500 cooling system upgraded in 1996?
Discussion
alexhancock said:
Great cars. The first 5.0 was hopeless and I spent the best part of £20K in two years on maintenance alone - engine rebuilds! I would advise not buying an early 5.0 as they didn't modify the cooling system until about P reg cars.
I thought the cooling system was modified on the serps?
STEEEEEEVVVVVEEEEEEEE!
Where are you?
All 500's have twin fans. mine is Feb 94 on an L plate and it has twin fans, with a T5 box.
The best advise to anyone is to invest in a ally rad (£300 for made to measure item) not only does it look great, holds almost 50% more water volume and dissipates the heat so much quicker than a standard rad
>> Edited by s_i_hunter on Tuesday 9th March 22:58
The best advise to anyone is to invest in a ally rad (£300 for made to measure item) not only does it look great, holds almost 50% more water volume and dissipates the heat so much quicker than a standard rad
>> Edited by s_i_hunter on Tuesday 9th March 22:58
s_i_hunter said:
All 500's have twin fans. mine is Feb 94 on an L plate and it has twin fans, with a T5 box.
The best advise to anyone is to invest in a ally rad (£300 for made to measure item) not only does it look great, holdes almost 50% great water volume and dissipates the heat so much quicker than a standard rad
And also breaks quicker
sorry but its the Truth
From what I have heared and makes sense IMO yes they have better cooling propertys but are Thinner and without having so much flex where and how they are fitted(very Rigidly) they are more prone to springing a leak dure to teh fins cracking splitting. Its the Truth, Makes sense No.
BB
BB
Ballistic, so glad the truth from you has now come out.
Summing up your position 'in my opinion' - opinions can never be the truth.
Do you have an ally rad? Presumably not with these comments.
I do, it is fixed in the same way as the original item, is made by the same people that make the Tuscan race car rads (plus other well know racing teams including Le Mans, WRC etc) and is 'not thin' ally.
Any aeronautical engineer will tell you that ally is lighter than steel plus demostrates almost the same strength, otherwise they would not make airplanes out
of it!!!
Best to keep to what you know.
Summing up your position 'in my opinion' - opinions can never be the truth.
Do you have an ally rad? Presumably not with these comments.
I do, it is fixed in the same way as the original item, is made by the same people that make the Tuscan race car rads (plus other well know racing teams including Le Mans, WRC etc) and is 'not thin' ally.
Any aeronautical engineer will tell you that ally is lighter than steel plus demostrates almost the same strength, otherwise they would not make airplanes out
of it!!!
Best to keep to what you know.
Oh err calm down.
I guess the people i have talked to who have owned both types dont know what they are talking about either, Tuscan racers arent a every day Road cars so bad comparision in my opinion and what the hell has areoplanes got to do with it.
Yes the fixings are the same( two bolts and two Pins into the bodywork) thats the whole point they sit in the car very rigidly giving them no Flex. Yes in other cars I agree but we are talking Griffith arent we??
Yes but wheres the copper fins??
Stick to what I know
?? As above
I guess we will agree to differ
BB
Ps, Truth was said light heartedly
Not as if Written in Stone
>> Edited by Ballistic Banana on Tuesday 9th March 23:45
I guess the people i have talked to who have owned both types dont know what they are talking about either, Tuscan racers arent a every day Road cars so bad comparision in my opinion and what the hell has areoplanes got to do with it.
Yes the fixings are the same( two bolts and two Pins into the bodywork) thats the whole point they sit in the car very rigidly giving them no Flex. Yes in other cars I agree but we are talking Griffith arent we??
s_i_hunter said:
Any aeronautical engineer will tell you that ally is lighter than steel plus demostrates almost the same strength, otherwise they would not make airplanes out
of it!!!
Yes but wheres the copper fins??
Stick to what I know
?? As above I guess we will agree to differ
BB
Ps, Truth was said light heartedly
Not as if Written in Stone shpub said:
Real proper motorsport ally rads (welded seams etc) are pretty good but they do not like fans etc bolted onto them and need good isolated mounts. Ally is a soft metal and bends/tears fairly easily. Most modern cars have ally rads these days.
So I don't think there is a problem with the rad itself but there might need some thinking in a Griff where rad flexing does occur.
