Explain why pre-cats are so much cheeper than a 500?????
Discussion
Misconceptions I would suggest. Power being the main one. A good 500 makes nothing near 300 bhp standard, certainly a good 4.3 pre-cat runs it very close until very illegal speeds. Mine is probably ahead anyway 
Gearbox may be a fair point but the rest is all very minor imo. It's very hard to find a like for like comparison in terms of condition/spec these days. I'm sure we'd all advocate condition over any particular model.
Age brings it's own issues regardless of model type I guess. My BV does show its age in tiny areas compared to my 500, but the 500 was only 3 when I bought it so, again, not a fair comparison really. I personally think pre-cats are the better "investment" but in reality they will never make money if they're used and serviced properly anyway!
Gearbox may be a fair point but the rest is all very minor imo. It's very hard to find a like for like comparison in terms of condition/spec these days. I'm sure we'd all advocate condition over any particular model.
Age brings it's own issues regardless of model type I guess. My BV does show its age in tiny areas compared to my 500, but the 500 was only 3 when I bought it so, again, not a fair comparison really. I personally think pre-cats are the better "investment" but in reality they will never make money if they're used and serviced properly anyway!
3024E said:
Very little difference.......
I prefer pre-cats because of the noise but having driven a 500 it does have the power...
So is it purely the power????????
Pre-cats are better
1. Noise.
2. Rawness
3. Rarer
4. Cheaper
My 4.3BV has more than plenty *power* than is safe for the roads we drive on, its not tuned or s/charged or anything silly just extremely quick if you want it to be, i frankly cant imagine a 500 griff being any quicker in real life........I prefer pre-cats because of the noise but having driven a 500 it does have the power...
So is it purely the power????????
Pre-cats are better
1. Noise.
2. Rawness
3. Rarer
4. Cheaper
My daily driver is an 05' subaru sti with prodrive in case anyone thinks i dont have a real life yardstick as to the Griff's ability....
Sandy
Well, it would be churlish not to rise to this eh 
I agree with the comment about better brakes, the standard 4.x brakes are downright dangerous and easily swapped for the later, bigger and much better versions. It should be a must-do for any 4.x owner IMHO
Although the LT77 gearbox is more than capable of handling the power you struggle to quick-shift with the LT77 - so learn not to. You also quickly learn about going into 3rd before reverse to avoid looking like a muppet when you crunch the it into reverse.
I don't understand the comments about better interior because apart from the lower dash configuration for the heater and window switches I'm not aware of any differences.
Better wheels ?
In the eye of the beholder my friend.
The heater is much better in the later cars.
Engine cooling is less of an issue with the later cars due to the opening in front of the rad being extended around the high beam lights rather than just a small slit between them. But if the cooling system is in good nick it shouldn't be an issue, although as my car has a later front end I can't say I have first-hand experience of it.
The noise of the pre-cat is the best V8 noise there is, which is why 500 owners tinker with removing precats and silencer baffles to try and emulate it
The rest is people just thinking bigger is better because they don't know better
I agree with the comment about better brakes, the standard 4.x brakes are downright dangerous and easily swapped for the later, bigger and much better versions. It should be a must-do for any 4.x owner IMHO
Although the LT77 gearbox is more than capable of handling the power you struggle to quick-shift with the LT77 - so learn not to. You also quickly learn about going into 3rd before reverse to avoid looking like a muppet when you crunch the it into reverse.
I don't understand the comments about better interior because apart from the lower dash configuration for the heater and window switches I'm not aware of any differences.
Better wheels ?
In the eye of the beholder my friend.
The heater is much better in the later cars.
Engine cooling is less of an issue with the later cars due to the opening in front of the rad being extended around the high beam lights rather than just a small slit between them. But if the cooling system is in good nick it shouldn't be an issue, although as my car has a later front end I can't say I have first-hand experience of it.
The noise of the pre-cat is the best V8 noise there is, which is why 500 owners tinker with removing precats and silencer baffles to try and emulate it
The rest is people just thinking bigger is better because they don't know better
i have had both, the heater blower on the precats is pittyful, sitting in traffic in heavy rain, it is impossible to clear the windows, loved the free reving and sound of the precat, and the oz split rims were stunning on the griff, you can keep your ford style estorils
, my old 4.3 would keep up with a standard 5 litre all the time, i upgraded the brakes and suspension, loved it to bits, but wanted more power so i bought a 500 to tune up.
i bought a stainless straight through exhaust, and added a carbon plenumb to help the engine breath properly,ended up with a 320bhp street go cart.(lots of engine work aswell) would have left my 4.3 behind no problem, but if i had the choice i would definately buy another 4.3, especially a bv.had my hands on a cracking 4.3 last year then sold it to finance the racing,(biggest mistake ever) gagging for another griff but can't afford one right now.
so looking for a wedge.
, my old 4.3 would keep up with a standard 5 litre all the time, i upgraded the brakes and suspension, loved it to bits, but wanted more power so i bought a 500 to tune up.i bought a stainless straight through exhaust, and added a carbon plenumb to help the engine breath properly,ended up with a 320bhp street go cart.(lots of engine work aswell) would have left my 4.3 behind no problem, but if i had the choice i would definately buy another 4.3, especially a bv.had my hands on a cracking 4.3 last year then sold it to finance the racing,(biggest mistake ever) gagging for another griff but can't afford one right now.
so looking for a wedge.
