Defender ..... adjustable / air suspension ?

[TISPKJ]

Hi Guys, I know at a price you can do anything but .... would it be possible to fit something like the adjustable suspension that was fitted to the old RR 4.2 LSE to a new defender 110 ?

I want to be able to lower and raise the suspension to suit different situations.

Any thoughts please

[Tinod]

I remember reading years ago about a guy that fitted adjustable (could have been air) suspension to his 90 pick up in one of the Land Rover owner magazines it looked pretty good will see if I can dig it out and scan it in.

[camel_landy]

IMO - There is little benefit to this as the clearance under the axles remain the same.

M

[TISPKJ]

camel_landy said:

IMO - There is little benefit to this as the clearance under the axles remain the same.

M

Yes you are correct but thinking the reverse to me, I want to lower the car so it will fit in my garage with rebuilding the garage.

I remember the old LSE had the ability to lower the car for the motorway (or when my nan got in)and then raise up again to normal road use, and I think a setting for off road as well.

Would the mounting points for the suspension be similar to the RR ?
Obviously would need the electrics / hydraulics as well.

Do Land Rover have an "Autobiography" department?

[camel_landy]

TISPKJ said:

camel_landy said:

IMO - There is little benefit to this as the clearance under the axles remain the same.

M

Yes you are correct but thinking the reverse to me, I want to lower the car so it will fit in my garage with rebuilding the garage.

I remember the old LSE had the ability to lower the car for the motorway (or when my nan got in)and then raise up again to normal road use, and I think a setting for off road as well.

Would the mounting points for the suspension be similar to the RR ?
Obviously would need the electrics / hydraulics as well.

Do Land Rover have an "Autobiography" department?

Errrr. OK!

LandRover have their "Special Vehicles" department where they build the one-off specials for customers.

M

[task]

Yes this is possible, with some work.

It would be best to buy a Range Rover classic with air suspension on it and harvest the parts from here.

It consists of;

A sensor on each corner between the chassis and the radius arms/trailing arms.
A compressor under the side of the car
Air tanks
Wiring loom
ECU
Dash switches
Isolator
Front shocker mounts are different and require a bracket on chassis and axle.

The EAS interfaces with a few things, it checks to see if the doors are open, it looks at engine speed and road speed.

The location and orientation of the ECU is important, you can use free software and a serial cable to interrogate the ECU.

Hope this helps.

[300bhp/ton]

camel_landy said:

IMO - There is little benefit to this as the clearance under the axles remain the same.

M

It's funny you should say that, as I'm sure it was you in another thread that said they like running 7.50 tyres.... Surely not the best option if under axle clearance is an issue.

That said... where's the harm in lifting the rest of the vehicle? It increases both the approach, departure and ram over angles. Increases wading depth and improves under the chassis clearance, which can be a place to get hung up on or beached.

[TISPKJ]

task said:

Yes this is possible, with some work.

It would be best to buy a Range Rover classic with air suspension on it and harvest the parts from here.

It consists of;

A sensor on each corner between the chassis and the radius arms/trailing arms.
A compressor under the side of the car
Air tanks
Wiring loom
ECU
Dash switches
Isolator
Front shocker mounts are different and require a bracket on chassis and axle.

The EAS interfaces with a few things, it checks to see if the doors are open, it looks at engine speed and road speed.

The location and orientation of the ECU is important, you can use free software and a serial cable to interrogate the ECU.

Hope this helps.

Thank you for the in depth reply.
Was the LSE the only model to offer air suspension ? and do any of the newer ie post LSE shape models offer this suspension package ?

A bit more background to the above, my dad loves his Defenders and currently has a new 90, I hate them but thats another story, car will be used back and forth to Geneva so 110 being a far better ride would be better suited however it will not go in any of our garages and would have to be left on the roadside.
we in the past had almost every incarnation of RR, Disco, and LR up until the LSE, then switched to numerous ML's and then a Cayenne, just picked up a new Evoque which on paper fits the bill perfectly but he just cant get on with its lack of visibility and its modern switchgear and reversing cameras and finds it dangerous, he also likes being able to see the 4 corners of the car when parking etc.
So I had this brainwave, why not a new 110 with the auto conversion, the LSE type suspension and some nice wheels and tyres.
Seems to tick all the boxes appart from being a bit bigger than we would like in an ideal world.
Auto I am told is a 3k conversion, if the suspension was similar money (and gave a similar ride to the RR) it could make a nice car.

[camel_landy]

TISPKJ said:

Thank you for the in depth reply.
Was the LSE the only model to offer air suspension ? and do any of the newer ie post LSE shape models offer this suspension package ?

