2003 Freelander TD4 head gasket / turbo issue

[flanagaj]

Hi,

My Wife's 2003 TD4 is burning oil and water at a rapid rate. The garage say that the amount of smoke and the fact it was most likely being used with no oil means as well as the head gasket, the turbo is most likely knackered as well and they recommend another engine.

They have said that the BMW TD4 engines used from 2003 - 2005 are renowned for head gasket problems.

What I am trying to understand is whether the garage are correct in their statement and whether a later engine 2006+ will fit straight into a 2003 TD4?

Any pointers welcomed.

Thanks

[camel_landy]

The later car (2006+) is completely different. Different engine, drive train, body shell, etc... So, 'No', the later engine will not fit.

The TD4 is generally very reliable (it was the 1.8 petrol that had the problems) but it does need to be serviced properly. However, if yours is using oil & water, it is sounding like head gasket problems!

Get it along to a specialist ASAP and get them to have a look.

M

[flanagaj]

camel_landy said:

The later car (2006+) is completely different. Different engine, drive train, body shell, etc... So, 'No', the later engine will not fit.

The TD4 is generally very reliable (it was the 1.8 petrol that had the problems) but it does need to be serviced properly. However, if yours is using oil & water, it is sounding like head gasket problems!

Get it along to a specialist ASAP and get them to have a look.

M

Many thanks for confirming that the later engine will not fit. As to regular servicing, we only have ourselves to blame on that one!

Is there a definitive way of deducing whether the head gasket and turbo have gone. The garage we use tend to be a bit wooley and don't seem to provide any concrete proof that the engine is beyond repair.

Thanks

[camel_landy]

flanagaj said:

Is there a definitive way of deducing whether the head gasket and turbo have gone.

It's difficult without inspection and having a bit more history... Do you have another garage which could give a 2nd opinion?

M

[pikeyboy]

Can't a garage do a leak down test to check for head gasket issues. and Try taking the inlet/outlet to the turbo off and check for play in the spindle and or oil in the outlet from turbo to intake.

[flanagaj]

Seems that it is not that straight forward to be fully sure, without having to resort to taking bits off the vehicle.

If I do source a replacement engine and turbo, what can I expect to pay to have it fitted?

[camel_landy]

flanagaj said:

Seems that it is not that straight forward to be fully sure, without having to resort to taking bits off the vehicle.

If I do source a replacement engine and turbo, what can I expect to pay to have it fitted?

Again, there are a number of variables. Hourly rate, engine only, engine & gearbox, etc... I say that as it might almost be cheaper replacing the entire engine & gearbox in one as you can just drop the whole lot out in one go.

M

[A.J.M]

As an owner of an 04 td4, this is the first time ive ever heard of them having head gasket issues with model years.

I would take it to an indy and get them to look at it, as a blown head and a blown turbo seems unlikely.
What's the mileage and service history, you have changed the crankcase filter as well, as if they are not changed then they can cause turbo issues.

Have heard of a td4 head gasket failure but it's not a common issue like the K series engine.

[flanagaj]

A.J.M said:

As an owner of an 04 td4, this is the first time ive ever heard of them having head gasket issues with model years.

I would take it to an indy and get them to look at it, as a blown head and a blown turbo seems unlikely.
What's the mileage and service history, you have changed the crankcase filter as well, as if they are not changed then they can cause turbo issues.

Have heard of a td4 head gasket failure but it's not a common issue like the K series engine.

Funny you should say that, but when my Wife rang the Landrover dealer today, the Lady there said that she had only once ever heard of a head gasket going on a TD4. She said it could be the 'breather'?

That would cost £150 to replace, but she could not guarantee that it would solve the problem. If I shell out money I want to be assured that it will fix the problem. Not maybe.

One final question. If the breather was blocked would that cause it to burn oil?

[camel_landy]

flanagaj said:

That would cost £150 to replace, but she could not guarantee that it would solve the problem. If I shell out money I want to be assured that it will fix the problem. Not maybe.

Oh come on, give them a chance! Are you really expecting them to fully diagnose the problem over the phone??!!?? Until they get the car in bits, they can never be 100% sure as to the problem... They can have a decent educated guess but you need to be prepared for other problems to be found along the way.

As for the breather, it is not uncommon for this to be missed when being serviced. Your main dealer or specialist that knows the BMW engine will know that it needs changing but if it is being serviced at A.N.Other indie, then chances are that it will be missed.

When it gets blocked, all sorts of strange things can happen but the main ones are oil being forced out of the dip-stick and oil starvation to the turbo... Leading to failure!!!

Take it to the main dealer and get them to sort it. They know the engine and it will take as much of the guess work out of it as possible... There's a reason why their labour rates are more and it's not just to pay for the posh surroundings...

M

[flanagaj]

camel_landy said:

Oh come on, give them a chance! Are you really expecting them to fully diagnose the problem over the phone??!!?? Until they get the car in bits, they can never be 100% sure as to the problem... They can have a decent educated guess but you need to be prepared for other problems to be found along the way.

As for the breather, it is not uncommon for this to be missed when being serviced. Your main dealer or specialist that knows the BMW engine will know that it needs changing but if it is being serviced at A.N.Other indie, then chances are that it will be missed.

When it gets blocked, all sorts of strange things can happen but the main ones are oil being forced out of the dip-stick and oil starvation to the turbo... Leading to failure!!!

Take it to the main dealer and get them to sort it. They know the engine and it will take as much of the guess work out of it as possible... There's a reason why their labour rates are more and it's not just to pay for the posh surroundings...

M

Ok point taken. We are just reluctant to keep throwing good money after bad, if it is well and truly buggered.

[flanagaj]

Having spoken to the Wife again this morning she says that TD4 has lost power and that she struggles to get up some hills. This to me sounds like the turbo has definately blown.

So it looks like the blocked crank case breather which has not been replaced for 5 years has buggered the turbo.

Now the final question I have is whether it is worth me investigating fitting the replacement turbo myself, or whether this is a big job that is better tackled by a garage.

I have limited tools to hand, but can follow a manual very well.

Thanks


Justin

[camel_landy]

Have a Google and see if you can find a .PDF version of the workshop manual. Have a read through the relevant section and see if you're up for it.

M

[A.J.M]

How long have you owned the freeby, as 5 years and not changing the filter does seem bad, were you using an indy or just a standard garage?

I would still take it to an indy, they will know for sure what's up with it, oh and get it serviced fully while there.

Did the car smoke lots when under power as a blown turbo would cause a decent smoke screen, also have you checked the engine hoses as with time they perish and split, you have blanked the EGR valve as well havent you?