Griffith 500 Air Filter Options
Discussion
I am looking to change the air filter on my 99 Griff 500.
From what I understand there are 2 options which are to either replace the panel filter with a replacement Piper Cross panel or a K&N panel.
I have always favoured cone filters over panel filters, has anyone removed the panel design and replaced with a cone filter, if so which one? I believe the earlier Griffs come with a cone filter, is there a reason why this was changed for the later cars to a panel filter?
From what I understand there are 2 options which are to either replace the panel filter with a replacement Piper Cross panel or a K&N panel.
I have always favoured cone filters over panel filters, has anyone removed the panel design and replaced with a cone filter, if so which one? I believe the earlier Griffs come with a cone filter, is there a reason why this was changed for the later cars to a panel filter?
The location of the panel filter is ideal for cold air ahead of the rad.
The come filter locates behind the rad, less ideal given the temp difference.
Neither have ideal routing.
Whether the temps make that much difference is a protracted debate of course.
I'd say the panel and airbox is far neater in the engine bay, ahead of rad, has no disadvatange over the cone design and will be sticking with mine.
The come filter locates behind the rad, less ideal given the temp difference.
Neither have ideal routing.
Whether the temps make that much difference is a protracted debate of course.
I'd say the panel and airbox is far neater in the engine bay, ahead of rad, has no disadvatange over the cone design and will be sticking with mine.
Just a lateral thought, but I wonder how many 4.3 owners with 500 noses have considered changing to a panel as some of them may have the requisite moulding etc . .
I think Hamish/Bluebottles solution is the best I've seen and an upgrade I have on the back burner. This re-routes the air intake through the inner wing and into the void in front of front wheel arch. Just need to install a mouse trap in there as well
I think Hamish/Bluebottles solution is the best I've seen and an upgrade I have on the back burner. This re-routes the air intake through the inner wing and into the void in front of front wheel arch. Just need to install a mouse trap in there as well
Just a lateral thought, but I wonder how many 4.3 owners with 500 noses have considered changing to a panel as some of them may have the requisite moulding etc . .
I think Hamish/Bluebottles solution is the best I've seen and an upgrade I have on the back burner. This re-routes the air intake through the inner wing and into the void in front of front wheel arch. Just need to install a mouse trap in there as well
I think Hamish/Bluebottles solution is the best I've seen and an upgrade I have on the back burner. This re-routes the air intake through the inner wing and into the void in front of front wheel arch. Just need to install a mouse trap in there as well
Johno said:
Just a lateral thought, but I wonder how many 4.3 owners with 500 noses have considered changing to a panel as some of them may have the requisite moulding etc . .
Me for one, although I've only just thought about it after having my head in Quinnys engine bay at the growl.
The difference in nose design, apart from the obvious aesthetics, and especially the Rad laying much flatter in a pre-cat wasn't something I was aware of and might explain why I've never been entirely happy with my pre-cat ACS smoothbore Filter-AFM hose.
I'll ponder...
Mr MoJo said:
I'd stick with your panel filter too. First port of call is a smooth bore elbow and 'filter to afm' pipe.
I'm in Fance until next Sunday, but I have a spare elbow I was planning on putting in the classifieds on my return. Give me a shout when I get back if you want first dibs !!
I don't fancy fitting the filter to afm pipe, I might just be able to cope with fitting the elbow I'm in Fance until next Sunday, but I have a spare elbow I was planning on putting in the classifieds on my return. Give me a shout when I get back if you want first dibs !!
PM sent regarding the spare elbow.
I don't think the panel filter is the right option at all, just because Johnno intimated that some have fitted a cone behind the rad rather than in front of the rad where it should be may have misled you?
The panel filter has been shown to be restrictive, hence the Hamish modification search for some of the old threads on MikeyV, Pascos & Fordys cars where they tried to solve it with dual feeds. It's an area that seems very undervalued in terms of performance, & AFIK Joo was in a unique position being able to test various scenarios on his rolling road (not sure anyone else would have done that - no profit so they'd have to be genuinely intrigued to rig up & test alternatives..)
