Cracked heated windscreen - repair or replace?
Discussion
Hiya,
I've had my shiny new FFRR for all of 3 days, and it's already got a cracked windscreen.
Thing is, it's only a little crack where a stone has hit it - you can see how the crack is radiating out from the centre of the chip.
But the car has a heated windscreen - and I don't know the car well enough yet to know what the implications would be of opting for a repair over a replacement. I appreciate that the heater elements probably won't work in that part of the screen, but what are the chances of the entire heated screen not working?
The fitter I spoke to earlier today is coming round tomorrow and is keen to replace the screen. Which is no surprise.
But if he does, what are the implications? I know he's got to remember to reconnect the heater elements and the rain sensor - but what of the leather trim? I suppose he could damage that, couldn't he? (I well remember making a point of getting a really good fitter out to put a new windscreen in the Cerbera just after someone on here had their leather trim ruined by a windscreen fitter...)
Of course, there's no way of telling whether just a small bit of the screen will be affected, or all of it. So would it be best to go for a replacement? My instinct is telling me to go for the repair, because I can always replace the whole screen later if necessary. But then again, it would be nice to have a fully functional and unbroken windscreen.
So, any experiences, anecdotes?
Dammit, I had to have the windscreen replaced in my Volvo as soon as I bought it as well. But that was a much simpler job! I miss my Volvo.
I've had my shiny new FFRR for all of 3 days, and it's already got a cracked windscreen.
Thing is, it's only a little crack where a stone has hit it - you can see how the crack is radiating out from the centre of the chip.
But the car has a heated windscreen - and I don't know the car well enough yet to know what the implications would be of opting for a repair over a replacement. I appreciate that the heater elements probably won't work in that part of the screen, but what are the chances of the entire heated screen not working?
The fitter I spoke to earlier today is coming round tomorrow and is keen to replace the screen. Which is no surprise.
But if he does, what are the implications? I know he's got to remember to reconnect the heater elements and the rain sensor - but what of the leather trim? I suppose he could damage that, couldn't he? (I well remember making a point of getting a really good fitter out to put a new windscreen in the Cerbera just after someone on here had their leather trim ruined by a windscreen fitter...)Of course, there's no way of telling whether just a small bit of the screen will be affected, or all of it. So would it be best to go for a replacement? My instinct is telling me to go for the repair, because I can always replace the whole screen later if necessary. But then again, it would be nice to have a fully functional and unbroken windscreen.
So, any experiences, anecdotes?
Dammit, I had to have the windscreen replaced in my Volvo as soon as I bought it as well. But that was a much simpler job! I miss my Volvo.
The thing you need to check Sian is that if you have it repaired, then the heating elements do not work to your satisfaction, will your insurance still replace it?
If you go for the replacement can you send it to your local dealer to do it (or facilitate whoever the insurance use) so then at least they may have responsibility for the job being done correctly?
Alternatively, explain ever so politely to your fitter that someone once damaged your leather dash on a Cerbera and it cost their company over £1000 to have the dash removed and re-trimmed... as you are taking pictures of your pristine dash
If you go for the replacement can you send it to your local dealer to do it (or facilitate whoever the insurance use) so then at least they may have responsibility for the job being done correctly?
Alternatively, explain ever so politely to your fitter that someone once damaged your leather dash on a Cerbera and it cost their company over £1000 to have the dash removed and re-trimmed... as you are taking pictures of your pristine dash
SGirl said:
The fitter I spoke to earlier today is coming round tomorrow and is keen to replace the screen.
Which is no surprise. But if he does, what are the implications?
Implications as in how the claim could affect your premium on renewal? Or as in if it is repairable? I hope this is not a case of replacement = more money than a repair. Which is no surprise.
But if he does, what are the implications? The heater elements (sometimes called the 'buzz bar') is sandwiched between two layers of glass. There is also a PVB interlayer in there which is the laminating element of the construction.
Unless the stone has hit the screen hard enough to break through the outer layer of glass and pierce the interlayer, the chances are the buzz bar has not been damaged (very rare TBH). What you're probably seeing is a pocket of air and a small crack (or cracks/legs) behind the impact point. It can look a lot worse than it is.
Also, why is this guy keen to replace? Is the damage larger than say, a one pence piece? Is it in your direct (driving) vision?
Edited by Glassman on Thursday 31st May 23:11
Glassman said:
Implications as in how the claim could affect your premium on renewal? Or as in if it is repairable? I hope this is not case of replacement = more money than a repair.
As in "will the thing still work if I mess with it". Glassman said:
The heater elements (sometimes called the 'buzz bar') is sandwiched between two layers of glass. There is also a PVB interlayer in there which is the laminating element of the construction.
Unless the stone has hit the screen hard enough to break through the outer layer of glass and pierce the interlayer, the chances are the buzz bar has not been damaged (very rare TBH). Also, why is this guy keen to replace? Is the damage larger than say, a one pence piece? Is it in your direct (driving) vision?
Now that's what I wanted to hear - thanks! Unless the stone has hit the screen hard enough to break through the outer layer of glass and pierce the interlayer, the chances are the buzz bar has not been damaged (very rare TBH). Also, why is this guy keen to replace? Is the damage larger than say, a one pence piece? Is it in your direct (driving) vision?
It's a titchy little stone chip with a crack radiating out on either side of it. It's definitely not gone right through to the inside of the glass. I think the guy wants to replace the screen because he gets more money that way - the crack is less than the size of a 5p piece and it's right across on the passenger side, near the tax disc, so well out of my direct field of vision but unfortunately within the sweep of the wipers!A few other RR owners have said they've had windscreens repaired and that it's damaged the elements in that section of the screen - that's what I'm fussing about. I don't mind a bit of the screen not working, I can live with that. But I don't want the entire heated screen to fail - is that likely? Or possible?
burriana said:
The thing you need to check Sian is that if you have it repaired, then the heating elements do not work to your satisfaction, will your insurance still replace it?
Well, if it's cracked once, I'm sure it'll crack again eventually. 
burriana said:
If you go for the replacement can you send it to your local dealer to do it (or facilitate whoever the insurance use) so then at least they may have responsibility for the job being done correctly?
I think I'll ask the guy if he thinks it can be repaired. If he says not, I'll send him away and drive the car across to LR instead. That way, I won't invalidate the warranty on the car and my insurance will okay it because they charge £50 for a replacement screen if you go with their approved fitter or £100 for a non-approved one.burriana said:
Alternatively, explain ever so politely to your fitter that someone once damaged your leather dash on a Cerbera and it cost their company over £1000 to have the dash removed and re-trimmed... as you are taking pictures of your pristine dash
Which would be a fib. But hey - needs must! 
I'll post a pic in the morning, it's dark now. SGirl said:
A few other RR owners have said they've had windscreens repaired and that it's damaged the elements in that section of the screen - that's what I'm fussing about. I don't mind a bit of the screen not working, I can live with that. But I don't want the entire heated screen to fail - is that likely? Or possible?
No. Well, unlikely. There is no reason to disturb the heater elements; no part of repair process interferes with the glass that deep. Perhaps those who have had screens fail after repair have had a repairer drill too deep into the break, or that the impact itself was harder. Are you in Bucks? Happy to have a look at it for you, but:
SGirl said:
I think the guy wants to replace the screen because he gets more money
Is this what he said? Or was it him who has planted the seed of doubt about the screen potentially failing after repair? The rising cost of insurance; why risk a big footprint on your claims history because someone wants to milk the insco for a few quid more?
Thanks Paul, I owe you one. 
Of course, if he repairs it and the heating elements have all failed, then I'll just have to get a new one in winter.
Glassman said:
No. Well, unlikely. There is no reason to disturb the heater elements; no part of repair process interferes with the glass that deep. Perhaps those who have had screens fail after repair have had a repairer drill too deep into the break, or that the impact itself was harder.
I was wondering about that. But we'll see what happens - the repairer is on his way and I'll ask him to do a repair. Glassman said:
Are you in Bucks?
Almost - near Reading. I can drive over to Bucks if the repair isn't done this morning. Glassman said:
Is this what he said? Or was it him who has planted the seed of doubt about the screen potentially failing after repair?
