I can afford to insure a 1293!
Discussion
Finally, on a classic car insurance I am able to afford a 1275 A-series bored out to a 1293!
I am obviously going to have to convert to front disks.
A friend of mine has a 1293 with 'fast road cam' and twin carbs that his dad used to race. He informs me that the engine has completed less than 1000 miles after a rebuild as the mini that it was in was scrapped due to a bad shell. Ok, so If im going to look at this 1293. What do i need to scrutinise or look out for? It has not been turned over im several years,and what tools for the scrutiny will i need to take with me when I look at this engine?
Thanks in advance. I will post part numbers and specs once I find them out!
Thanks in advance, Tom
I am obviously going to have to convert to front disks.
A friend of mine has a 1293 with 'fast road cam' and twin carbs that his dad used to race. He informs me that the engine has completed less than 1000 miles after a rebuild as the mini that it was in was scrapped due to a bad shell. Ok, so If im going to look at this 1293. What do i need to scrutinise or look out for? It has not been turned over im several years,and what tools for the scrutiny will i need to take with me when I look at this engine?
Thanks in advance. I will post part numbers and specs once I find them out!
Thanks in advance, Tom
tom
you need to go and look at it with no money and keep your hands in your pockets!
dont forget that if its a race engine its been built to race not to be used on the road car. a normal race car engine is stripped and rebuilt every 1000 miles or so, so clerances etc are far slacker than in a road car - if its a proper race engine it will (depending what it was used for) probably be undrivable on the road due to cam choice.
i would never buy a secondhand engine (especialy one banded about as 'race') without a) stripping it, or b) paying a 'lump' price (i.e the price i could get for the bits that i know (not told by vendor) are in it) - even if the seller will only split the engine and box in two so you can check odd bits its still a help.
ive been tucked up a good few times when i was younger like this. i once bought a 'fully rebuilt' 'spare from my racer' 'race engine' from a bloke, fitted it and when i got it running discovered to my dismay that it was nothing more than a clapped out knackered 1275 (with no oil pressure). at the time it was an expensive lesson learnt as it cost two monthe wages at the time. of course i dint get my money back!
another time i went to see a 1275 engine that the 'boaster' who was selling it had made a fair effort to paint the outside so it looked good. his mistake was to boast that it had a five speed box, just as i got my money out, by this time id learnt enough about minis to know that blokes on council estates might have cheap 1275s for sale, buy not ones with five speeders - i played the 'well lets get it stripped' card and was rapidly ejected out of his garage with a barage of excuses and insults about me 'not trusting him' etc. a very lucky escape.
as a rule of thumb, if the seller will not provide invoices for work done, or allow you to strip the engine then the max you should pay for a 1275 motor is probably 200 quid, thats what its worth as a core unit.
when i bought my complete 1430 8 port i paid very very strong money for a muddy battered old engine, but i had to gamble that what was inside was ok (it had come out of a grasser that had rolled five times), i had to gamble as the 8 port is so rare that i was willing to take the risk, fortunatley the price i paid was roughly what the ebayble breakdown price of the valuable bits was.
i have heard many, many horror stories of people buying 'race' or 'fast road rebuild' 1275s over the years, so just be careful.
you need to go and look at it with no money and keep your hands in your pockets!
dont forget that if its a race engine its been built to race not to be used on the road car. a normal race car engine is stripped and rebuilt every 1000 miles or so, so clerances etc are far slacker than in a road car - if its a proper race engine it will (depending what it was used for) probably be undrivable on the road due to cam choice.
i would never buy a secondhand engine (especialy one banded about as 'race') without a) stripping it, or b) paying a 'lump' price (i.e the price i could get for the bits that i know (not told by vendor) are in it) - even if the seller will only split the engine and box in two so you can check odd bits its still a help.