JamesK said:
Shame on me Steve, I've read the bible too! Is it fundamentally different or just different shocks/springs etc? My pre-cat has Nitrons, stiffer springs and polybushed front suspension so I can't compare directly.
It is different springs/shocks and the addition of a rear ARB.I've driven both standard cars and the 500 suspension is just that bit more refined and predictable.
well generally they are older... thus, really high mileage ones, one in poor condition drag the prices down. as buyers compare price in autotrdaer not condition.
As more people get into rebuilding them /refurbishing them prices will firm.
I know of 2 people, restoring basket case unloved griffs.
As more people get into rebuilding them /refurbishing them prices will firm.
I know of 2 people, restoring basket case unloved griffs.
tbdgriff500 said:
i have had both, the heater blower on the precats is pittyful, sitting in traffic in heavy rain, it is impossible to clear the windows, loved the free reving and sound of the precat, and the oz split rims were stunning on the griff, you can keep your ford style estorils , my old 4.3 would keep up with a standard 5 litre all the time, i upgraded the brakes and suspension, loved it to bits, but wanted more power so i bought a 500 to tune up.
i bought a stainless straight through exhaust, and added a carbon plenumb to help the engine breath properly,ended up with a 320bhp street go cart.(lots of engine work aswell) would have left my 4.3 behind no problem, but if i had the choice i would definately buy another 4.3, especially a bv.had my hands on a cracking 4.3 last year then sold it to finance the racing,(biggest mistake ever) gagging for another griff but can't afford one right now.
so looking for a wedge.
HI tim , Car going well done a few more mods , at the 2010 growl, won best modded griff, and loudest @ 129.6 db , my old 4.3 would keep up with a standard 5 litre all the time, i upgraded the brakes and suspension, loved it to bits, but wanted more power so i bought a 500 to tune up.i bought a stainless straight through exhaust, and added a carbon plenumb to help the engine breath properly,ended up with a 320bhp street go cart.(lots of engine work aswell) would have left my 4.3 behind no problem, but if i had the choice i would definately buy another 4.3, especially a bv.had my hands on a cracking 4.3 last year then sold it to finance the racing,(biggest mistake ever) gagging for another griff but can't afford one right now.
so looking for a wedge.
BJWoods said:
well generally they are older... thus, really high mileage ones, one in poor condition drag the prices down. as buyers compare price in autotrdaer not condition.
As more people get into rebuilding them /refurbishing them prices will firm.
I know of 2 people, restoring basket case unloved griffs.
Well yes, As more people get into rebuilding them /refurbishing them prices will firm.
I know of 2 people, restoring basket case unloved griffs.
I totally agree with you on that point as i experienced that for myself with a MK1 Escort RS2000 i bought when i was 19, they were cheaper at the time than the mk2 RS2000, and didnt look as good, older, crap suspension, bad brakes, looked like a std escort as well ...etc etc etc
20 yrs on it will now cost you £20k for a mint MK1 , and only £10k for a mint MK2 !!!!!!!!
3024E said:
Very little difference.......
I prefer pre-cats because of the noise but having driven a 500 it does have the power...
So is it purely the power????????
just drive a good early standard 4 litre model then a good late standard 500, that's why.I prefer pre-cats because of the noise but having driven a 500 it does have the power...
So is it purely the power????????
just like a standard T350 isn't a patch on a standard Sagaris,
they ain't as good.
As we move forward any major differences will decrease.
Anyone selling an early car will be hard pressed to sell it by advertising it as having original standard dampers. Who would want a car on 19 year old springs and dampers, therefore the dampers will get upgraded to probably better than standard 500 spec.
It doesn't take alot to upgrade the brakes on these cars, therefore the brakes will probably get upgraded to at least 500 spec if not better.
The heating system on a 500 is better, but it doesnt take a lot to improve air movement on a precat, mine actually whistles in the cab now, there is so much airflow.
Interior wise there are not alot of differences.
I too cannot see the sometimes large asking price between pre-cats and later Griffs. However, there are some pre-cats that fetch more than a 500 would.
Through my activities I see alot of griffs and chimaeras. There are some MY's that I would try and avoid for certain reasons, some features hidden behind the dash/carpets that I would like to have,others I think WTF did they do it like that.
So, are precats better than 500's?. Debatable.
Are 500's better than precats? Debatable.
Depends on the individual car. Would I swap mine for a 500? An SE maybe, but not for sure.
Anyone selling an early car will be hard pressed to sell it by advertising it as having original standard dampers. Who would want a car on 19 year old springs and dampers, therefore the dampers will get upgraded to probably better than standard 500 spec.
It doesn't take alot to upgrade the brakes on these cars, therefore the brakes will probably get upgraded to at least 500 spec if not better.
The heating system on a 500 is better, but it doesnt take a lot to improve air movement on a precat, mine actually whistles in the cab now, there is so much airflow.
Interior wise there are not alot of differences.
I too cannot see the sometimes large asking price between pre-cats and later Griffs. However, there are some pre-cats that fetch more than a 500 would.
Through my activities I see alot of griffs and chimaeras. There are some MY's that I would try and avoid for certain reasons, some features hidden behind the dash/carpets that I would like to have,others I think WTF did they do it like that.
So, are precats better than 500's?. Debatable.
Are 500's better than precats? Debatable.
Depends on the individual car. Would I swap mine for a 500? An SE maybe, but not for sure.
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