He didn't say that in so many words, no. But he said he keeps RR heated windscreens in stock because it's "better" to replace than repair. Glassman said:
The rising cost of insurance; why risk a big footprint on your claims history because someone wants to milk the insco for a few quid more?
Very true. I've already made my mind up by this time (luckily!) - if he can repair it, then great. If he insists on a replacement, I'll ask him to leave it and I'll come back to you, if that's okay. Thanks for all your advice so far. Of course, if he repairs it and the heating elements have all failed, then I'll just have to get a new one in winter.
Fair enough. I took a guess on you being in Bucks (info via your profile).
Reading is no problem either. I'm based in North London / Herts area but have very long arms
Fingers crossed for a good repair. TBH, I don't like the sound of this guy if he's working the 'replacement is better' idea.
Reading is no problem either. I'm based in North London / Herts area but have very long arms
Fingers crossed for a good repair. TBH, I don't like the sound of this guy if he's working the 'replacement is better' idea.
Oh yes, sorry! I forgot to change the profile. We moved not long ago.
The repair is done now - at least, I saw it being done. It hasn't made a blind bit of difference to the appearance of the crack, it's still as obvious as when I first saw it.
The guys turned up with a windscreen and told me I'd have to pay my excess - I explained that I didn't want a replacement, I wanted a repair. They didn't have a problem with that - but then again, they weren't the guy who booked in the job either.
Heyho. So now I have a repaired but cracked windscreen. Bah. Is there anything I can do to improve the look of it, other than replace the screen?!
The repair is done now - at least, I saw it being done. It hasn't made a blind bit of difference to the appearance of the crack, it's still as obvious as when I first saw it.
The guys turned up with a windscreen and told me I'd have to pay my excess - I explained that I didn't want a replacement, I wanted a repair. They didn't have a problem with that - but then again, they weren't the guy who booked in the job either.
Heyho. So now I have a repaired but cracked windscreen. Bah. Is there anything I can do to improve the look of it, other than replace the screen?!
If it still looks the same it has not been repaired, simple as.
Whilst time is on on your side, raise the issue with your insurance company and reject what they've done (the before and after appearances are the same then it is perfectly legitimate and valid).
It may even be possible to re-repair their 'attempt', but it does come at a risk. The key thing here is:
- the repairer has done a cack job and should not be paid for it;
- the fact that he/they were leaning towards a replacement suggests that the poor repair may even be deliberate?
- as a consumer, why should you accept inferior/sub standard workmanship, regardless of whether or not you paid for it? (it's your car!).
A repairer would have made an assessment before attempting the repair, so if he started it he must have felt it was doable, ergo: the appearance of the damage would be discernible before and after.
(I'm sorry you're now in the position btw)
Whilst time is on on your side, raise the issue with your insurance company and reject what they've done (the before and after appearances are the same then it is perfectly legitimate and valid).
It may even be possible to re-repair their 'attempt', but it does come at a risk. The key thing here is:
- the repairer has done a cack job and should not be paid for it;
- the fact that he/they were leaning towards a replacement suggests that the poor repair may even be deliberate?
- as a consumer, why should you accept inferior/sub standard workmanship, regardless of whether or not you paid for it? (it's your car!).
A repairer would have made an assessment before attempting the repair, so if he started it he must have felt it was doable, ergo: the appearance of the damage would be discernible before and after.
(I'm sorry you're now in the position btw)
Edited by Glassman on Friday 1st June 21:02
No, I'm sure it wasn't deliberate. The lads doing the repair had no vested interest in selling me a replacement screen, they were just doing what their boss had told them to do. Their opinion of the crack was that "it must've been there a while if it hasn't cleaned it up at least a bit". But as far as I could see a couple of hours ago, it looked exactly the same as before except for a couple of marks at either end of the crack. Maybe it'll have got better as the repair has set or something?? I don't know, I'll have a look in a bit.
I suppose it's a 4x4 and it's likely to suffer a lot more from that kind of thing! Although the lads did reckon the car was still on its original windscreen, which might mean the car hasn't been offroaded too enthusiastically, I suppose?!