ive been tucked up a good few times when i was younger like this. i once bought a 'fully rebuilt' 'spare from my racer' 'race engine' from a bloke, fitted it and when i got it running discovered to my dismay that it was nothing more than a clapped out knackered 1275 (with no oil pressure). at the time it was an expensive lesson learnt as it cost two monthe wages at the time. of course i dint get my money back!
another time i went to see a 1275 engine that the 'boaster' who was selling it had made a fair effort to paint the outside so it looked good. his mistake was to boast that it had a five speed box, just as i got my money out, by this time id learnt enough about minis to know that blokes on council estates might have cheap 1275s for sale, buy not ones with five speeders - i played the 'well lets get it stripped' card and was rapidly ejected out of his garage with a barage of excuses and insults about me 'not trusting him' etc. a very lucky escape.
as a rule of thumb, if the seller will not provide invoices for work done, or allow you to strip the engine then the max you should pay for a 1275 motor is probably 200 quid, thats what its worth as a core unit.
when i bought my complete 1430 8 port i paid very very strong money for a muddy battered old engine, but i had to gamble that what was inside was ok (it had come out of a grasser that had rolled five times), i had to gamble as the 8 port is so rare that i was willing to take the risk, fortunatley the price i paid was roughly what the ebayble breakdown price of the valuable bits was.
i have heard many, many horror stories of people buying 'race' or 'fast road rebuild' 1275s over the years, so just be careful.
Pick up a 1275cc A+ shagger from a breakers yard and do it all yourself. Then you can be 100% sure of the pedigree, and build the engine to the correct spec. A race cam in a road car is just a totally undrivable nightmare.
£150 tops for a complete 1275cc unit out of Metro. If it is a runner all the better, but bank on a minimum +20 re-bore, new pistons, crank grind and new mains/shells & New Cam and Cam bearings. Recondition and modify the head and you'll be 80% of the way to a really enjoyable fast road 1293 Mini.
£150 tops for a complete 1275cc unit out of Metro. If it is a runner all the better, but bank on a minimum +20 re-bore, new pistons, crank grind and new mains/shells & New Cam and Cam bearings. Recondition and modify the head and you'll be 80% of the way to a really enjoyable fast road 1293 Mini.
FWDRacer said:
Pick up a 1275cc A+ shagger from a breakers yard and do it all yourself. Then you can be 100% sure of the pedigree, and build the engine to the correct spec. A race cam in a road car is just a totally undrivable nightmare.
£150 tops for a complete 1275cc unit out of Metro. If it is a runner all the better, but bank on a minimum +20 re-bore, new pistons, crank grind and new mains/shells & New Cam and Cam bearings. Recondition and modify the head and you'll be 80% of the way to a really enjoyable fast road 1293 Mini.
I'd be after an A-series as A+ will use a different wiring loom to the one currently in my mini? £150 tops for a complete 1275cc unit out of Metro. If it is a runner all the better, but bank on a minimum +20 re-bore, new pistons, crank grind and new mains/shells & New Cam and Cam bearings. Recondition and modify the head and you'll be 80% of the way to a really enjoyable fast road 1293 Mini.
I'll go have a look at the engine, and strip it as it can be put back together. Really I'm 'just' looking for something I could build up outside of the car and drop it in, tune it up and get going.
Also, what are the characteristics of a race cam? What makes it not suitable for the road?
Thanks for the advice so far.
Edited by Mini_Lund on Wednesday 5th November 12:36
a+ or a ser make no change to the loom, at worse you will have to adapt the wires from the solinoid to the pre engaged starter, but this is easy.
race cams are terrible -there is the wear and attrition on the engine, barticuallt in the valve train area, also drivability, my 1071 come on cam at about 3500 rpm, below that its like a two cylinder sulker, then at 3500 it clears its throat and screams.
not ideal in traffic!
race cams are terrible -there is the wear and attrition on the engine, barticuallt in the valve train area, also drivability, my 1071 come on cam at about 3500 rpm, below that its like a two cylinder sulker, then at 3500 it clears its throat and screams.
not ideal in traffic!
