V8 Converted Defender - Money pit

[kingstondc5]

Hello all,

Just wondering if anyones got any advice or knows anything about this vehicle;
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2011...

As its the sort of project id like to do but something im not sure if id actually go through, esp if as stated build costs are around 37.5k gbp.

Or would i be better off taking a TD4/5 to JE Engineering for suspension, brakes and their stage 1/2 engine treatment? As im not going to be taking it mud plugging that some would as itd spend more time on the road really.

Thanks

[bozmandb9]

I don't see why it would be a money pit, since somebody has already spent all the money for you! Not going to be light on fuel cost though, but if you want something like this then it looks like a steal to me considering all the extras!

[loafer123]

kingstondc5 said:

Hello all,

Just wondering if anyones got any advice or knows anything about this vehicle;
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2011...

As its the sort of project id like to do but something im not sure if id actually go through, esp if as stated build costs are around 37.5k gbp.

Or would i be better off taking a TD4/5 to JE Engineering for suspension, brakes and their stage 1/2 engine treatment? As im not going to be taking it mud plugging that some would as itd spend more time on the road really.

Thanks

I have probably read that advert about 20 times in the last two weeks and I think it is probably a bargain.

If he hadn't highlighted the non-standard fit items and taken some better pictures, I think it would have walked out of the door immediately.

Your worst case scenario is simply to dump the specialist engine and revert back to a standard V8 or TDi etc.

My only request - if you buy it, can I have a look?!

[oldcynic]

Advert states "receipts totalling £37K" - for a 20 year old car that could just be every single receipt from the day it was built.

Why would someone sell the car 32 miles after a £3K rebuild? I guess it's been so heavily road optimised that maybe they just didn't like the end result - kind of defeats the object of buying a defender.

[300bhp/ton]

kingstondc5 said:

Hello all,

Just wondering if anyones got any advice or knows anything about this vehicle;
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2011...

As its the sort of project id like to do but something im not sure if id actually go through, esp if as stated build costs are around 37.5k gbp.

Or would i be better off taking a TD4/5 to JE Engineering for suspension, brakes and their stage 1/2 engine treatment? As im not going to be taking it mud plugging that some would as itd spend more time on the road really.

Thanks

For £7 or 8k that seems ok.

Not really sure how they have spent £37k on it unless it included the cost of the Landy new.

Downsides are it'll drink like a fish and an auto box is hardly a sensible choice for performance, fun, speed, mpg or cruising rpms.

BTW - a TD4 is a Freelander.

All depends what you want though. Oh and lastly the suspension and cranked trailing arms on this one aren't exactly ideal for on road performance. Nothing wrong with it, but they are off road upgrades not on road ones.

Edited by 300bhp/ton on Wednesday 29th June 15:44

[TVR Tommy]

I think it might have already sold http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/4-0l-V8-Fast-Road-Defender-9...

[eliot]

Largely standard 3.9 engine - rather than a rip snorting 5.0L TVR conversion. Wouldn't get that excited.

[kingstondc5]

@Buggles - Sorry fella, basically i like the idea of doing this sort of project but would rather just buy one pre-done

@300 - Basically id like a road going Nemesis (or in my mind what a Nemesis should do) but in a Defender body so bit street sleeper'esq. By the sounds of it, im probably best of buying a TD5 and modifying that for street use... Though alternately part of me just thinks about buying a 2nd hand Cayenne Turbo as it'll be quicker and more refined that what i planned on the landy doing for the same sort of costs.

[C Lee Farquar]

Whilst it's academic now, there are a few things that ring alarm bells. It's not 100% rust free, there is rust on the chassis. The paintjob doesn't appear to be much more than a blow over, the bulkhead hasn't been done. The brake pipes are old, which doesn't stack up for a decent conversion/renovation especially when a more powerful engine has been fitted. The wiring looks amateurish, in fact the whole job looks amateurish with one or two shiney bits. I'm confused, or more likely the seller is, by the TVR spaceframe bit. Having said that at under £5k it would probably be worth a punt if you had some more to throw at it.