>> Edited by shpub on Wednesday 9th April 12:13
>> Edited by Ballistic Banana on Tuesday 9th March 23:45
Get back to your fruit cart BB. Pah! What do you know you banoffee tart!
(Anyway aluminium is weaker then steel. If it isnt then why to aluminium tubes that replace steal ones have to be bigger? For more strength, look at the changes in push bikes. So you are partly correct BB!)
Edt - Bleedin radiators you say. Is this described in the bible? (seriously, is it? If its complicated then Id like to know more).
Anyway, enough of the fan nonsesne.
I was thinking that the bloke that I quoted was probably talking about the cooling system.
ie water pump, associated system, block, pipes or something along those lines. If he suffered engine rebuilds then I doubt fans had much to do with it.
So, were there any changes of this nature around 1996? I assumed that the only changes occured in 1994 with the serpentine engine.
(when was the first serp? Im guessing around the third quarter of '94).
Let the fighting commence (but answer my question too!)
(Anyway aluminium is weaker then steel. If it isnt then why to aluminium tubes that replace steal ones have to be bigger? For more strength, look at the changes in push bikes. So you are partly correct BB!)
Edt - Bleedin radiators you say. Is this described in the bible? (seriously, is it? If its complicated then Id like to know more).
Anyway, enough of the fan nonsesne.
I was thinking that the bloke that I quoted was probably talking about the cooling system.
ie water pump, associated system, block, pipes or something along those lines. If he suffered engine rebuilds then I doubt fans had much to do with it.
So, were there any changes of this nature around 1996? I assumed that the only changes occured in 1994 with the serpentine engine.
(when was the first serp? Im guessing around the third quarter of '94).
Let the fighting commence (but answer my question too!)
erm , a nice AA man did mine the other day after I had pulled over with a massive airlock (thought I'd blown the gasket.. phew)
Think this applies to serp only (as has seperate expension tank) he said: never fill from the front as this gives false impression. Remove the screw from the middle tank & fill from there (it's higher). He also used to bleed pipe to let a little out (mine was a bit blocked & used a bit of wire to clear it). Havent read the bible method yet, still got a stack of autocars from my subscription - cant keep up !
Oh and heaters on hot & full after a few mins.. make sure ghot air blowing out - I think this was to make sure there was no airlock in the matrix as this is a common place.
Ed
Think this applies to serp only (as has seperate expension tank) he said: never fill from the front as this gives false impression. Remove the screw from the middle tank & fill from there (it's higher). He also used to bleed pipe to let a little out (mine was a bit blocked & used a bit of wire to clear it). Havent read the bible method yet, still got a stack of autocars from my subscription - cant keep up !
Oh and heaters on hot & full after a few mins.. make sure ghot air blowing out - I think this was to make sure there was no airlock in the matrix as this is a common place.
Ed
Dusty.... When are you going to get a car and a life?
Some of us have other things to do in life you know.
The cooling system is more than just single /twin fans. The serp engine has different water ways. Some 500s have a no header tank, most have the two tank version. There are several methods to fill and bleed the system as detailed in the bible.
Ally rads are no weaker than the brass ones and infact because they are welded, not soldered, can be stronger. TVR now use ally rads with plastic ends BTW. The flexing issue will affect by types of rads BTW. It is a fault of the mounting system and can be mittagated/solved by a rubber washer over the bittom pegs. Main problem with ally rads is that repairs are expensive because of the welding. The 520 has a custom ally rad because it needs the additional cooling. Put a big stone through it and it was new rad time!
Ally rads can also be too efficient. Big big discussion on the pros and cons of cooling upgrades and the potential problems and benefits in the bible.
PS a correctly sorted and maintained cooling system is fine and will behave itself with no problems. If the car overheats then there is a fault somewhere.
Some of us have other things to do in life you know.
The cooling system is more than just single /twin fans. The serp engine has different water ways. Some 500s have a no header tank, most have the two tank version. There are several methods to fill and bleed the system as detailed in the bible.
Ally rads are no weaker than the brass ones and infact because they are welded, not soldered, can be stronger. TVR now use ally rads with plastic ends BTW. The flexing issue will affect by types of rads BTW. It is a fault of the mounting system and can be mittagated/solved by a rubber washer over the bittom pegs. Main problem with ally rads is that repairs are expensive because of the welding. The 520 has a custom ally rad because it needs the additional cooling. Put a big stone through it and it was new rad time!
