Discussion
crankedup said:
Be interested in your thoughts of how the 4lt compares to your 5lt.
From my (limited) experience of one of each, I'd say:
4.0: Good balance of power, handling and grip. Pliable suspension/tyres made it 'chuckable' on B-roads - you could hurl it into a corner, boot it out and know you'd still be facing the right way. Good driving position and chunky steering wheel. And the noise of course... perfect.
500: Much firmer suspension, good for track but skittish on real roads - you can lose it on a cats eye. More power than grip means caution needed with loud pedal. Driving position is higher due to different seat design. Thinner rimmed steering wheel not quite so satisfying. Noise - what noise, unless the cats fall out, and even then it's not the same as a 4.x. The whole car feels more tuned, more highly strung. Harder to drive well. Cooling more marginal. But when you get it singing, it's a whole new experience - and in terms of speed, midrange acceleration is where it wins.
That's my 4p-worth anyway!
Interesting and I think the 'first thoughts' comparison are sometimes the best. I'm a bit surprised it feels skittish compared to the 4lt but maybe cold roads/tyres don't help much. Lack of pre cat noise I understand that, bit of sacrifice and in return even more grunt.
Would you say the build quality is 'really' better or not much in it?
I've just got back into TVR with my 4.3 pre cat, after my 450SEAC in the early nineties I really notice the better build of the Griff, even my 12 year old example. Still wish I kept my SEAC though to go with the Griff.
Would you say the build quality is 'really' better or not much in it?
I've just got back into TVR with my 4.3 pre cat, after my 450SEAC in the early nineties I really notice the better build of the Griff, even my 12 year old example. Still wish I kept my SEAC though to go with the Griff.
Griffs just got better the more they built...that is why they always say buy the newest you can afford!
IMHO I was not keen on the light treatment of the last 100 cars...but that topic has been done to death!
I agree with Simpo Two...the 500 mid-range acceleration is astonishing and it never fails to impress me...you honestly forget just how rapid it is!
Cold tyres? I scared myself badly 100 yards from my home...cold day, pretty well dry road and cold tyres. I accelerated briskly in second gear and just caught the car before it spun!
No wail of tyres...nothing just a very scary sudden change of direction...you must respect these cars as they are very unforgiving! 
IMHO I was not keen on the light treatment of the last 100 cars...but that topic has been done to death!
I agree with Simpo Two...the 500 mid-range acceleration is astonishing and it never fails to impress me...you honestly forget just how rapid it is!
Cold tyres? I scared myself badly 100 yards from my home...cold day, pretty well dry road and cold tyres. I accelerated briskly in second gear and just caught the car before it spun!
No wail of tyres...nothing just a very scary sudden change of direction...you must respect these cars as they are very unforgiving! crankedup said:
I'm a bit surprised it feels skittish compared to the 4lt but maybe cold roads/tyres don't help much.
My 4.0 had Goodyear Eagles; the 500 has SO2s. The sidewalls seem lower and stiffer - add to that a firmer and/or younger suspension and it does get unsettled under lateral G on your average B-road.
crankedup said:
Would you say the build quality is 'really' better or not much in it?
I can't really say from personal experience, as the 4.0 was slightly tatty inside (hi-fi bod had pulled up all the carpets and stuck them back slightly wrong). I think the care lavished by the owner is important, but remember too that TVR like to keep tweaking things and many minor changes for the better were made between 1991 and about 1996.
Good thread guys.
I'm going be changing up from my Wedge to Griff this year. The battle I'm facing is which one to choose. I haven't driven one yet but judging by what I've read so far I'm not keen on getting a 5 if the handling is so unpredicatable.
From what I've been told thus far, a 4.3 seems to be the best of the bunch. Still, until I get to drive one I'll guess I'll never know. But thanx for the comments guys
I'm going be changing up from my Wedge to Griff this year. The battle I'm facing is which one to choose. I haven't driven one yet but judging by what I've read so far I'm not keen on getting a 5 if the handling is so unpredicatable.
From what I've been told thus far, a 4.3 seems to be the best of the bunch. Still, until I get to drive one I'll guess I'll never know. But thanx for the comments guys
HeyAndy said:
I'm not keen on getting a 5 if the handling is so unpredicatable.
Well I wouldn't say they're unpredictable, you just have to be that much more alert to push them. Making smooth fast progress uses more of your brain - well it does of mine anyway! Lots of people say the 500 is a far better package, so beauty is in the eye... etc. Probably best to try both and see what you prefer (though don't push the envelope on a test drive!)
I have had my griff about six years and found that even small amounts of throttle can cause the backend to step out sometimes for no obvious reason.After speaking to a racing driver I decided to mount my rear shock absorbers (avos ,though this is not an advert) at a more upright angle.The car was far less skittish , I could not spin the wheels in second gear where previosly they could break traction in third and I could now drive the car confidently in the wet.Three days after the modification I was being chased by an Integrale , I led him to a large roundabout where I continued to circle (a race on the straight seemed unfair)and noticed that he was unable to keep up with me !I decide the mod was a good one.
First off, there are so many variables that affect these cars, tread, tyre pattern, temp, pressure (a biggy) condition of bushes and material, geo set up, ambient and road surface temps ( I got impatient with mine recently, cold tyres etc and she reminded me very quickly who was boss) that it's really difficult to be objective. Mine went through a stage of being an utter bastard, I bought a digital tyre gauge, had the geo adjusted and it was a revelation, in fact it now handles smoother and more predictably than it ever did.