As has been mentioned you need some serious grunt to get a Defender to fly. The Defender equivalent of the Nemesis is the Wildcat, or if you're on a tighter budget have a look at the Tomcat website. But to build from a kit is a lot of work, there are some superbly built ones and a lot of dogs.

[100SRV]

C Lee Farquar said:

Whilst it's academic now, there are a few things that ring alarm bells. It's not 100% rust free, there is rust on the chassis. The paintjob doesn't appear to be much more than a blow over, the bulkhead hasn't been done. The brake pipes are old, which doesn't stack up for a decent conversion/renovation especially when a more powerful engine has been fitted. The wiring looks amateurish, in fact the whole job looks amateurish with one or two shiney bits. I'm confused, or more likely the seller is, by the TVR spaceframe bit. Having said that at under £5k it would probably be worth a punt if you had some more to throw at it.

As has been mentioned you need some serious grunt to get a Defender to fly. The Defender equivalent of the Nemesis is the Wildcat, or if you're on a tighter budget have a look at the Tomcat website. But to build from a kit is a lot of work, there are some superbly built ones and a lot of dogs.

+1
It is a tarts truck...

If you want a quick defender style vehicle you are better off with a Tomcat - a minimum of 300kg lost kerb weight is worth a lot more in all-round performance than trying to put a "big enough" engine into a defender. Also if you are fiddling with suspension avoid bling and ask yourself how the modifications would stand up to scrutiny in court if you were unlucky enough to end up there through involvement in an RTA.

[300bhp/ton]

kingstondc5 said:

@Buggles - Sorry fella, basically i like the idea of doing this sort of project but would rather just buy one pre-done

@300 - Basically id like a road going Nemesis (or in my mind what a Nemesis should do) but in a Defender body so bit street sleeper'esq. By the sounds of it, im probably best of buying a TD5 and modifying that for street use... Though alternately part of me just thinks about buying a 2nd hand Cayenne Turbo as it'll be quicker and more refined that what i planned on the landy doing for the same sort of costs.

Is it purely for road use? As the Nemesis (Range Rover Sport) and Wildcat (the Defender one) are built for cross country racing and rallying. Supreme bits of kit, hugely expensive and far from setup for road use.

Td5's are very capable and can be made brisk'ish with 200-230hp using hybrid turbo's and lots of tuning. They'll probably feel quicker than they are, yet still be quick enough to upset many cars.

If you want it to handle better on road you need to look at one road setups, so a 1-2" suspension drop, polybushes, uprated ARB's, maybe a tweaked steering box and convert to Disco 2 18" alloys and lower profile rubber.

All of this stuff is bolt on and you can do it bit by bit and keep the vehicle usable while doing it.

V8's will offer up more options. It's a fairly easy swap that most garages should be capable of doing.

a 4.0 litre should give a solid 200hp with was and maybe 230-240hp with some sensible upgrades. 4.6 litres or bigger will work better, potentially more PEAK hp but a much fatter torque curve and more power through the revs.

A custom turbo setup might be an idea if more grunt is still required. Although 250hp+ and you are likely to start running into gearbox issues and issues with the weak axles.

More power will involve an engine swap most likely such as a Chevy V8 or maybe even something like the Lexus LS400 motor.



Tomcats and Wildcats are great. But are a lot of work to build or are going to cost a lot to buy. And at the end of the day are designed for competition work not road use.


If you feel adventurous, there is another option.

This:



http://www.blitzworld.co.uk/sahara-4x4-jeep-road-l...





Basically find yourself a 3.9 manual V8 Discovery. Find a local mechanic.

Then you rip the body of the Disco (easy have done this myself). And new Sahara body fits over the chassis.

What you end up with is a 100" Defender looking 4x4. The longer wheelbase will actually make it more stable for high speed road use (it's what most of the racing Land Rover's use).

