Is an LT77 from a Landy the same as ours
Discussion
Barreti said:
Eyup chaps.
Can one of you techheads tell me if the LT77 in my Landy is the same internally as the LT77 in my Griff.
I have the chance of a spare Landy LT77 and wondered if it is worth getting and shoving on the shelf as a potential spare for both cars.
Ta.
IanB
My understanding is that they are not the same, certainly gear ratios are different and LT77 was made for 4wd and 2wd cars. The closest relative is from a Rover SD1 or a Sherpa VanCan one of you techheads tell me if the LT77 in my Landy is the same internally as the LT77 in my Griff.
I have the chance of a spare Landy LT77 and wondered if it is worth getting and shoving on the shelf as a potential spare for both cars.
Ta.
IanB
The Internet said:
s section is largely a rewording of an e-mail Mike Nieuwoudt published on the za-lro (Southern Africa) e-mail list. It is used with permission.
The "recent" history of LR main gearboxes goes roughly as follows:
In the beginning when Rover needed a stronger gearbox for the new Range Rover and the 101 V8s they developed the LT95. During this time Rover was part of British Leyland so the LT stands for Leyland Transmission. "95" stands for the distance between the main and lay shafts in mm.
The LT 95 was a robust four speed gearbox with the transfer case built into the same enclosure (but they have different fluid reservoirs). One of the nice things about the LT95 was that there were a number of transfer case ratios available and you did not need to pull the box to change them. The gearbox was used on Range Rover through 1983, all 109 Stage 1 V8, all 101 and on 1983 and 1984 V8 Nineties and One Tens. The 101 LT95 is different from the unit used in the early RR or 110 V8s. The biggest difference is the bell housing and input shaft are shorter and the high ratio gear is pretty tall so, unless you're running big rubber you will run out of RPMs pretty quickly. The gear on the top of the box is very short as the 101 has a remote gear linkage. If yo're putting it into a different Land Rover you will need to either modify the gear shift lever or source one from an early RR or 110 V8. The LT97 has a central diff so it powers both axles all the time. You'll need CV half shafts in the front axle. The center diff is lockable using a vaccuum actuator. This requires a vacuum line to be run from the engine.
This gearbox uses 20/50 engine oil for both the gearbox and transfer case. This is apparently because it has it's own oil pump lubing the gearbox. A comon mistake leading to early demise is running 90wt.
Starting with 1984 models Rover abandoned the LT95 four speed gearbox and went to five speed gearboxes, the LT77 and the LT85. The LT77 is the lighter duty of the pair. The LT85 was used on the V8 versions of the Ninety and One Ten. Since the LT77 is a 2WD passenger car gearbox, Rover added the LT230 transfer case for full time 4WD. (LT230? Yes, 230 mm parallel spacing between input and output shafts!)
1984 through 1990 When Rover (still part of British Leyland) decided to go to a five speed gearbox they picked the existing LT77 for use in certain vehicles. The LT77 is an updated version of an old Jaguar gearbox that found its way into current model British cars manufactured by British Leyland. Yes the distance between the main and lay shafts is 77 mm. There were two version of this gearbox. The earlier version is known as the short stick version. The later version, introduced around 1988 is known as the long stick version.
The Range Rover received the LT77 in 1984 because it was less expensive than the new LT85 and considered strong enough for the 3.5L V8 to use as a street cruising gearbox. The four cylinder Ninety and One Ten also received the LT77. When the Discovery was introduced it got the LT77 as well.
1984 through 1991: The LT85 (85 mm shaft spacing) was used in all V8 110 and 90 Land Rovers. The LT85 was originally designed under contract by Land Rover for Santana in Spain and was considered to be a strong working gearbox. Rover purchased LT85 gearboxes directly from Santana. It is also known as the Spanish Box. This gearbox was used as originally designed until 1988. A cost reduced, lighter weight, divided case version of the LT85 was introduced in 1988 and used through 1991. The main short coming of the divided case version was its main and lay shaft bearings. The loading on the bearings in 5th gear caused frequent gearbox failure when cruising for long periods of time under high throttle. There was also a bearing quality problem at one stage of manufacture and the gearbox was sensitive to the type of oil used.
In 1991 the relationship between Rover and Santana ended and the LT85 was no longer available to Rover. They needed to find a quick short term solution while they developed a new stronger gearbox.
1991 through 1993 The LT77S was introduced to the Defender V8 line and all models using the Tdi engine as an interim replacement for the no longer available LT85. The LT77S was a strengthened version of the LT77. The 'S' on the LT77S stands for 'Synchromesh'...it was modified for a 'smoother gear change'. The bell housings and input shafts of the LT77S differ between the V8 and Tdi due to Tdi's more aft location.
The "recent" history of LR main gearboxes goes roughly as follows:
In the beginning when Rover needed a stronger gearbox for the new Range Rover and the 101 V8s they developed the LT95. During this time Rover was part of British Leyland so the LT stands for Leyland Transmission. "95" stands for the distance between the main and lay shafts in mm.
