Early 500 question

[jimmyVX]

Would a 1993 Griffith 500 on an 'L' have a pre-serp engine with an LR gearbox? Are there any downsides or negatives to be aware of with an early car? Thanks

[Ant.]

jimmyVX said:

Would a 1993 Griffith 500 on an 'L' have a pre-serp engine with an LR gearbox? Are there any downsides or negatives to be aware of with an early car? Thanks

Nothing is certain with TVR's !
But , yes there is a high probability that it will have the pre-serp front end and the LT77 box, backed up with a GKN diff.

[jimmyVX]

Thanks for your reply, are there any negatives or positives surrounding the LR gearbox? What is different with the serp and pre-serp set up?

[peaktorque]

The LT77 gearbox I had on my Wedge was a bit hit and miss when it came to gearchanges esp. 2nd-3rd, fine once you got used to it though and it did need new remote linkage bushes. They are supposed to be weaker than the T5 and they also have an internal oil pump, so another thing to go wrong. I much prefer the precise nature of the gearchange on the T5. I've never experienced an LT77 on a Griff though as I believe that the have a different linkage set-up.

The pre-serp engine uses the earlier style oil pump driven from the distributor drive and uses a V shaped belt to drive the alternator etc rather than flat. I don't think that there is too much internal difference.

[Pasco]

Just my opinion but i would hang on for a T5 and serp combination if i were you

Just a better set up imho

HTH

[David Beer]

I had a 94 500 and now have 99 500, the 94 never went wrong, this one has had engine rebuilds(3) and one gearbox!! My fault for changing from standard spec though. Not much help really, just go for a standard car, unless you want mine!!

[steve-V8s]

I have the T5 box in the Griff and had ( I think ) the LT77 in the V8S. Cant say I can report a significant difference in how slickly they shift. Both sometimes need you to show them 1st before they are interested in selecting reverse so personally I would not be put off by the earlier box. What I think is a significant benefit of Serpentine cars is the improved oil pump arrangement. On the earlier engine getting the pump to prime can be a challenge, you can even have problems after an oil change if you take too long about it also If you want to ditch the Dizzy at some point and fit a proper ignition system you can simply remove it and plug the hole. Rumour has it that some of the early 500s had cross bolted bottom ends, if the car you are looking at has that then the benefit of that far outweighs the oil pump issue.

[Hoover.]

I've had both T5 and LT77 in my Griff.

The LT77 seems to have a longer 2nd gear then the T5, and whilst the LT77 is supposed to be less reliable I believe it is substantially cheaper to get repaired.

[Bluebottle]

I've had both, and my old pre serp 500 had a stonking engine and a I much preferred the LT77 gear change over the notchy T5 box I have now.
Both good and reliable, but if you intend mods in the future then you would be better hanging out for a serp with T5 box.

Diffs - the GKN has Quafe ATB internals and is a better diff (used in the tuscan racers) BUT..they are getting rare. Whilst you can rebuild the lsd, you cannot get new crown & pinion wheel should you brake it. The BTR has a salisbury plate lsd (not as good imho) and can easily be rebuilt. You can now get them rebuilt with Quafe ATB internals so its the better one to go for, but you are looking at about mid 95 onwards for a Griff to have all 3 elements, serp, T5 & BTR.

E.T.A. forgot to say, the later serp engines have a much improved oil pump/filter set up over the pre serps which are prone to low oil pressure.

Edited by Bluebottle on Saturday 27th February 22:23

[jesfirth]

also the age of the car does not define the gearbox type. Mine is an early 94 500 and it has a T5 box. Its easy to tell which box is which - the reverse is in a different place.

[The AJP Griff]

I wouldn't worry too much about which engine/gearbox combo it has to be honest,it's far more important to make sure it's all in good working order,then you should find that either will serve you well.Perhaps if your considering uprating the power then the T5 would be more desireable? The T5 came along in earlyish'94 by the way,before the serp engines were fitted later in '94. Personally i quite like the very early 500's with the rover box as they had the pre-cat style dash gauges,but perhaps i'm biased!

[spend]

The AJP Griff said:

Perhaps if your considering uprating the power then the T5 would be more desireable?

Conversely LT77+GKN has longer legged gearing if you are raising the power, you may have missed that Mike since you have extended the RPM significantly

Dry sump upgrade would make the serp pump look rubbish too

[carbon14]

Hi,

I tried both combinations of gearbox and diff (my car is a 94 griff 500 and two other 500 cars with t5 and btr).
T5: (very) soft clutch and shorter gearchange ways
lt77: hard clutch and gearchanges a bit more "mecanical"
I dont quite understand the comments about some lack of reliability of the lt77 - not sure it was the real rationale for TVR to change to the T5 - the lt77 was used in land rovers and is - according to lr mecanicians - pretty bulletproof, eg for heavy duty towing, so should be fine with high torque engines too ?

PS: I tried a t56 (6speed) griff500 - same comments as T5 above - i know of 2 such griff in Switzerland - any other in the uk ?

PS2: if you like it "raw", i.e. non PAS, I would tend for the lt77, all IMHO

Cheers,
C14

[jimmyVX]

Could you get a pre-serp car with PAS?

[JazzyO]

jimmyVX said:

Could you get a pre-serp car with PAS?

PAS came only in 1996, didn't it? So that would be a no, I think.


Onno

[spend]

Yes there have been pre-serps with PAS fitted

[Ant.]

spend said:

Yes there have been pre-serps with PAS fitted

where do they put the swirl pot?

[spend]

Theres one where it moved forward - looked a bit like later cars IIRC.

[Argent]

I've had three Griffs, one 400 and two 500's, regarding the T5 versus LT77 gearbox issue, I would say go for the T5 every time, it has a shorter throw and feels more more precise, serp engine also a better bet, all IMHO.

A.

[scoule]

Argent said:

I've had three Griffs, one 400 and two 500's, regarding the T5 versus LT77 gearbox issue, I would say go for the T5 every time, it has a shorter throw and feels more more precise, serp engine also a better bet, all IMHO.

A.

I love the mechanical feel of the LT77 in mine, you can feel the synchros working and gears engaging! I don't understand how it could feel any more precise - there's no play in it whatsover. It suits the mechanical character of the car IMHO.