Dead Griff.....
Discussion
I took my Griffith out of hibernation last night, after keeping it tucked away for the winter. Everything was going well, and it was performing faultlessly, until after about 20 miles or so. I'd made a couple of stops during that 20 miles, and the car had started fine each time. Then, out of the blue, it lost power for a second or so during acceleration. This happened a couple more times, and then it died all together. I called the RAC, who diagnosed an electrical fault, but he wasn't prepared to fix it there and then. He said that the coil wasn't switching, either because it was knackered, or because the signal device in the distributor was knackered, but he couldn't decide which.
Is this a common problem (especially as the car has been laid-up over the winter)? Are there any ways I can test to see which component is broken, as opposed to guessing? Also, how expensive is it likely to be to put right if it is the distributor? I'm hoping it's the coil that's duff, because presumably that's a lot cheaper, and a lot easier to fix than the distributor?
Any hints/tips would be appreciated, because I'd like to get the car on the road ASAP to enjoy the sunshine.
Thanks,
Dan.
Is this a common problem (especially as the car has been laid-up over the winter)? Are there any ways I can test to see which component is broken, as opposed to guessing? Also, how expensive is it likely to be to put right if it is the distributor? I'm hoping it's the coil that's duff, because presumably that's a lot cheaper, and a lot easier to fix than the distributor?
Any hints/tips would be appreciated, because I'd like to get the car on the road ASAP to enjoy the sunshine.
Thanks,
Dan.
Typical, just as the good weather appears 
Sounds like it could be one of three things - the sensor (air??) gap in the distributor not being set right (I've only been told about this, don't know how to set it, or even if it could cause this fault??!!), the coil breaking down, or the ignition amplifier on the side of the distributor failing. Or a wiring fault. I'm no expert, but as far as I know, there's no way of testing which it is without swapping parts over from another car. Cheapest and possibly most likely option would be to change the ignition amp... but the best thing to do is get it to 'someone who knows', otherwise you'll spend more on unnecessary bits than the final repair (one stepper motor, throttle pot, fuel filter, ignition amp etc etc etc later in my case 
- do a search for 'idle pre cat' for my fun and games last year 
).
Sounds like it could be one of three things - the sensor (air??) gap in the distributor not being set right (I've only been told about this, don't know how to set it, or even if it could cause this fault??!!), the coil breaking down, or the ignition amplifier on the side of the distributor failing. Or a wiring fault. I'm no expert, but as far as I know, there's no way of testing which it is without swapping parts over from another car. Cheapest and possibly most likely option would be to change the ignition amp... but the best thing to do is get it to 'someone who knows', otherwise you'll spend more on unnecessary bits than the final repair (one stepper motor, throttle pot, fuel filter, ignition amp etc etc etc later in my case - do a search for 'idle pre cat' for my fun and games last year ). On mine it did cure the problem..
If Your ECu is shoved down the side of the battery box like mine was then there is a fair chance os damp ingress...
If you do not have an isolator switch for the battery then just undo the +ve terminal just to be sure.
It did work for mine...
Check on the pcb that there is no corrosion. Most can be taken off with a stiff nylon brush..(Nail brush)
>> Edited by alexmckie on Thursday 1st April 13:20
If Your ECu is shoved down the side of the battery box like mine was then there is a fair chance os damp ingress...
If you do not have an isolator switch for the battery then just undo the +ve terminal just to be sure.
It did work for mine...
Check on the pcb that there is no corrosion. Most can be taken off with a stiff nylon brush..(Nail brush)
>> Edited by alexmckie on Thursday 1st April 13:20
Yep, mine is shoved down the side of the battery, and the footwell has been known to take on water in the past, so it sounds like an ideal contender for the cause of the problem.
How easy is it to take the ECU apart? Is it just a case of unscrewing the box, or is it a 'prise apart with a screwdriver' job?
Thanks,
Dan.
How easy is it to take the ECU apart? Is it just a case of unscrewing the box, or is it a 'prise apart with a screwdriver' job?
Thanks,
Dan.
4 screws, a little leveredge, take care there is a seal all around.
Mine had droplets of water in it.
It might be worth having the ecu checked over. Cost about £40. £240 cheaper than a new one!!!
I will dig out a number for a guy who reprograms ecu's if you would like. He can check it over for you....
Mine had droplets of water in it.
It might be worth having the ecu checked over. Cost about £40. £240 cheaper than a new one!!!
I will dig out a number for a guy who reprograms ecu's if you would like. He can check it over for you....
I must admit, I'm a bit worried about delving that deeply into the ECU, although it could well be the problem, because I think water has made it's way into the footwell via the wiper motor fitting, because I saw it running down the wiring loom.
I took the dizzy cap off last night and cleaned all the contacts etc, although I don't think that's causing the problem, because Mr RAC said the spark wasn't even getting to the dizzy. I cleaned the low tension contacts on the coil and greased them too, but this doesn't appear to have made any difference. One thing I noticed though when checking with a multi-meter - with the low tension connections to the coil disconnected, I got a reading of 12v when the ignition was on. However, when they were reconnected to the coil and the ignition switched on, I got a reading of 0v across the terminals. If I tested from the positive coil connector to earth (on the exhaust manifold), then I got a reading of 12v. Would this suggest that the coil is duff?
Almost forgot to say - I also took the small module off the side of the distributor (I assume it's the amplifier module??) and cleaned it up and refitted it, but this made no difference either.
Thanks,
Dan.
>> Edited by griff430 on Friday 2nd April 08:28
I took the dizzy cap off last night and cleaned all the contacts etc, although I don't think that's causing the problem, because Mr RAC said the spark wasn't even getting to the dizzy. I cleaned the low tension contacts on the coil and greased them too, but this doesn't appear to have made any difference. One thing I noticed though when checking with a multi-meter - with the low tension connections to the coil disconnected, I got a reading of 12v when the ignition was on. However, when they were reconnected to the coil and the ignition switched on, I got a reading of 0v across the terminals. If I tested from the positive coil connector to earth (on the exhaust manifold), then I got a reading of 12v. Would this suggest that the coil is duff?
Almost forgot to say - I also took the small module off the side of the distributor (I assume it's the amplifier module??) and cleaned it up and refitted it, but this made no difference either.
Thanks,
Dan.
>> Edited by griff430 on Friday 2nd April 08:28
I can understand where loose cannon is coming from but I found nothing like that in my ECU. Better be safe than sorry though...
If you don't want to open it, don't. Let a proffesional do it but from the symtoms you have said it does sound like water ingress into the ECU.
Try putting it in the airing cuboard for a couple of days... but if there is any build up of "furry" stuff in the ECU then this will attract water and needs to be brushed off.
If you want to call me to talk it over then drop me a mail...
If you don't want to open it, don't. Let a proffesional do it but from the symtoms you have said it does sound like water ingress into the ECU.
Try putting it in the airing cuboard for a couple of days... but if there is any build up of "furry" stuff in the ECU then this will attract water and needs to be brushed off.
If you want to call me to talk it over then drop me a mail...
If you've cleaned the ignition amplifier up, it probably means you'll have wiped all the gunge off the surface that sits against the dizzy - this gunge (white on my car) is heatsink paste, and allows better transfer of heat away from the amp. If the amp was maybe playing up to start with, it'll break down a lot quicker with less of a heat dissipation path. I'm no chef (beans on burnt toast is about my limit), but cooking the ECU in the oven as recommended above is a really bad idea...
...every real TVR owner knows it should be pan fried in white wine with a few mushrooms and a hint of garlic
:I'llgetmeapron:
>> Edited by andy43 on Friday 2nd April 10:38
...every real TVR owner knows it should be pan fried in white wine with a few mushrooms and a hint of garlic
:I'llgetmeapron: >> Edited by andy43 on Friday 2nd April 10:38
alexmckie said:
Had the same problem..
Try taking the ECU out and take it inside and dry it thoroughly. I took mine apart and put the pcb in the rayburn @ 150 degrees for 5 to 10 minutes (adjust accordingly for fan assisted ovens) then leave in the house overnight and then refit.
Hope this helps
Just spotted your comment re-Rayburn @ 150 degrees !!!
Not a very useful suggestion unless your are the Director of an ECU Factory??
Did you mean 150 degrees Farenheit ?? If not qualified by C or F some poor sap is going to fry his ECU with advise like that.
Domestically, the warmest place for an ECU to dry-out is in an airing cupboard, please don't avocate the use of Ovens for electronics PLEASE !!!
Trev McM
The airing cupboard is another option, but really, the frying pan is fine, as long as you use plenty of Mobil 1 (Motorsport only, not the usual thinner stuff) to stop the ECU sticking in the pan....
... or you could try Camco in Warrington, if the ECU is a suspect, as they've got all the test equipment to check Rover/TVR ECUs out and repair or recondition if necessary.
... or you could try Camco in Warrington, if the ECU is a suspect, as they've got all the test equipment to check Rover/TVR ECUs out and repair or recondition if necessary.
Andy43,
There didn't appear to be much gunge between the amplifier module and the distributor. Maybe it's that breaking down the? Going to see Dave Batty at lunch time to get some spare parts, so hopefully will be able to get it back on the road this weekend!!
Dan.
PS Won't be putting the ECU in the oven, but may put it in the airing cupboard if a replacement coil and/or amplifier doesn't solve the problem.
There didn't appear to be much gunge between the amplifier module and the distributor. Maybe it's that breaking down the? Going to see Dave Batty at lunch time to get some spare parts, so hopefully will be able to get it back on the road this weekend!!
Dan.
PS Won't be putting the ECU in the oven, but may put it in the airing cupboard if a replacement coil and/or amplifier doesn't solve the problem.
Nice motor by the way!! Mine's identical, but green with flint interior. If you're going to a dealer, ask him if the Rover ECU fault code reader will plug into your wiring loom - I found on my pre-cat that the fault code reader won't plug into the early Griff loom as the correct socket isn't on the loom like the later 500s. The reader comes with a rectangular or square black plug, and my loom has a white round socket. I was tempted to try and make an adapter cable up, but didn't know the correct wiring sequence and didn't fancy blowing up SFRs brand new code reader. If it is possible to get into the diagnostics, it could save you a lot of wallet-ache.
I've been investigating the ECU, and the outside casing was damp, but when I opened it up, there was no sign of dampness, or that any had entered the unit. Having said that, I could omly get to the side with the components, I couldn't see the electrical track side to see if that was OK. The only connection to the ECU is a black rectangular one. Is this the standard Rover one?
I've also changed the coil and ingition amplifier module, but the car still will not start. I've laid the HT lead from the coil on the exhaust manifold to see if a spark is jumping when I turn the engine over, but nothing is happening, so I assume the problem is occuring before the coil. I've checked and double checked that the coil is receiving the 12v input on the low tension side, so I'm stuck for ideas now.
IS there anything else I could look for?
Thanks,
Dan.
I've also changed the coil and ingition amplifier module, but the car still will not start. I've laid the HT lead from the coil on the exhaust manifold to see if a spark is jumping when I turn the engine over, but nothing is happening, so I assume the problem is occuring before the coil. I've checked and double checked that the coil is receiving the 12v input on the low tension side, so I'm stuck for ideas now.
IS there anything else I could look for?
Thanks,
Dan.
Gassing Station | Griffith | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff