Won't start when hot.........and then does start.

[becky]

Some 'diagnostic' (and remedy) ideas would be appreciated please about an intermittment and very annoying problem with my Griff.

If I get caught in traffic when it's warm and have to crawl for a bit and then stop, switch off and leave the car for a little while (say, to get fuel), it sometimes won't re-start when I return to it. More specifically, I can cancel the immobiliser, put the key in the ignition and turn it and nothing happens especially not the sound of the fuel pumps priming which I can normally hear very clearly. If the car is then left for a while, around 20 mins plus at least, I can try again and get the sound of the pumps priming and it fires. Any help would be very welcome. It's going to those nice chaps at Fernies on Friday for its annual service but I would welcome some ideas ahead of that.

[Big Al.]

Without the "have to crawl for a bit and then stop"
It very much sounds like a typical hot start problem! Starter motor on the way out.

i.e. Stop when hot and try to restart nothing! Until 15 - 20 minute later when all comes back to life.

Sorry that's about it.

Might see you at Fernies on Friday I'm up there in the afternoon. Keep a look out for a LOAD Crimson Starmist Chim.

[Marlon]

Yes, it does sound like the starter motor - mine does it too! However, the fuel pump still works when mine is hot, i.e. ignition on, fuel pump whine, turn key and nothing happens. 15 mins later, hey-presto.

The problem was 'fixed' for over 12 months by installing a heat shield around the starter motor (Tower View did it), but the symptoms have come back recently. Might be worth giving them a call:
www.t-v-r-services.co.uk/

>> Edited by Marlon on Monday 26th April 12:22

[K4TRV]

If you can't hear the "pump priming" then it will NOT be the starter motor.

Your pump is powered via ECU and the immobilser - first is to ensure its not the immobilser playing up - when you come back to start it, keep locking/unlocking then switching the ignition on and listening for the pump - no point trying to start if you don't hear the pump. If on/off/on/off routine doesn't "reduce" the time to restart then you may have a pump that is on its way out. If it does start then your alarm/immobilser may well be the problem.

Another problem may be the fuel rail sensor - too much under bonnet heat and it switches the pump off ?? Not sure if you have that sensor or not??

But if you don't hear the pumps prime then there's not much point trying to blame the starter motor for not starting !! Maybe you need to just explain a bit further ??

Trev McM

[chim500nj]

I had this problem on my Old Chim 95 MY. It is classic heat soak into the starter motor. I used to have to open the bonnet for a couple of minutes to cool it down and then if fired first time.

I believe the Heat Shield was fitted on all MY 97 Onwards certainly in the Chim..

Hope this helps.

[andy43]

As far as I know, the fuel pump is powered from relays next to the fusebox - if they're suspect, maybe sticky or something, the pump won't go 'zzzz' when you turn the key. Mine goes 'zzzz' for about one-two seconds after turning the key to 'ignition'. It cuts out as the ECU senses the engine hasn't spun up on the starter, and cuts the relay(s) - it's an anti-accident measure, to cut the fuel supply if the engine stops with the ignition on. No idea why a faulty relay would 'fix' itsself after 20 minutes tho'. Could be a dodgy immobiliser? Note 'zzzzz' is a very technical term!

>> Edited by andy43 on Monday 26th April 16:21

[RAW-SEWedge]

When you say nothing happens, does it actually turn the engine over and just not fire ? or does nothing at all happen ? In which case do the dash lights dim at all and what reading are you gettting on the volt meter ?

If it turns over and does not fire then - Guys do Griffs suffer from fuel vaporisation in the injector rails like my old Wedge did when hot ? I've not noticed the problem with my current Griff but may be something to consider.

[becky]

Hi everyone, thanks for all contributions so far. Sorry not to have come back sooner but have been away for a couple of days. If it's any help the most noticeable thing is that the pumps don't go 'zzzzzzzz', just absolutely nothing whereas normally, the pumps go 'zzzzzzzz' and then it fires. I've not really noticed anything with the voltmeter I'm afraid.My own impression is that it's a 'heat soak' problem affecting the pump in some way.....is this possible? Thanks anyone who has further or additional thoughts.

[Toffer]

Would the problem manifest itself near the fire station, police station or petrol station?

The petrol pump telemetry at a Sainsbury's petrol station near me interferes with my imobiliser and I have to try randomly to start the Grif!

If I park next to Haverhill fire station the same thing happens...

I have used OPTIMAX for ages so never go to Sainsbury's petrol station and avoid parking by the fire station. Strangely the problem manifested itself most when the car was really hot. I have eliminated any other possibility and am certain that this was the problem as there has never been a recurrence.

Hope this strange theory is helpful?

Toffer

[david beer]

My Griff began cutting out when the dash got hot, the immobiliser would cut the ignition, not nice mid over take on a country road!! There are three circuits "it" controls, ign, fuel pump and starter. Mine are now over-ridden (sp) and never had any probs since. Just in case Mr, "what about anti theft devices" is reading, i can over-ride the "original fit" immobiliser, but nobody could over-ride mine ! I would say get it checked out soon, imagine rail way crossing !

[snarfy]

Guys I've currently got a problem with a new, rather cheap starter motor. Symptoms are as follows. Engine starts fine when cold. When hot though the starter turns over really sluggishly...almost like the batter is flat. Sometimes then speeds up and the engine fires but generally slows to a stop. Battery volts drop to about 9 or less. Fule pumps have primed etc so just the starter. The old one didn't have this problem.
Was it just too cheap ?

[barbon]

I had the same problem and after some time discovered it was the stepper motor(not starter motor)located by the side of the pleneum chamber, cost £20 and solved the problem right away.