If you at the same time add on some -1" suspension (Famous Four sell some I think) with uprated anti-roll bars. JE Engineering do an uprated steering box then visit V8 Developments or Real Steal and add a silly high lift cam and some ported heads.

Add in a custom exhaust and with a revvy RV8 setup I'd also visits Ashcroft Transmissions or Kam Diffs and swap in some 4.10:1 diffs. Slap on some nice alloys and bingo! You'll have a unique, bad ass Land Rover that'll run rings round the one you where looking at.

[eliot]

Or a Dakar 4x4.

High 5 second performance out of mine thanks to a 5.7 turbo chevy.

[300bhp/ton]

eliot said:

Or a Dakar 4x4.

High 5 second performance out of mine thanks to a 5.7 turbo chevy.

Can you still buy Dakars new these days? I spoke to the guys some 5/6 years back at the Donnington kit car show, but not really looked since then.

[eliot]

300bhp/ton said:

Can you still buy Dakars new these days? I spoke to the guys some 5/6 years back at the Donnington kit car show, but not really looked since then.

I'm not sure to be honest. Barry Chantler handed the business over to Dakar Designs and conversions years ago. The owner Steve was sadly killed in an accident. His partner Tory was supposed to be carrying on the business. But the downturn hasn't helped matters either.
Best bet is to get a 2nd hand one. There are some very nice ones out there and some absolute dogs. With the Dogs you may be better off to drop it onto a new donor. Bodys come up really nice in two-pack paint. The gel coat is very thick on the early bodies (several mm) - and you can just sand it back when it gets scratched.

[task]

As part of the CSK (special edition 2 door Range Rover) rebuild I'm mid-way through I've gone for the -1" FF springs (along with red polybushes/stiff dampers), had them before on a 4-door RRC so I know how good they are.

I've lined up some 18" wheels that fit straight on to a classic/defender/disco1 hub without the need for adaptors too, although I do have a real hard-on for the hurricane alloys.

Hopefully with the few engine tweaks I've done it should be quite nice to drive.

[kingstondc5]

Hello all,

Thanks for the comments, its given me some food for thought and basically i dont think ill be able to achieve what i want on a 'shoe-string' budget (i.e. sub 10 to 60, interior of a rangie and able to 'handle' corners) and guess ill have to go back to the drawing board.

[300bhp/ton]

kingstondc5 said:

Hello all,

Thanks for the comments, its given me some food for thought and basically i dont think ill be able to achieve what i want on a 'shoe-string' budget (i.e. sub 10 to 60, interior of a rangie and able to 'handle' corners) and guess ill have to go back to the drawing board.

What sort of budget?

Personally I think there is a huge array of options, but you have to be willing to think outside the box a bit.

You could do this with a classic Range Rover, although Disco's are cheaper. If you used a D2 then you can get one with ACE on which will make it more level for hard road cornering.

(It's also remembering that the only real difference between a Defender and a Disco/Range Rover is the body that sits on top of the chassis. The chassis and running gear and largely similar or the same).








All of these will have a nice interior and the comfort of a RR/Disco. And if you use a V8 as a basis then you've got some easy tuning options. Personally I'd do head, cam, long tube exhaust manifolds, exhaust, 4.10:1 diffs and a 150 shot of nitrous for when you need it. Plus the suspension upgrades.

[eliot]

Nitrous on a road car is a waste of time IMO. Many insurers take a dim view and are you going to open the bottle's valve everytime you get in the car. Few quick squirts down the bypass and your £50 bottle of gas will be empty.
turbo/supercharger is what you need.

[task]

Sub 10 seconds to 60 in a RRC is going to be easy! The mods listed above should see that.

[kingstondc5]

Basically whatever i can sell my Integra for is what ill be putting towards the next vehicle so hopefully around 10k.

I think ill need to go back to the drawing board per se and have a think of things through as now tempted by a newish Jeep Wrangler. Would like a freelander 2 but budget wont stretch that far