Preserp vs Serp

[Cockey]

Hope I'm not opening a can of worms here, but I think I may have been misled in to thinking the serp engined 500s are better than preserps.

Am I right in thinking the main difference is how the belts are configured which does cause them to drive a little differently, but other than this the engines are the same?

I'm off to see what may be a preserp griff and was looking at this to be a negative. However now I'm not so sure. What I mean to say is, should two similar griffs (age, mileage, condition) one pre and one surp be similar prices? Are they as desirable?

[zippy500]

The base engine is identical. Alternator oil pump and water pump are different/upgraded on Serpentine. I presume these will cope with 5 litre capacity demands better than the older style that were designed for a 3.5 litre. So in theory, a serpentine is better, but not at performance which is identical.

Forgetting the HC and non HC argument of course which is a different can of worms.

My old Griff was a Pre Serp and current is a Serpentine. For normal day to day driving, I personally found no difference other than this ones runs cooler. But that is probably a TVR quirk more than an engine mod characteristic.

Edited by zippy500 on Tuesday 20th April 10:24

Edited by zippy500 on Tuesday 20th April 10:45

[Cockey]

Thanks Zippy, that is about what I was hoping to hear. The one I'm seeing is an early 94 500HC and I'm pretty sure it's a preserp.

[zippy500]

Would deffo be a Pre serp then on a 94, it was mid/late 95 they changed.

[Cockey]

Thanks guys. When did they start sticking in the T5 gearbox?

[macar]

zippy500 said:

The base engine is identical. Alternator oil pump and water pump are different/upgraded on Serpentine. I presume these will cope with 5 litre capacity demands better than the older style that were designed for a 3.5 litre. So in theory, a serpentine is better, but not at performance which is identical.

Forgetting the HC and non HC argument of course which is a different can of worms.

My old Griff was a Pre Serp and current is a Serpentine. For normal day to day driving, I personally found no difference other than this ones runs cooler. But that is probably a TVR quirk more than an engine mod characteristic.

Edited by zippy500 on Tuesday 20th April 10:24

Edited by zippy500 on Tuesday 20th April 10:45

Whats the difference between a 500v500HC ?

[zippy500]

Some say nothing, some say something.

I'm not getting involved in this one, hehe.

[macar]

zippy500 said:

Some say nothing, some say something.

I'm not getting involved in this one, hehe.

How do you know if its got something or nowt?

[K4TRV]

macar said:

zippy500 said:

Some say nothing, some say something.

I'm not getting involved in this one, hehe.

How do you know if its got something or nowt?

A Rolling Road would give you a better indication............??

[zippy500]

In theory on the plenum chamber, it will have a 500HC badge. However this could be retro fitted by a dodgy geezer.

I believe and I'm sure folks will correct me. Early in the 500's life, you could buy a 500 or the high compression version or high lift cam(can never remember which it is) HC. Later on all were HC's but just badged as 500's.

Edited by zippy500 on Tuesday 20th April 12:15

[spend]

It's supposedly 'High Cam lift' and ALL 500's had the high cam & pocketed pistons. The only difference I've noticed is that bulleted valve guides went AWOL on the later cars TBH.

[rigga]

And if the cam has been changed from standard,which by now it could have,then its a moot point whether its a HC or not

As an example,mines a 500HC,states it on the plenumn and at the end of the engine number on the vin.... but it runs a 218 cam that the previous owner had fitted.

Edited by rigga on Tuesday 20th April 14:53

[jeboa]

I have a Pre-Serp with a T5 'box, it's a 1994 car on a M plate.

Incidentally, my car has 1494 written all over it in different places with marker pen. I guess this is the build number?

Anyway, from a purely cosmetic point of view the serp looks more 'modern' with a polyvee belt. When it comes to the oil pump, it's supposed to be better (but I have never had a problem) - it's also easier to 'do-away' with the dizzy if you're converting to coilpacks BTW.

[spend]

jeboa said:

..When it comes to the oil pump, it's supposed to be better (but I have never had a problem) - it's also easier to 'do-away' with the dizzy if you're converting to coilpacks BTW.

That can be even more troublesome if you have one without the cam retainer fitted (more without I'd guess?), see posts on cam walk. The dizzy drive did a pretty good job of keeping the cam in place

[3024E]

Quinny said:

Mines a pre-serp, but is also X-bolted.....

Yes the serps do have improved, water pump design and oil pump....

In saying that, if I were looking for another Griff today...whether it is a serp or pre-serp would be way down the list...

I'd be far more interested in overall condition, chassis, paintwork, hood running gear and interior...

I would however seek out a T5 box over an LT77.... But even that would not be a deciding factor on final choice...

Bottom line is

I'd much rather buy a really well looked after and tidy pre-serp with LT77

Than a ropy serp with T5

The overall spec is much less important, than the overall condition

CONDITION IS KING........The rest is a bonus.

Edited by 3024E on Wednesday 21st April 07:32