I don't have much experience of 4.x Griffs but have nearly 4 years experience of 'discovery' with Apache and can testify that the tractability versus power is the absolute winning feature of the car (driver aids aside)and learning how to use it and improve it with confidence is an addictive adventure. I would never knock a Griff of lesser cubic capacity but (for me) the limits would very soon have me looking for the next step up the horsepower ladder
>> Edited by apache on Wednesday 25th February 00:29
I don't have much experience of 4.x Griffs but have nearly 4 years experience of 'discovery' with Apache and can testify that the tractability versus power is the absolute winning feature of the car (driver aids aside)and learning how to use it and improve it with confidence is an addictive adventure. I would never knock a Griff of lesser cubic capacity but (for me) the limits would very soon have me looking for the next step up the horsepower ladder
>> Edited by apache on Wednesday 25th February 00:29
Of all the Griffs I have driven, I still think back to when I borrowed a 4 as for me it was the smoothest, most predictable and most relaxing one to drive.
All the others have more grunt and better mods etc. but the original 4 is just a beautifull little sports car.
As regards handling, I've had the 4.5 for nearly 10 years and it shocks me how every new set of tyres changes the way the car responds to various road surfaces, corners and cambers. It takes a while of experimenting with pressures when a new set is put on to get it right.
All the others have more grunt and better mods etc. but the original 4 is just a beautifull little sports car.
As regards handling, I've had the 4.5 for nearly 10 years and it shocks me how every new set of tyres changes the way the car responds to various road surfaces, corners and cambers. It takes a while of experimenting with pressures when a new set is put on to get it right.
I had a bout of rose tinted lenses when I bought my Griff, well it was thee Griff that I had always wanted for the last 12 years. When it became availoable I just happened to have the wonga ready to buy. Having covered a mighty 600 miles I inspected the tyres, a new set is required, shite what am I to say to my better half? Still at least I won't have the prob's of having to 'get used' to a set of tyre change
Hello fella's. I have a 92 4ltr Griff which is a joy to drive.Most D&C members who drive Griff's are 5ltr owners and can leave me behind on the extra power and speed that they have over my early Griff.But mine sounds great and behaves its self (usually)and I am happy with the power available.All down to horses for courses I suppose,plus the 4ltr Griffs will be collectable one day.
Cheers Rob, I'll be bringing her up for final fettling soon. It was suggested a bigger air filter might be reqd, some hoses/breathers rerouted and something to stop it overrunning on shutdown, other than that I am well chuffed and can recommend the option. The lifters need a quick tweak too so I guess it would be best to leave it with you. New job has to be sorted out first so I should be up on the 12th/13th.
Car geo was done by TMS and Ive a new set of poly bushes, other than that I just keep an eye on things
Car geo was done by TMS and Ive a new set of poly bushes, other than that I just keep an eye on things
Having owned an early 4.3 Griffith and a Chimaera 500 with a Griff' 500 set-up plus plenty of testing miles in Griff 500s I can honestly say the 500 set-up is much more friendly for road-use. The early Griffith set-up was way too stiff and the slightest bump when applying the loud pedal could threaten to send the car into the scenery. This was very much the opinion of the motoring press at the time too.
The 4.3 had the nicer engine (IMHO) but there again my particular car used to leave Griff' 500s behind so it was probably a modified engine or one that was just put together properly! (Where is J976MLT - silverstone metallic over ocean green hide)?
The build quality of the car wasn't nearly as good as later 500s. Rover gearbox was fragile and baulky. Brakes were nothing special, styling was sensational especially on the five-spoke alloys!
For the ultimate Griff' I'd have an early 4.3 and get the 'box changed over to T5 (or even T56) and upgrade the interior to the later 500 spec'. I'd also have the brakes upgraded (4-pots) and get a set of Nitrons installed as those things completely transform the handling of Griffs and Chimaeras.
All IMHO of course!
The 4.3 had the nicer engine (IMHO) but there again my particular car used to leave Griff' 500s behind so it was probably a modified engine or one that was just put together properly! (Where is J976MLT - silverstone metallic over ocean green hide)?
The build quality of the car wasn't nearly as good as later 500s. Rover gearbox was fragile and baulky. Brakes were nothing special, styling was sensational especially on the five-spoke alloys!
For the ultimate Griff' I'd have an early 4.3 and get the 'box changed over to T5 (or even T56) and upgrade the interior to the later 500 spec'. I'd also have the brakes upgraded (4-pots) and get a set of Nitrons installed as those things completely transform the handling of Griffs and Chimaeras.
All IMHO of course!
Plus as parts wear out they get replaced with newer or aftermarket items, factory/specialist upgrades, eventually there won't be many 'standard' cars around. I see a similar thing happening to V8 TVRs as did Harleys, they become personalised and evolve. This is something I believe in very strongly and see in many ways. Take Grand Designs on't telly tonight, 2 guys built a large white box which I condemned outright would be hideous, what transpired was a modern take on an Art Deco building, it was beautiful. It's why I love music like Led Zeppelin or Goldfrapp, take a classic or perfect design/idea and stretch it a little, push it....oops ramble mode off
>> Edited by apache on Wednesday 25th February 22:20
>> Edited by apache on Wednesday 25th February 22:20
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