A bit more background to the above, my dad loves his Defenders and currently has a new 90, I hate them but thats another story, car will be used back and forth to Geneva so 110 being a far better ride would be better suited however it will not go in any of our garages and would have to be left on the roadside.
we in the past had almost every incarnation of RR, Disco, and LR up until the LSE, then switched to numerous ML's and then a Cayenne, just picked up a new Evoque which on paper fits the bill perfectly but he just cant get on with its lack of visibility and its modern switchgear and reversing cameras and finds it dangerous, he also likes being able to see the 4 corners of the car when parking etc.
So I had this brainwave, why not a new 110 with the auto conversion, the LSE type suspension and some nice wheels and tyres.
Seems to tick all the boxes appart from being a bit bigger than we would like in an ideal world.
Auto I am told is a 3k conversion, if the suspension was similar money (and gave a similar ride to the RR) it could make a nice car.

Interesting idea.

It wasn't just the LSE, air suspension was standard on the VogueSE from '93 onwards (IIRC).

Have you had a look at a D4? You can see all 4x corners when manouvering and it'll be much more suited for the run to Geneva.

M

[camel_landy]

300bhp/ton said:

camel_landy said:

IMO - There is little benefit to this as the clearance under the axles remain the same.

M

It's funny you should say that, as I'm sure it was you in another thread that said they like running 7.50 tyres.... Surely not the best option if under axle clearance is an issue.

That said... where's the harm in lifting the rest of the vehicle? It increases both the approach, departure and ram over angles. Increases wading depth and improves under the chassis clearance, which can be a place to get hung up on or beached.

Clearance isn't an 'issue' for me...

There's no harm in lifting the rest of the vehicle but in my experience, when people get stuck, it is generally the axle/diff where they're getting hung up. Cost & Faff vs Benefit... The money would be better spent on getting some decent training.

M

[task]

A defender is not something well suited to long journeys really. Id the only aim here fitting in a garage or are we looking at improved ride comfort and manners?

As above, post 1993 Range Rover Classic and all LSE. The P38's had this setup too but it wouldn't be transferable to a defender so easily as they don't share the same chassis.

Having this work carried out to a new defender would push well into Range Rover Vouge costs, I had assumed you'd be carrying the work out yourself

Does it need to be a new car? If he enjoyed the LSE so much can you not find a Range Rover Classic in good shape for him?

[300bhp/ton]

camel_landy said:

Clearance isn't an 'issue' for me...

There's no harm in lifting the rest of the vehicle but in my experience, when people get stuck, it is generally the axle/diff where they're getting hung up. Cost & Faff vs Benefit... The money would be better spent on getting some decent training.

M

:cough: :cough:

[TISPKJ]

camel_landy said:

Interesting idea.

It wasn't just the LSE, air suspension was standard on the VogueSE from '93 onwards (IIRC).

Have you had a look at a D4? You can see all 4x corners when manouvering and it'll be much more suited for the run to Geneva.

M

D4 ..... I take it you mean the latest Discovery ?
At 76 he finds the cayenne just to big for general use, the Disco was a consideration as is the new RR, even the sport is a large car, he fancies one of the New Freelanders but to me it seems a bit dare I say it down market (sorry to offend anyone)and no way are they best part of 30k worth of kit.
I know a defender is a big old lump but somehow seems to not attract the similar ammount of car park abuse that the others suffer from.
We have used the 90 on the continent a fair bit and its not too bad to be honest on the motorway 110 a totally different car to ride in.

[TISPKJ]

task said:

A defender is not something well suited to long journeys really. Id the only aim here fitting in a garage or are we looking at improved ride comfort and manners?

As above, post 1993 Range Rover Classic and all LSE. The P38's had this setup too but it wouldn't be transferable to a defender so easily as they don't share the same chassis.

Having this work carried out to a new defender would push well into Range Rover Vouge costs, I had assumed you'd be carrying the work out yourself

Does it need to be a new car? If he enjoyed the LSE so much can you not find a Range Rover Classic in good shape for him?

Have used a 90 (TD5) for runs to Bordeaux and it's lets say ok ... ish
New 90 has been used a few times to Geneva and I am told "is not bad".
The new 6 speed box (is It)is much better on the motorway than the old box giving as expected higher gearing and better cruising ability.
New 110 is a much better riding car than a 90.
Its all just an idea, he has allways wanted an auto Defender, a 110 is of more use than a 90 but it wont fit in any of the garages, so I thought why not make one as we want it.
Cheapest option would be as said to buy an old one and swap over after refurbing all the shocks etc.
Yes I could / would possibly do that work myself
Doubt it will ever come to anything but really interesting to see what could be done, I was thinking someone must do a kit like they put on those silly dancing custom car things no ?
Does it have to be new ? dad is paranoid about breaking down "up in the mountains" and not being found till spring !! :-)

[camel_landy]

300bhp/ton said:

camel_landy said:

Clearance isn't an 'issue' for me...