I think Ant probably has the best solution to date, if he cares to share it, even if it is particularly biased against rolling road operation (well perceived thoughts anyway)
The panel filter has been shown to be restrictive, hence the Hamish modification
search for some of the old threads on MikeyV, Pascos & Fordys cars where they tried to solve it with dual feeds. It's an area that seems very undervalued in terms of performance, & AFIK Joo was in a unique position being able to test various scenarios on his rolling road (not sure anyone else would have done that - no profit so they'd have to be genuinely intrigued to rig up & test alternatives..)I think Ant probably has the best solution to date, if he cares to share it, even if it is particularly biased against rolling road operation (well perceived thoughts anyway
)spend said:
I don't think the panel filter is the right option at all, just because Johnno intimated that some have fitted a cone behind the rad rather than in front of the rad where it should be may have misled you?
It's the best compromise, relatively standard arrangement and without the need to cut holes in your wings - probably the best way to say it.It's not the best solution possible . .. Engineering a compromise
Other than the panel, you're into the mod's that Dave's highlighted . ..
I've also seen a cone filter fitted I think thru V8D's Rob on Adrian Duggleby's sprinting Griffith in front of the rad as well . . . However I'd have my concerns for all year round road use and puddles .. although I doubt it's an issue.
Those reasons are essentially why I've always thought building an insulated air box (with short induction from filter) is the ultimate solution. You can then feed the airbox with as many pipes / diameters as you deem necessary, and select duct / scoop arrangements that take advantage of flow / surfaces / pressures at your leisure.
Those darned twin feed panel filters seemed to be bouncing up & down @10bhp depending on how you kinked the pipes even just a little bit. It is amazing how much difference that area seems to make performance wise, I just think for the cost it is an area that you can get significant gains comparative to the normal 72mm butterfly / smooth bore / what filter.. brainset?
Those darned twin feed panel filters seemed to be bouncing up & down @10bhp depending on how you kinked the pipes even just a little bit. It is amazing how much difference that area seems to make performance wise, I just think for the cost it is an area that you can get significant gains comparative to the normal 72mm butterfly / smooth bore / what filter.. brainset?
Ultimate solution would seem to be to build an airbox over the n/s manifold, insulated, with a panel filter.
The bonnet would then have a mesh covered open panel which when closed fitted with some kinda seal to the panel filter . .
I'm also intrigued about how much could be done at the bottom of the windscreen. Lowest pressure area at the front of the car . .. what scope is there under/area the mech scuttle cover ?
The bonnet would then have a mesh covered open panel which when closed fitted with some kinda seal to the panel filter . .
I'm also intrigued about how much could be done at the bottom of the windscreen. Lowest pressure area at the front of the car . .. what scope is there under/area the mech scuttle cover ?
You should have a chat with Ant, I think the NACA duct left Dave Walker rather gobsmacked.. it worked better than open to atmos AIUI? Pressure zones do seem to be influential, but the design of the orifices for flow do make a very significant difference as far as I can see.
I'm always been a bit confused with the comments about the bonnet rear edge, remembering Thorpey telling me years ago about cutting slots in the rear edge to vent the hot stuff (& with his record of serious molesting for performance eg Thorpedo you have to give credence to his views?)
I'm always been a bit confused with the comments about the bonnet rear edge, remembering Thorpey telling me years ago about cutting slots in the rear edge to vent the hot stuff (& with his record of serious molesting for performance eg Thorpedo you have to give credence to his views?)
Johno said:
ACT ?
Aparently Tim at ACT cannot get hold of the ACT Panel filters:Mr MoJo said:
For the guys contemplating the K&N. Good luck in finding one !! Had a long chat with Tim from ACT, and they are nigh on impossible to get for the 500.
Does anyone know if these can be sourced elsewhere?
t, my dad was at the Growl this year and I never saw him.mike vigo did some back to back testing on Joolz dyno a few years ago and found that there is no difference at all betweem the paper and foam panel fiters, they both give the same performance figures, its just a case of keeping them clean.
Johno`s idea is the best route, as the bend in the intake pipe that allows clearance under the front lip of the boonet does cause a slight loss of power because of the dounble kink in the pipe, ideally a perfectly straight pipe is best so there is no restriction at all, and the closest way of achieving this is to go out through the inner wing and have a cone filter under the headlight pod, and use as a big a diameter pipe as you can get and fit nicely.
you are still restricted by the nasty 90 degree bend going into the plenum though
Johno`s idea is the best route, as the bend in the intake pipe that allows clearance under the front lip of the boonet does cause a slight loss of power because of the dounble kink in the pipe, ideally a perfectly straight pipe is best so there is no restriction at all, and the closest way of achieving this is to go out through the inner wing and have a cone filter under the headlight pod, and use as a big a diameter pipe as you can get and fit nicely.
you are still restricted by the nasty 90 degree bend going into the plenum though
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