The LT 95 was a robust four speed gearbox with the transfer case built into the same enclosure (but they have different fluid reservoirs). One of the nice things about the LT95 was that there were a number of transfer case ratios available and you did not need to pull the box to change them. The gearbox was used on Range Rover through 1983, all 109 Stage 1 V8, all 101 and on 1983 and 1984 V8 Nineties and One Tens. The 101 LT95 is different from the unit used in the early RR or 110 V8s. The biggest difference is the bell housing and input shaft are shorter and the high ratio gear is pretty tall so, unless you're running big rubber you will run out of RPMs pretty quickly. The gear on the top of the box is very short as the 101 has a remote gear linkage. If yo're putting it into a different Land Rover you will need to either modify the gear shift lever or source one from an early RR or 110 V8. The LT97 has a central diff so it powers both axles all the time. You'll need CV half shafts in the front axle. The center diff is lockable using a vaccuum actuator. This requires a vacuum line to be run from the engine.
This gearbox uses 20/50 engine oil for both the gearbox and transfer case. This is apparently because it has it's own oil pump lubing the gearbox. A comon mistake leading to early demise is running 90wt.
Starting with 1984 models Rover abandoned the LT95 four speed gearbox and went to five speed gearboxes, the LT77 and the LT85. The LT77 is the lighter duty of the pair. The LT85 was used on the V8 versions of the Ninety and One Ten. Since the LT77 is a 2WD passenger car gearbox, Rover added the LT230 transfer case for full time 4WD. (LT230? Yes, 230 mm parallel spacing between input and output shafts!)
1984 through 1990 When Rover (still part of British Leyland) decided to go to a five speed gearbox they picked the existing LT77 for use in certain vehicles. The LT77 is an updated version of an old Jaguar gearbox that found its way into current model British cars manufactured by British Leyland. Yes the distance between the main and lay shafts is 77 mm. There were two version of this gearbox. The earlier version is known as the short stick version. The later version, introduced around 1988 is known as the long stick version.
The Range Rover received the LT77 in 1984 because it was less expensive than the new LT85 and considered strong enough for the 3.5L V8 to use as a street cruising gearbox. The four cylinder Ninety and One Ten also received the LT77. When the Discovery was introduced it got the LT77 as well.
1984 through 1991: The LT85 (85 mm shaft spacing) was used in all V8 110 and 90 Land Rovers. The LT85 was originally designed under contract by Land Rover for Santana in Spain and was considered to be a strong working gearbox. Rover purchased LT85 gearboxes directly from Santana. It is also known as the Spanish Box. This gearbox was used as originally designed until 1988. A cost reduced, lighter weight, divided case version of the LT85 was introduced in 1988 and used through 1991. The main short coming of the divided case version was its main and lay shaft bearings. The loading on the bearings in 5th gear caused frequent gearbox failure when cruising for long periods of time under high throttle. There was also a bearing quality problem at one stage of manufacture and the gearbox was sensitive to the type of oil used.
In 1991 the relationship between Rover and Santana ended and the LT85 was no longer available to Rover. They needed to find a quick short term solution while they developed a new stronger gearbox.
1991 through 1993 The LT77S was introduced to the Defender V8 line and all models using the Tdi engine as an interim replacement for the no longer available LT85. The LT77S was a strengthened version of the LT77. The 'S' on the LT77S stands for 'Synchromesh'...it was modified for a 'smoother gear change'. The bell housings and input shafts of the LT77S differ between the V8 and Tdi due to Tdi's more aft location.
Ah, looks like its not a goer then.
This is out of a Range Rover Classic so there's no chance it will be any use for the Griff.
Since the Landy is more of a garage queen than the Griff there's not much point getting a spare gearbox just for it to use shelf space. Its done less than 3k miles in the last 3 years!
Thanks for the info chaps. I greatly appreciate your help (as usual)
IanB
This is out of a Range Rover Classic so there's no chance it will be any use for the Griff.
Since the Landy is more of a garage queen than the Griff there's not much point getting a spare gearbox just for it to use shelf space. Its done less than 3k miles in the last 3 years!
Thanks for the info chaps. I greatly appreciate your help (as usual)
IanB
Well at least I now know what gearbox I have in the Landy, thanks for the link Blitzracing.
Its easy to find where the gearbox number is, but hard to read as it seems to have been scratched in with somebodys fingernail rather than punched in
For my own reference in the future as much as anything else - my Landy gearbox number is 50A 0195332E and that tallys with the Ashcroft information for a 1986 Defender (Ninety)
I'll see if I can find out the details from the RRC box.
Thanks chaps.
Its easy to find where the gearbox number is, but hard to read as it seems to have been scratched in with somebodys fingernail rather than punched in
For my own reference in the future as much as anything else - my Landy gearbox number is 50A 0195332E and that tallys with the Ashcroft information for a 1986 Defender (Ninety)
I'll see if I can find out the details from the RRC box.
Thanks chaps.
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