I'll check the crack out again in about an hour and report back. Still time to chase the insurance then.
ETA: There's a thought. While he was doing the job, he put a small glass mirror thing on the inside of the screen, but it fell off during the repair (the round suckery things were on the outside of the screen) and no. 2 bloke picked it up and held it onto the inside of the glass. Could that be why the crack looks exactly the same now??
I suppose it's a 4x4 and it's likely to suffer a lot more from that kind of thing! Although the lads did reckon the car was still on its original windscreen, which might mean the car hasn't been offroaded too enthusiastically, I suppose?!
I'll check the crack out again in about an hour and report back. Still time to chase the insurance then.
ETA: There's a thought. While he was doing the job, he put a small glass mirror thing on the inside of the screen, but it fell off during the repair (the round suckery things were on the outside of the screen) and no. 2 bloke picked it up and held it onto the inside of the glass. Could that be why the crack looks exactly the same now??
Edited by SGirl on Friday 1st June 11:55
SGirl said:
The repair is done now - at least, I saw it being done. It hasn't made a blind bit of difference to the appearance of the crack, it's still as obvious as when I first saw it.
Is there anything I can do to improve the look of it, other than replace the screen?!
If it looks just the same then it is likely that the resin has not penetrated the break and they should have worked on it until the job was done properly.Is there anything I can do to improve the look of it, other than replace the screen?!
However it may be possible to do it again properly if they havent made too much of a mess of it. It would be helpful to see a pic of it after the attempt and also to know who did it so we can deduce what kit was used. You are welcome to PM me if you want to arrange an inspection and possible re repair. This weekend would be fine.
The mirror episode doesnt have anything to do with the end result, it just allows the technician to see what is going on with the break when the injector nozzle is over the impact hole.
It is interesting to note that despite you telling them it was a chip and that you wanted it repaired that they still turned up with a screen and wanted to pressure you into having it fitted before even attempting to repair it. I find this outrageous. I am sure the insurance company would take a dim view of these tactics if they knew about it.
Had to laugh about the two blokes that came to do it.
how many Gavins does it take to fix a screen?!
Edited by zap mc on Saturday 2nd June 08:55
Edited by zap mc on Saturday 2nd June 09:00
Well, I did wonder about the lack of evidence of any repair, despite the fact I saw them do it and I saw the screen being cleaned up afterwards! (I wasn't checking up on them, we were talking fast cars while they worked. ) Here's a pic of the screen after the repair - sorry it's not a good pic, but it was damp and I'd left my real camera indoors!
The only difference between before and after is that I now can't feel the crack when I run my nail over it - before it was very obvious, now it's smooth. Does this mean it's too late to get it done properly? They actually said that the reason the crack hasn't disappeared is because the crack must have been there a long time - which is odd, considering the car underwent a PDI less than a week before!
To be fair, I asked them to bring the screen with them in case it turned out to be unrepairable. They did everything by the book. They warned me there'd be a £50 excess, I said there wouldn't because I wanted it repaired if possible, not replaced (especially since the weather was a bit so-so yesterday and the RR doesn't fit in my garage). The bloke said a repair was fine, as long as I signed his paperwork to say I'd requested a repair instead of the replacement. There was a hint of "on your own head be it" about it, but that doesn't bother me. It's a common tactic when garage staff think a girlie knows nowt about cars.
I also wondered why two of them turned out. It seems one was to do the repair and the other was to go round the car and mark up every single mark on the thing "for their records", in case they damaged it while they were working. I've never seen anything like it! He went round and pointed out every single tiny little mark on the car, including bird poo and specks which "might be insects but might be chips in the paintwork". It was all very cheery, but I had to tell him to stop in the end because it took ages and I was getting cross at him pointing out every tiny little imperfection in my shiny paintwork!!
Anyway, I'll drop you a line now and we can continue on mail. Thanks for all your help.
) Here's a pic of the screen after the repair - sorry it's not a good pic, but it was damp and I'd left my real camera indoors!The only difference between before and after is that I now can't feel the crack when I run my nail over it - before it was very obvious, now it's smooth. Does this mean it's too late to get it done properly? They actually said that the reason the crack hasn't disappeared is because the crack must have been there a long time - which is odd, considering the car underwent a PDI less than a week before!