An A+ will be fine - it is a better proposition to start with than standard A-series. It differs in having a strengthened ribbed block and different distributor drive/oil pump drive. You'll have no problems with compatibility into your Mini - it isn't like modern car that needs interchangeable 48-pin connectors to hook up the main body to engine harnesses 
A race cam - where do you start. It will make the car hard work, you'll have to rev the nuts off it and slip the clutch to get it off the mark.
a) You'll look like a prize boy racer tool doing this all the time.
b) It'll eat clutch plates
c) The guy in the corsa has just blown your doors off as his tractable eurobox is off and away and you've not even got 'on the cam' yet. Getting the car on the cam is when all the gases in the motor start flowing in the right direction, no polluted intake charge and the car rally starts to go...
d) You'll spend loads at the pumps.
e) You'll need a tough gearbox to cope with power/torque. Probaly straight cut. Your ears will experience tinnitus if you use it everyday.
f) Young ladies will not be enamoured. You'll get no action
Here is just an idea for suitable spec for your 1275 motor. Some on here will agree - other people will hoot in derision.
A+ s/h motor - +20 overbore, decent pistons (don't go spending hundreds as the right cam will mean the car should rev to 6k only). Don't go for much more than 270 degree duration cam for a road engine. An SW5 from swiftune is the business.
Build the thing with new oil pump, new cam bearings and new big ends/mains after a crank grind. Get the head worked, 35mm inlets (MG Metro size) and standard exhaust valves are fine. Compression ratio around 9.5 to 1. Fit an HIF44. Match up to your LCB/RC40 set-up. Take it to a rolling road and get the needle set-up and a Dizzy curve to suit cam profile/comp ratio. You'll get around 75-80bhp (Flywheel) and you can use the standard gearbox - no issue. The little car will be transformed, it'll be reliable and you get 30+ mpg at the pumps. You'll p!ss MOT emissions test and you'll wonder why you hadn't got that insurance quote 6months ago
A race cam - where do you start. It will make the car hard work, you'll have to rev the nuts off it and slip the clutch to get it off the mark.
a) You'll look like a prize boy racer tool doing this all the time.
b) It'll eat clutch plates
c) The guy in the corsa has just blown your doors off as his tractable eurobox is off and away and you've not even got 'on the cam' yet. Getting the car on the cam is when all the gases in the motor start flowing in the right direction, no polluted intake charge and the car rally starts to go...
d) You'll spend loads at the pumps.
e) You'll need a tough gearbox to cope with power/torque. Probaly straight cut. Your ears will experience tinnitus if you use it everyday.
f) Young ladies will not be enamoured. You'll get no action
Here is just an idea for suitable spec for your 1275 motor. Some on here will agree - other people will hoot in derision.
A+ s/h motor - +20 overbore, decent pistons (don't go spending hundreds as the right cam will mean the car should rev to 6k only). Don't go for much more than 270 degree duration cam for a road engine. An SW5 from swiftune is the business.
Build the thing with new oil pump, new cam bearings and new big ends/mains after a crank grind. Get the head worked, 35mm inlets (MG Metro size) and standard exhaust valves are fine. Compression ratio around 9.5 to 1. Fit an HIF44. Match up to your LCB/RC40 set-up. Take it to a rolling road and get the needle set-up and a Dizzy curve to suit cam profile/comp ratio. You'll get around 75-80bhp (Flywheel) and you can use the standard gearbox - no issue. The little car will be transformed, it'll be reliable and you get 30+ mpg at the pumps. You'll p!ss MOT emissions test and you'll wonder why you hadn't got that insurance quote 6months ago
FWDRacer said:
An A+ will be fine - it is a better proposition to start with than standard A-series. It differs in having a strengthened ribbed block and different distributor drive/oil pump drive. You'll have no problems with compatibility into your Mini - it isn't like modern car that needs interchangeable 48-pin connectors to hook up the main body to engine harnesses
A race cam - where do you start. It will make the car hard work, you'll have to rev the nuts off it and slip the clutch to get it off the mark.
a) You'll look like a prize boy racer tool doing this all the time.
b) It'll eat clutch plates
c) The guy in the corsa has just blown your doors off as his tractable eurobox is off and away and you've not even got 'on the cam' yet. Getting the car on the cam is when all the gases in the motor start flowing in the right direction, no polluted intake charge and the car rally starts to go...
d) You'll spend loads at the pumps.
e) You'll need a tough gearbox to cope with power/torque. Probaly straight cut. Your ears will experience tinnitus if you use it everyday.
f) Young ladies will not be enamoured. You'll get no action
Here is just an idea for suitable spec for your 1275 motor. Some on here will agree - other people will hoot in derision.
A+ s/h motor - +20 overbore, decent pistons (don't go spending hundreds as the right cam will mean the car should rev to 6k only). Don't go for much more than 270 degree duration cam for a road engine. An SW5 from swiftune is the business.
Build the thing with new oil pump, new cam bearings and new big ends/mains after a crank grind. Get the head worked, 35mm inlets (MG Metro size) and standard exhaust valves are fine. Compression ratio around 9.5 to 1. Fit an HIF44. Match up to your LCB/RC40 set-up. Take it to a rolling road and get the needle set-up and a Dizzy curve to suit cam profile/comp ratio. You'll get around 75-80bhp (Flywheel) and you can use the standard gearbox - no issue. The little car will be transformed, it'll be reliable and you get 30+ mpg at the pumps. You'll p!ss MOT emissions test and you'll wonder why you hadn't got that insurance quote 6months ago
Sounds wonderful to me, thanks for the basic info about cams! Currnetly my 850 needs the distributer advance curve chaging, but I'm not going to spend any more money on the litter blighter as Im after abit more 'kick' from a standard replacement engine. I'll have to find out what cam is in the engine and report back to you. Any easy way of finding out? I guess its not that simple. My bank might/might not be upto this!A race cam - where do you start. It will make the car hard work, you'll have to rev the nuts off it and slip the clutch to get it off the mark.
a) You'll look like a prize boy racer tool doing this all the time.
b) It'll eat clutch plates
c) The guy in the corsa has just blown your doors off as his tractable eurobox is off and away and you've not even got 'on the cam' yet. Getting the car on the cam is when all the gases in the motor start flowing in the right direction, no polluted intake charge and the car rally starts to go...
d) You'll spend loads at the pumps.
e) You'll need a tough gearbox to cope with power/torque. Probaly straight cut. Your ears will experience tinnitus if you use it everyday.
f) Young ladies will not be enamoured. You'll get no action
Here is just an idea for suitable spec for your 1275 motor. Some on here will agree - other people will hoot in derision.
A+ s/h motor - +20 overbore, decent pistons (don't go spending hundreds as the right cam will mean the car should rev to 6k only). Don't go for much more than 270 degree duration cam for a road engine. An SW5 from swiftune is the business.
Build the thing with new oil pump, new cam bearings and new big ends/mains after a crank grind. Get the head worked, 35mm inlets (MG Metro size) and standard exhaust valves are fine. Compression ratio around 9.5 to 1. Fit an HIF44. Match up to your LCB/RC40 set-up. Take it to a rolling road and get the needle set-up and a Dizzy curve to suit cam profile/comp ratio. You'll get around 75-80bhp (Flywheel) and you can use the standard gearbox - no issue. The little car will be transformed, it'll be reliable and you get 30+ mpg at the pumps. You'll p!ss MOT emissions test and you'll wonder why you hadn't got that insurance quote 6months ago
Tom
I just delivered one which is A+ at 1275 cc, a 276 cam, a 35 mm/30 mm valved head at 10.4:1,twin 1.5" SU's, pre-verto flywheel and with a 3.76:1 diff ratio.It gives 90 bhp at 5600. The pistons are Hepolite 21253, it has an LCB manifold and an RC 40 exhaust. It's very nice to drive too.
Cooperman said:
I just delivered one which is A+ at 1275 cc, a 276 cam, a 35 mm/30 mm valved head at 10.4:1,twin 1.5" SU's, pre-verto flywheel and with a 3.76:1 diff ratio.It gives 90 bhp at 5600. The pistons are Hepolite 21253, it has an LCB manifold and an RC 40 exhaust. It's very nice to drive too.
Thanks for rubbing it in! 
Sounds like a nice set-up.
Cheaper option? _ Bore out the 850, over size pistons, hairy cam!
OR
Source a 998, interchange the parts from my 850 to the 998, drop it in. Minifin brake drums. Instant power gains?
Edited by Mini_Lund on Wednesday 5th November 16:27
FWDRacer said:
A tuned 998 would be a hoot too in comparison with your 850. However - if you are re-buidling a motor from scratch - there is very little cost difference between a fully rebuilt/reworked 998 and a rebuilt/fettled 1275.
I'm in agreement with you. Well, I can have anything from 850 - 1430 engined mini, as long as its a mini engine my insurance is happy. The boring-out only adds an extra £80 or so, and replacement engine £100. Im just fed up of getting nowhere with an inefficent engine, which needs alot of work as it is obviously worn. Slight piston slap, burns oil - no blue smoke tho ? Worn pistons. Ideally needs an overbore, horned with oversize pistons, new rings, oil seals, possible crank regrind etc. However, I like the idea of building up an engine from a shed of an engine to a quirky, fun A series power plant!
I've always liked the 998 unit. It is so much smoother than a 1275 and revs more freely.
A 998 will bore out to 1061 cc, that's +0.080" and with a good cam, say a 266, MG Metro or original 510 Cooper 'S' cam, twin SU's or just a 1.5" single) and a 12G295 head it will give around 65 bhp, maybe a bit more.
A 998 will bore out to 1061 cc, that's +0.080" and with a good cam, say a 266, MG Metro or original 510 Cooper 'S' cam, twin SU's or just a 1.5" single) and a 12G295 head it will give around 65 bhp, maybe a bit more.
Cooperman said:
I've always liked the 998 unit. It is so much smoother than a 1275 and revs more freely.
A 998 will bore out to 1061 cc, that's +0.080" and with a good cam, say a 266, MG Metro or original 510 Cooper 'S' cam, twin SU's or just a 1.5" single) and a 12G295 head it will give around 65 bhp, maybe a bit more.
The 850's are the free revving power plants, not sure what they bore out to. Is it 948 tops? From what I can gather from you guys, it seems its 'all about' the cam choice; SW5, Kent 266 etcA 998 will bore out to 1061 cc, that's +0.080" and with a good cam, say a 266, MG Metro or original 510 Cooper 'S' cam, twin SU's or just a 1.5" single) and a 12G295 head it will give around 65 bhp, maybe a bit more.
I think that a 1293 or 1330 is the best compromise on the road, with a 260-270ish cam fitted. You'll get a sensible useable power range 1500-6000rpm, reasonable fuel economy if properly set up on a rolling road and better longevity than 1380-1430cc engines (there's still some wall thickness left for the head gasket to seal!). A decent re bored 998 will be a sweet revving unit, but can be hard work in a daily driver without much more low down torque than a well set up 850.
Having the engine balanced will make it feel smoother and stronger, and wont add much expense to the build.
Don't bother spending any money on the 850 - You'll never be satisfied with the results.
Having the engine balanced will make it feel smoother and stronger, and wont add much expense to the build.
Don't bother spending any money on the 850 - You'll never be satisfied with the results.
Have to agree with the above post.