Ally rads can also be too efficient. Big big discussion on the pros and cons of cooling upgrades and the potential problems and benefits in the bible.
PS a correctly sorted and maintained cooling system is fine and will behave itself with no problems. If the car overheats then there is a fault somewhere.
My 95 pre serp has the higher temp otter swith, standard rad and twin fan setup, all working correctly and never goes in the red even in the summer periods, I have even checked the water temp when engine is running and the gauge is accurate. So if the system is working well it will cool effectively. A serp system is just as likely to overheat as a pre serp if not maintained correctly.
Steve,
your last point about overcooling got me thinking about something that has bugged me for a little while, although maybe it shouldn't. My '97 Griff 500 never runs above 79 degrees, and I mean never. If the ambient temperature is sub zero and I am on a motorway, it might even drop down to 70 - 75, although never lower than that. Also, I'm sure I can hear the fans cut in with the gauge reading 79, e.g. at the end of a long run while I'm parking.
All other performance is utterly fantastic
, running very smoothly, fuel consumption OK, oil pressure 20+ even when hot etc. (touch wood). Given all the cooling problems that people talk about perhaps I should shut up and count my blessings but you mentioned in the bible that overcooling can be a problem and this tread has reminded me of that.
your last point about overcooling got me thinking about something that has bugged me for a little while, although maybe it shouldn't. My '97 Griff 500 never runs above 79 degrees, and I mean never. If the ambient temperature is sub zero and I am on a motorway, it might even drop down to 70 - 75, although never lower than that. Also, I'm sure I can hear the fans cut in with the gauge reading 79, e.g. at the end of a long run while I'm parking.
All other performance is utterly fantastic
, running very smoothly, fuel consumption OK, oil pressure 20+ even when hot etc. (touch wood). Given all the cooling problems that people talk about perhaps I should shut up and count my blessings but you mentioned in the bible that overcooling can be a problem and this tread has reminded me of that. gooner said:
My '97 Griff 500 never runs above 79 degrees, and I mean never.
The gauges aren't always accurate. My fans cut in at 80 degrees as well.
Also, a good place to fill the system is apparently the throttle heater pipe. It's up near the plenum so very high up on the engine.
Ian A.
gooner,
sounds like someone has put in the cool running kit or something similar.
an otter switch that cuts in lower 91-86 for the fans or even 82-87. maybe water wetter or an uprated rad!
mine (500) has had this and other mods done and it now does the same as yours (temp wise) and runs fine.
the temp gauge WILL be out tho. due to position, if it is reading 75 it will actually be around the 90 mark in the block. i have proved this by using the separate input to the ECU. on the rollers mine reads 75-80 on the gauge but the ECU is reading 95-100. THIS IS FINE! optimum temp for engines is 90-95 (see your eurobox).
and as for over cooling...if theengine gets too cool, the thermostat will partially close restricting flow and lifting temp. this is why it will NEVER go below 75.
TVR have a very basic cooling system which is quite adequate. but as all gauges are fed directly without tolerance settings, you will actually see the system operating. temp rises, fans cut in, temp lowers etc. your eurobox shows you what you expect to see (90) untill there's a problem...then it disappears of at a vast rate of knots.
relax, took me alot of time and effort to get mine to do what yours is doing already!
sounds like someone has put in the cool running kit or something similar.
an otter switch that cuts in lower 91-86 for the fans or even 82-87. maybe water wetter or an uprated rad!
mine (500) has had this and other mods done and it now does the same as yours (temp wise) and runs fine.
the temp gauge WILL be out tho. due to position, if it is reading 75 it will actually be around the 90 mark in the block. i have proved this by using the separate input to the ECU. on the rollers mine reads 75-80 on the gauge but the ECU is reading 95-100. THIS IS FINE! optimum temp for engines is 90-95 (see your eurobox).
and as for over cooling...if theengine gets too cool, the thermostat will partially close restricting flow and lifting temp. this is why it will NEVER go below 75.
TVR have a very basic cooling system which is quite adequate. but as all gauges are fed directly without tolerance settings, you will actually see the system operating. temp rises, fans cut in, temp lowers etc. your eurobox shows you what you expect to see (90) untill there's a problem...then it disappears of at a vast rate of knots.
relax, took me alot of time and effort to get mine to do what yours is doing already!
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