needed to do was to reach into the passenger footwell and remove the fuel pump relay (bit metal one), start the car like normal and it will catch and run for a second or two before stalling (uses up the fuel in the system). Then reconnect relay (after turning off ignition!), start her up and roar away. Simple.

This is the solution i use on the rare occasions when i flood my SC Chim