My personal favourite for a road Mini is 1330 with Hepolite 21253 pistons, a Kent 276 cam, twin 1.5" SU's, or a single 1.75" on a decent manifold, a head with 35.6 mm inlets and 30.5 mm exhausts and nicely gas flowed with a comp ratio of around 10.4:1 and an Aldon Yellow or Red dizzy. Offset rockers are not necessary as all the power will be below about 6000 and it will pull strongly from about 3000. As for diff ratio, either 3.2 or 3.4 is good with 12" wheels. Ideally an LCB exhaust manifold with a twin-box RC 40 or twin-box Maniflow exhaust system
My personal favourite for a road Mini is 1330 with Hepolite 21253 pistons, a Kent 276 cam, twin 1.5" SU's, or a single 1.75" on a decent manifold, a head with 35.6 mm inlets and 30.5 mm exhausts and nicely gas flowed with a comp ratio of around 10.4:1 and an Aldon Yellow or Red dizzy. Offset rockers are not necessary as all the power will be below about 6000 and it will pull strongly from about 3000. As for diff ratio, either 3.2 or 3.4 is good with 12" wheels. Ideally an LCB exhaust manifold with a twin-box RC 40 or twin-box Maniflow exhaust system
Cooperman said:
Have to agree with the above post.
My personal favourite for a road Mini is 1330 with Hepolite 21253 pistons, a Kent 276 cam, twin 1.5" SU's, or a single 1.75" on a decent manifold, a head with 35.6 mm inlets and 30.5 mm exhausts and nicely gas flowed with a comp ratio of around 10.4:1 and an Aldon Yellow or Red dizzy. Offset rockers are not necessary as all the power will be below about 6000 and it will pull strongly from about 3000. As for diff ratio, either 3.2 or 3.4 is good with 12" wheels. Ideally an LCB exhaust manifold with a twin-box RC 40 or twin-box Maniflow exhaust system
Sounds like you've just read my current engine spec sheet! 1:5 roller rockers make the engine pull harder 4-6,000rpm at the expense of being drivable below 1500. Last time mine was on the RR at Aldon the flywheel figure was 104hp. Can't remember my diff ratio, but 80mph in fourth is 4,200rpm (12" wheels). Not bad for an old A series!My personal favourite for a road Mini is 1330 with Hepolite 21253 pistons, a Kent 276 cam, twin 1.5" SU's, or a single 1.75" on a decent manifold, a head with 35.6 mm inlets and 30.5 mm exhausts and nicely gas flowed with a comp ratio of around 10.4:1 and an Aldon Yellow or Red dizzy. Offset rockers are not necessary as all the power will be below about 6000 and it will pull strongly from about 3000. As for diff ratio, either 3.2 or 3.4 is good with 12" wheels. Ideally an LCB exhaust manifold with a twin-box RC 40 or twin-box Maniflow exhaust system
guru_1071 said:
JimexPL said:
Can't remember my diff ratio, but 80mph in fourth is 4,200rpm (12" wheels).
its a 3.2:1
It was my student runabout and never got round to selling it. 10 years later it's still sat in my parents garage and comes out occasionally on a sunny Sunday.
Haven't really done anything to the car since 2001 other than routine servicing, but it has probably only covered about 10,000 miles in that time.
For someone who has done thousands of miles behind the wheel of 400-500hp Corvettes the mini still brings a smile to my face.
JimexPL said:
guru_1071 said:
JimexPL said:
Can't remember my diff ratio, but 80mph in fourth is 4,200rpm (12" wheels).
its a 3.2:1It was my student runabout and never got round to selling it. 10 years later it's still sat in my parents garage and comes out occasionally on a sunny Sunday.
Haven't really done anything to the car since 2001 other than routine servicing, but it has probably only covered about 10,000 miles in that time.
For someone who has done thousands of miles behind the wheel of 400-500hp Corvettes the mini still brings a smile to my face.
No, I'm serious, go on, 50 quid that is!
You know where to find me!
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