Residuals Vs MODS
Discussion
Can anyone help on how MODs affect residuals? I have a 4.3 pre cat Griff that is just about to undergo major engine refurbishment.The original plan was to do an overall engine freshen. However, I have been offered a 4.6 short engine, using my BV(?) heads, also to change the drive belt arrangement to a serp type thing. In the last year the car already has had upgraded brakes, suspension, cooling & induction...All of which are reversable, but changing the CCs/pulley drive is a bit more permenant. I'm not really bothered about getting my money back proportionally on the investment, but I really don't want to devalue the car.
If i were looking to buy a pre-cat griff, i would favour any with 4.6 upgrades, and so many have been modified in one way or another, to my knowledge upgrades don't de-value the car, its only worth doing if you intend to keep it for some time as you won't get much extra when you come to sell it, its easy to spend over £5K which might ad £1K to the value of the car.
Tim
Tim
If it's a genuine 'from the factory' 4.3 BV I would definitely keep it as original - reversible changes/upgrades are okay but keep it's original engine. I wouldn't buy a 'messed about' 4.3 BV - if you want to do an ultimate Griffith to your spec then buy a ropey unloved standard Griffith.
Otherwise you'll destroy a very limited Griffith IMO.
Otherwise you'll destroy a very limited Griffith IMO.
I've just done this with my precat 4.3 (not BV).
Initially I was just going for a big valve, new cam etc but when heads were taken off there were 2 pistons with burnt crowns!
New 4.3 pistons ain't cheap so after much discussion opted for a new 4.6 short motor, lightened, balanced etc with the new BV heads, MC1 cam, larger trumpets, manifold and plenum + a Mark Adams chip.
Replaced any other worn parts as found.Lightened flywheel and larger clutch.
Expensive certainly but feels good.
I agree with Tim, it's probably only worth doing if you intend to keep it for some time.
If mine had been a genuine 4.3BV I would have had the original engine rebuilt because of rarity value.
Initially I was just going for a big valve, new cam etc but when heads were taken off there were 2 pistons with burnt crowns!
New 4.3 pistons ain't cheap so after much discussion opted for a new 4.6 short motor, lightened, balanced etc with the new BV heads, MC1 cam, larger trumpets, manifold and plenum + a Mark Adams chip.
Replaced any other worn parts as found.Lightened flywheel and larger clutch.
Expensive certainly but feels good.
I agree with Tim, it's probably only worth doing if you intend to keep it for some time.
If mine had been a genuine 4.3BV I would have had the original engine rebuilt because of rarity value.
Tim or anyone - what's the differences between a 4.0, 4.3. 4.5 and 5.0 block? - I thought the different cc's were just down to the length of strokw i.e. they all had the same(94) bore.
Griffdude - why don't you fit one of those SCRAM engines?
>> Edited by jigs on Sunday 28th March 19:15
Griffdude - why don't you fit one of those SCRAM engines?
>> Edited by jigs on Sunday 28th March 19:15
I think Griff buyers are generally fairly shrewd.
Mod's do generally put people off when they are looking at second hand motors, hence your concern.
Having said the above, Joe Bloggs looking for a nice Griff will, in my opinion, still look at a 'recognised' converted car.
If its done properly and you have written confirmation about whats been done, I don't think you'll have a problem selling it on.
The only point I will make is that you will slim down the amount of potential buyers. This doesn't mean that the right buyer will never come along, just that he (or she) will be slightly harder to find.
Mod's do generally put people off when they are looking at second hand motors, hence your concern.
Having said the above, Joe Bloggs looking for a nice Griff will, in my opinion, still look at a 'recognised' converted car.
If its done properly and you have written confirmation about whats been done, I don't think you'll have a problem selling it on.
The only point I will make is that you will slim down the amount of potential buyers. This doesn't mean that the right buyer will never come along, just that he (or she) will be slightly harder to find.
jigs said:
Tim or anyone - what's the differences between a 4.0, 4.3. 4.5 and 5.0 block? - I thought the different cc's were just down to the length of strokw i.e. they all had the same(94) bore.
Yep thats correct the cc increase is just down to crank rods and pistons, however proper factory BVs had forged pistons etc maybe even cross bolted.
later rover blocks late 90's onwards are also cross bolted as standard.
Tim
Hi *dude* 
If you can prove the history of the important parts of the BV engine, ie you get an engineer's report to say the BV heads were transferred over to the serps engine I wouldn't have thought that would be too much of an issue. The serps engines are an improvement, not many people would argue that it was a backwards step in pure automotive terms, although some anorak historians would turn their noses up at it.
if you intend to keep the car then go for it
TVRs are one of the very few cars on which mods don't mean a devalued car (unless it's badly done etc) .. and mods by respected people in the TVR arena will be just fine.
Enjoy, Dude
If you can prove the history of the important parts of the BV engine, ie you get an engineer's report to say the BV heads were transferred over to the serps engine I wouldn't have thought that would be too much of an issue. The serps engines are an improvement, not many people would argue that it was a backwards step in pure automotive terms, although some anorak historians would turn their noses up at it.
if you intend to keep the car then go for it
TVRs are one of the very few cars on which mods don't mean a devalued car (unless it's badly done etc) .. and mods by respected people in the TVR arena will be just fine.
Enjoy, Dude
When I first bought my Griff I wouldnt have a touched one with engine mods because I didnt know enough about it. However, now I've been in the Griff and PH club for a while I have learnt an awful lot more and I would no longer be put off such a car. I agree with the comments about keeping a factory 4.3 original though.
Just thought Id make you aware of this incase it helps your descison (Pic on Autotrader)
Autotrader said:
1992 TVR GRIFFITH 4.0 2dr Convertible
Pre-cat Griffith, excellent condition. Mica Blue with grey half leather interior, mot/tax, Uprated 4.6 engine / stage 3 heads, uprated brakes / lights & more,very quick car lots of history. Very reluctant sale, another project forces sale, no canvassers please. 39000 miles. £13500 or.
I've deceided to go the 4.6 route after looking at what Tim & Joolz have said.
Bottom line, I love the car, IMHO TVR havent made anything to touch it as an overall package so therefore I do not envisage replacing it.Also Mrs Griffdude loves it.
p.s. getting a new clutch & upgraded cam at same time.
Bottom line, I love the car, IMHO TVR havent made anything to touch it as an overall package so therefore I do not envisage replacing it.Also Mrs Griffdude loves it.
p.s. getting a new clutch & upgraded cam at same time.
Might be worth taking note of siwes's comments in a recent thread:
This is on a 500 but most comments I've read re Cam upgrades is that it makes the car far more difficult to drive smoothly, especially at low speeds. I wonder if it would create similar characteristics on a 4.6? Personally I think if you're going to go to all that trouble and expense to make it faster, why not just leave the 4.3 as it is, get it up to scratch, flog it, buy a 500, then mod that if it still isnt quick enough.
>> Edited by jam1et on Monday 29th March 15:41
siwes said:
Through the lights indicated speed 157mph true speed 158mph no problem.
as regards HP well on a rolling road dyno after a bit of work and a lot of money 365 HP at the back wheels, and it feels like it. To be quite honest its not the smoothest engine now and I wonder if the effort has been worth it ,oh and by the way the car is a 97 500 Griff in the handbook it states 340hp, before i did the various mods over two years it showed an 320 HP output it was a very warm day when it was first tested.
To be quite honest the extra 50 hp is not really worth the effort, buy a Tuscan S
regards Simon
This is on a 500 but most comments I've read re Cam upgrades is that it makes the car far more difficult to drive smoothly, especially at low speeds. I wonder if it would create similar characteristics on a 4.6? Personally I think if you're going to go to all that trouble and expense to make it faster, why not just leave the 4.3 as it is, get it up to scratch, flog it, buy a 500, then mod that if it still isnt quick enough.
>> Edited by jam1et on Monday 29th March 15:41
Give the constant changes, updates & mods that the factory made, is there such thing as a 'standard' Griff?
I tend to concur that any sensably performed mods that don't affect engine life (in fact in most cases can prolong it..) shouldn't really put people off (wouldn't plan on getting any extra money tho')
I tend to concur that any sensably performed mods that don't affect engine life (in fact in most cases can prolong it..) shouldn't really put people off (wouldn't plan on getting any extra money tho')
I think a modded car would only be bought by someone with a good knowledge of TVRs, a newbie would have enough to worry about. If the mods are sympathetic and actually improve the driveability then I don't see a problem, most people here know each others car and history anyway. I've had a lot of interest in our Griff since the mods were done (would be borne out by a sale? who knows)
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