There's no harm in lifting the rest of the vehicle but in my experience, when people get stuck, it is generally the axle/diff where they're getting hung up. Cost & Faff vs Benefit... The money would be better spent on getting some decent training.

M

:cough: :cough:

Did I say that it NEVER happens???

That's why I used the word "GENERALLY"...

...and even with a few extra mm of height, it's not going to make a huge difference.

M

[camel_landy]

TISPKJ said:

The new 6 speed box (is It)is much better on the motorway than the old box giving as expected higher gearing and better cruising ability.

The 'Puma' engined Defenders, with the 6spd boxes, are significantly better at cruising on the motorways/autoroutes. So much so, you can even have a conversation with the other passengers without having to shout!!!

M

[camel_landy]

300bhp/ton said:

:cough: :cough:

...and in both of those pictures, a little bit more speed would have seen them clear (i.e. training).

[300bhp/ton]

TISPKJ said:

D4 ..... I take it you mean the latest Discovery ?
At 76 he finds the cayenne just to big for general use, the Disco was a consideration as is the new RR, even the sport is a large car, he fancies one of the New Freelanders but to me it seems a bit dare I say it down market (sorry to offend anyone)and no way are they best part of 30k worth of kit.
I know a defender is a big old lump but somehow seems to not attract the similar ammount of car park abuse that the others suffer from.
We have used the 90 on the continent a fair bit and its not too bad to be honest on the motorway 110 a totally different car to ride in.

Personally I actually quite like a Defender to travel long distance in, I find them quite comfy.

With regards to air suspension. Yes I don't see that it should be all that difficult to achieve. A custom setup using p38a Range Rover bits would certainly be one option. And one I'd have thought many a local 4x4 specialist/mechanic could achieve without huge cost in R&D.

There are I'm sure aftermarket systems that you could probably adapt too, although you might need to trawl some US based sites to find out about them. Ultimately these are likely superior, but will involve far more custom work.

Likewise, I see no reason why you could also fab up a custom hydrolic suspension setup, even more advanced than an air one. But you will be forging your own path and will require a lot of custom work.


At the end of the day all you need for a simple air system is, 4 air bags/springs. Upper and lower seats for each, an air pump, tubing and some sort of user control/interface.

If it was totally up to the drive to select say low, normal, high ride height. Then this should be fairly simply to implement.

If you want an advanced speed sensing setup that will automatically raise and lower the car under different conditions, then it'll be far more involved with sensors and ECU's.

[300bhp/ton]

camel_landy said:

Did I say that it NEVER happens???

That's why I used the word "GENERALLY"...

...and even with a few extra mm of height, it's not going to make a huge difference.

M

lol, I know. Hence the smiley!

[TISPKJ]

300bhp/ton said:

Personally I actually quite like a Defender to travel long distance in, I find them quite comfy.

With regards to air suspension. Yes I don't see that it should be all that difficult to achieve. A custom setup using p38a Range Rover bits would certainly be one option. And one I'd have thought many a local 4x4 specialist/mechanic could achieve without huge cost in R&D.

There are I'm sure aftermarket systems that you could probably adapt too, although you might need to trawl some US based sites to find out about them. Ultimately these are likely superior, but will involve far more custom work.

Likewise, I see no reason why you could also fab up a custom hydrolic suspension setup, even more advanced than an air one. But you will be forging your own path and will require a lot of custom work.


At the end of the day all you need for a simple air system is, 4 air bags/springs. Upper and lower seats for each, an air pump, tubing and some sort of user control/interface.

If it was totally up to the drive to select say low, normal, high ride height. Then this should be fairly simply to implement.

If you want an advanced speed sensing setup that will automatically raise and lower the car under different conditions, then it'll be far more involved with sensors and ECU's.

Ok bits of RR history coming back to me now P38, that will be the shape after the classic LSE ie the one with the BMW straight 6 diesel in it ? think we had a couple in that shape but only remember the LSE having the fancy suspension which as you say adjusted itself at motorway speed automatically and parking I think.
was the P38 a more manual process ie just a switch on the dash for up and down or the same as the LSE shape.

I could of course just buy some low profile tyres :-)