To be fair, I asked them to bring the screen with them in case it turned out to be unrepairable. They did everything by the book. They warned me there'd be a £50 excess, I said there wouldn't because I wanted it repaired if possible, not replaced (especially since the weather was a bit so-so yesterday and the RR doesn't fit in my garage). The bloke said a repair was fine, as long as I signed his paperwork to say I'd requested a repair instead of the replacement. There was a hint of "on your own head be it" about it, but that doesn't bother me. It's a common tactic when garage staff think a girlie knows nowt about cars.
I also wondered why two of them turned out. It seems one was to do the repair and the other was to go round the car and mark up every single mark on the thing "for their records", in case they damaged it while they were working. I've never seen anything like it! He went round and pointed out every single tiny little mark on the car, including bird poo and specks which "might be insects but might be chips in the paintwork". It was all very cheery, but I had to tell him to stop in the end because it took ages and I was getting cross at him pointing out every tiny little imperfection in my shiny paintwork!!
Anyway, I'll drop you a line now and we can continue on mail. Thanks for all your help.
Ah! The familiar language of the untrained and careless technician. They're good at coming out with bulls
t and such distracting excuses.
The damage now feels smooth because they've 'sealed' and filled the impact point. What they haven't done is 'filled' the break below it before doing so.
IMHO, your insurer should notbe paying for this. This sort of deception has been happening for years and most people have come to accept an attempted repair rather than a properly filled one. The net result is that the insco will at first pay for the inferior repair then, pay for a replacement screen as a result of that failure (sooner or later).
Time served industry professionals who have been not only repairing screens for a quarter of a century, but have researched the subject scientifically, have been pushed aside by the insurer + preferred supplier relationship. I work very closely two independent guys who, between them, share over 50 years of repair-only experience. They have studied the science of glass repair and have even been noted for their expertise. Sadly, their proven methods are still not implemented by nationally operated repairers who seem to prefer 'other' equipment suppliers who, in the name of BSI and H&S give each other high fives as they impress insurance companies with their compliance; the quality aspects however, are evident as Sian's photo clearly shows.
The public need to be educated on the difference between an attempted repair and an acceptable one. Inscos are not interested and you have to ask why...
t and such distracting excuses. The damage now feels smooth because they've 'sealed' and filled the impact point. What they haven't done is 'filled' the break below it before doing so.
IMHO, your insurer should notbe paying for this. This sort of deception has been happening for years and most people have come to accept an attempted repair rather than a properly filled one. The net result is that the insco will at first pay for the inferior repair then, pay for a replacement screen as a result of that failure (sooner or later).
Time served industry professionals who have been not only repairing screens for a quarter of a century, but have researched the subject scientifically, have been pushed aside by the insurer + preferred supplier relationship. I work very closely two independent guys who, between them, share over 50 years of repair-only experience. They have studied the science of glass repair and have even been noted for their expertise. Sadly, their proven methods are still not implemented by nationally operated repairers who seem to prefer 'other' equipment suppliers who, in the name of BSI and H&S give each other high fives as they impress insurance companies with their compliance; the quality aspects however, are evident as Sian's photo clearly shows.
The public need to be educated on the difference between an attempted repair and an acceptable one. Inscos are not interested and you have to ask why...
Edited by Glassman on Saturday 2nd June 11:53
Unfortunately i cant actually see the damage from the picture ( is it the double silver flash in the middle?) as the camera has focussed through the glass rather than on it which is quite normal unless you know how to fool it.
Tip: when trying to take a picture of a chip on a screen if you can see that the camera is focussing past the chip and on the the road or the sky which is through the screen then just put your finger or something next to the chip that it can focus on so that it will get the chip in the shot as well.
Tip: when trying to take a picture of a chip on a screen if you can see that the camera is focussing past the chip and on the the road or the sky which is through the screen then just put your finger or something next to the chip that it can focus on so that it will get the chip in the shot as well.
Edited by zap mc on Saturday 2nd June 11:53
Gassing Station | Land Rover | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff