Defender in French Alps

[MaverickV12]

Recently took the family on a trip to the French Alp resort of D'Huez for some winter sports, have a large family so driving is the natural form of transport, not to mention that I needed the space for a lot of equipment and bulky clothes, not to mention food. Had to make a few changes in the beginning, first a set of snow tyres were important ....



I also took some chains and a nice sized battery starter, I didn't need the chains (or use them) or indeed the starter, but far better to have them and not use them, rather than need them and not have them.....



Storage was an important issue, with the Defender full of people, we needed a lot of space, so we added a top box....



It was a Thule 900 motion, it was the biggest one that I could find, and didn't look too bad on the Defender....



Add that to a Thule bike rack (but not a bike rack) .....



..... and I ended up with quite a lot of storage room. Another extra that the Defender had, was absolutely critical with the kids involved ...... they needed chargers for the iPods and games machines ...... I mean..... who wants to look at mountains when they can watch Youtube .....



This photo is at the bottom of the Alps, in Grenoble, it was actually about +12C, which made us wonder if our winter tyre selection was even relevent....



The top box was rammed full as was the rear rack....



However after climbing 1800 metres up into the Alps, our choice of tyre was justified...



Snow was quite constant and most days it came down, the French tend to fight the snow quite a lot, so it gets cleared all the time ...





The Defender also had the space to hold everyones Skies, this is important, I would not like to be doing this in some domestic car, as the gear is quite rough, there is a lot of it, and you need a vehicle with waterproof covers, rubber mats and not too worried about throwing stuff into it....



Interestingly enough the Defender was as sure footed as a Mountain Goat, it never missed a heart beat, it also attracted the attention of the French, as there were very few of them out there and D'huez is quite big as resorts go. Not all the French liked it though, drawn onto the side of the car was some obsenity about us, "English", ...... ignoring that, the Defender was perfect to take on such a holiday, it was surefooted, reliable, had a tonne of space (after modifications), looked the part, was robust enough to be used everyday......

....... not forgetting ..... I felt as proud as can be, to be the driver of an, "English Defender", .......

I recon Defenders are bril ..........

[2 5HAN]

Excellent trip by the looks of it.
The Defender looks at home on the road and in the snow.
What seats have you got? How were they over a long journey?

[a4ash]

any ideas what your overall mpg was over the trip? I often drive from cumbria to chamonix and have been considering a defender tdci 110

[foliedouce]

Great trip, thanks for writing it up.

How was the comfort factor on a trip that long in a Defender?

[MaverickV12]

2 5HAN said:

What seats have you got? How were they over a long journey?

I made a few changes to the seats to make it more comfy for me.... I think I posted this in another thread, but its quite simple, I raised the seat by 75mm .....



I also changed the steering wheel for a smaller one.....



I have the part leather seats, they are supposed to be the best standard ones Defenders have (Other than SVX etc), although I have never seen the leather as the water proof covers went on the day I bought it, with the higher seat and the smaller wheel, I can sit for hours and its comfy.

This drive was really rather long, because of the top box, speed was difficult but it was not just that, we had that terrible weather, so in England from the South West to Dover we did about 50mph max, and then had to sit in the car for 90 minutes waiting to be loaded. Then France also had wind, so speed was again restricted to about 50mph, only from central France could I pick up speed.

Google Maps said about 12 hours driving, i knew about the wind issue and the ferry disruption, so left early, with all the delays, it took 22 hours (21 hours if you take off the 1 hour time difference)

So it was quite a ride, personally - I loved it - the kids couldn;t give a damn because they had hours and hours of iPods which they are not allowed at home The homeward journey was radically different and took 12 hours.

Obvioulsy the speed limit in France is 81mph, and I obviously never exceeded that speed limit by 1 mph ....... ........ however if you were you so inclined, I can, "guess", that the Defender can hit 90mph with the huge top box on and hold that speed all day. I obviously would not do that .....

So my seats with the modifications were really comfy, and I never had a problem at all, I am planning a Norway trip shortly, and have every confidence in the comfyness of the seats.

Turning to the fuel consumption...... I'm running a 2.2 Puma, I was weighing in at what must be the full 3.5 tonnes. I had 2 adults, 4 children, the top box was carrying 75kg, and the rear rack was probably carrying about 100kg, and some stuff inside. I can normally stand on the tyre and get access to the roof, but fully laden, I could not get my feet in. So I'm guessing the car was weighing in at 3500kg.

I am not sure about MPG ..... sorry ..... all I can say is that the car when at 50 mph hardly used any diesel at all .... and at 195 miles to Dover, only used about a third of a tank ..... stunning. Across France, I filled up at Dover and then, half a tank in central France and a full tank at Grenoble..... again stunningly good.

When I was hitting the national speed limit on the way home, that was significantly different. I would not say that it was double the amount of fuel, but I would also say its not far off .......

Because of the shape of one of my most favourite cars, it being a perfect brick shaped, then speed has a significant impact on the consumption. Not to forget the fuel tank is the size of a pea......

[MaverickV12]

foliedouce said:

How was the comfort factor on a trip that long in a Defender?

Because of the modifications to the seats and the steering wheel, for me the comfy factor was fine, and in fact is actually quite a nice position, as a normal car is lower and your legs are straight, this is far more van like and you are sat upright.

For me, the 22 hours was fine, and I have the odd sleep in it, put one leg up on the hand brake and I was fast asleep.

Comfy wise, I feel its fine, done it before and am planning to do it again ......

Speed wise is frustrating, could do with more midrange speed, when something pulls in front of you, you have to wait to build up speed again.

But lets be honest ...... my wifes Voyager is more comfy and faster, but hey ..... its not the ultimate off roader, and I doubt if French Nationals would stop to look at the Voyager......

[foliedouce]

MaverickV12 said:

Because of the modifications to the seats and the steering wheel, for me the comfy factor was fine, and in fact is actually quite a nice position, as a normal car is lower and your legs are straight, this is far more van like and you are sat upright.

For me, the 22 hours was fine, and I have the odd sleep in it, put one leg up on the hand brake and I was fast asleep.

Comfy wise, I feel its fine, done it before and am planning to do it again ......

Speed wise is frustrating, could do with more midrange speed, when something pulls in front of you, you have to wait to build up speed again.

But lets be honest ...... my wifes Voyager is more comfy and faster, but hey ..... its not the ultimate off roader, and I doubt if French Nationals would stop to look at the Voyager......

Thanks - have you thought about a remap? I've looked at an extra 40bhp which is supposed to give a little bit of extra mid range without stressing the engine (so that say!)

http://www.tunemydefender.com/component/zoo/item/s...

What tyres did you use? From a distance, they look like an off road tyre rather than a winter tyre. Their performance obviously worked though. Did you drive over any compacted ice? I'm looking at different tyres at the moment and keen to get feedback from real world experience.

Thanks

[897sma]

Just got back from a similar trip in a Disco. La Clussaz (via Bruges & Beaune) and then on to Morzine. Roof box and fully loaded too returned about 24.8mpg. Similar conditions with the snow but we were on half worn summer tyres, kept meaning to swap them but never got round to it. No problems at all on snowy roads although a little tooing & frowing to get over the hump left by the plough in a car park. We planned to buy some snow chains en-route in France but couldn't find anywhere that sold them in a big enough size so went without. The drive was 8 hours in total from Morzine to Calais, although we could've done it in one go we stopped off to enjoy the journey.

Edited by 897sma on Tuesday 25th February 15:52

Edited by 897sma on Tuesday 25th February 15:53

[jep]

Nice trip,

I did pretty much the same, but in July for the Tour de France. We averaged 23.14mpg in my D3, 5-up with roof bag, 2 bikes on the back, and a driver who didn't spare the horses on the return!




Just a little jealous of your twin 3-pin sockets though!

[vcm]

did similar trip a few years back, six people on board, and you're right, planning overtakes is a problem. fortunately i had re-mapped with je engineering to 180bhp i think. makes a massive difference on hills and overtaking (almost like a small car!)and didn't/doesn't affect mpg at usual speeds. well worth it.

[camel_landy]

jep said:

Nice trip,

I did pretty much the same, but in July for the Tour de France. We averaged 23.14mpg in my D3, 5-up with roof bag, 2 bikes on the back, and a driver who didn't spare the horses on the return!




Just a little jealous of your twin 3-pin sockets though!

IIRC I was getting 24-25 out of my fully loaded TDV8 RRS, roof box, winters & 130kph. On the first bit of the run, from Morzine to Thonon, I was getting 50-60 but then it is downhill all the way.

M

[MaverickV12]

foliedouce said:

What tyres did you use?

Khumo KC11 .....



http://www.mytyres.co.uk/cgi-bin/rshop.pl?dsco=110...

They are generaly nicer than the MT's that I normally run, stunning in the snow, like a mountin goat fresh snow was easy, compacted ice was damned good too..... I went to D'Huez and its quite car friendly with lots of car parks so we ran the car all over the resort, not high mileage by any standards, but all snow and ice and hills. I can't rate the KC11 high enough, and not forgetting that I was running something like 32psi and 48psi at the rear, and I didn't lower the pressure for the snow. The thought of getting the chains out, never even entered my head, not even lowering my pressures.

OK, I was not racing, but the things didn't even slip. Hills all over the place..... but took on quite a steep hill in the dead of night, went down to find that because they had not cleared the snow, they closed the road off ..... why would you close the road off ONLY at the bottom? No stress at all I just reversed back up what I had just driven on, didn't even hint at slipping, yet alone losing traction ......

When leaving the resort, about 05.00 a.m. was going down that beautiful windy road, no snow clearance at all 3 cars stuck coming up, whilst we went down. One being a nice new 4x4 Audi, what looked like to be running on summers ......... but to be fair, it was more icy than snowy at the lower levels, and I think this caught the summers out.... they didn't make it to the snow.... does that make sense?

[MaverickV12]

vcm said:

I can see me doing that in the not too distant future, I have 4 kids, but will need to be doing reserach as to where we can ride, would rather do the down hill stuff as opposed to trying to cycle up the mountain

With the bikes on the top, it must have dramatically effected your already brick-like wind resistance, I can see the need for the 180bhp, was fuel economy ok?

Not just that, what was the Defender running like at 130kph with an, "unusual", load on the top, I can see its not too much weight, but at 130kph, how did it feel....?

[foliedouce]

MaverickV12 said:

Khumo KC11 .....



http://www.mytyres.co.uk/cgi-bin/rshop.pl?dsco=110...

They are generaly nicer than the MT's that I normally run, stunning in the snow, like a mountin goat fresh snow was easy, compacted ice was damned good too..... I went to D'Huez and its quite car friendly with lots of car parks so we ran the car all over the resort, not high mileage by any standards, but all snow and ice and hills. I can't rate the KC11 high enough, and not forgetting that I was running something like 32psi and 48psi at the rear, and I didn't lower the pressure for the snow. The thought of getting the chains out, never even entered my head, not even lowering my pressures.

OK, I was not racing, but the things didn't even slip. Hills all over the place..... but took on quite a steep hill in the dead of night, went down to find that because they had not cleared the snow, they closed the road off ..... why would you close the road off ONLY at the bottom? No stress at all I just reversed back up what I had just driven on, didn't even hint at slipping, yet alone losing traction ......

When leaving the resort, about 05.00 a.m. was going down that beautiful windy road, no snow clearance at all 3 cars stuck coming up, whilst we went down. One being a nice new 4x4 Audi, what looked like to be running on summers ......... but to be fair, it was more icy than snowy at the lower levels, and I think this caught the summers out.... they didn't make it to the snow.... does that make sense?

Thanks. look good and cheap too! Are you leaving them on all year round or will take them off?

Final question - how was the skiing??? Very jealous!

[vcm]

I can see me doing that in the not too distant future, I have 4 kids, but will need to be doing reserach as to where we can ride, would rather do the down hill stuff as opposed to trying to cycle up the mountain - WE WENT TO MORZINE/LES GETS AREA IN THE SUMMER, MY SON AND HIS MATES,ALL 'HARDENED'DOWN-HILLERS- GET A SKI-LIFT PASS FOR YOU + BIKE, AND YOUR UP AND DOWN ALL DAY,WITH MINIMUM EFFORT...

With the bikes on the top, it must have dramatically effected your already brick-like wind resistance, I can see the need for the 180bhp, was fuel economy ok? - YES IT DID AFFECT IT, BUT FROM MEMORY I STILL THINK WE WERE NEARER 25MPG RATHER THAN 20.BUT THIS WOULD BE AT +/-70MPH. PRESS THE GO BUTTON TO 80-85, AND THE FUEL DISAPPEARS AT A MUCH QUICKER RATE.(FOR COMPARISON, IF I DRIVE NORTHAMPTON TO TORQUAY AT 70ISH, THE GUAGE SAYS HALF A TANK USED, IF I GUN IT ALL THE WAY,TO SAVE HALF AN HOUR!, I RUN OUT OF FUEL BY EXETER, USED TO BE SAME IN MY 90, NON-MAPPED)

Not just that, what was the Defender running like at 130kph with an, "unusual", load on the top, I can see its not too much weight, but at 130kph, how did it feel....?- FIRST ROUNDABOUT TOLD ME EVERYTHING, IT WOULDN'T STOP + AND IT FANCIED PRACTICING MAX LEAN ANGLES.... AFTER THAT LESSON, IT WAS HUNKY-DORY. THE WEIGHT ON TOP, AND INSIDE, WAS PROBABLY A BIT MUCH, BUT ON NORMAL ROADS,i.e. A STRAIGHT LINE, IT FELT FINE, JUST ANTICIPATE & ADAPT FOR BENDS AND BRAKING.

AND ONCE THERE, THE STORAGE TUBE AT THE BACK WOULD BE EMPTIED OF ALL RIDING/REPAR KIT, BIKES OFF, FRAME FOLDS FLAT.... ALMOST A NORMAL DEFENDER FOR NORMAL USE.

[MaverickV12]

foliedouce said:

Thanks. look good and cheap too! Are you leaving them on all year round or will take them off?

Final question - how was the skiing??? Very jealous!

Khumo MT's are what I run all the time, so I take my KC11's off as soon as they are home, so I save them for snowy road trips.....

http://www.mytyres.co.uk/cgi-bin/rshop.pl?dsco=110...

....and the skiing ....... was ducking stunning ..... I'd post a photo, but its a car forum, so lets stick to tyres and engines

VCM..... thanks for info, all taken on board, will look into it for this summer, my kids are a bit young so will have to be a, "green run", if you know what I mean ski wise .....

[MaverickV12]

Only a few weeks later and the need for snow tyres was ..... well ..... just not needed .....



This is the closest we got to ice at Mont Blanc .... and quite frankly, a set of summers would have sufficed really easily, snow tyres were just not needed ....



Even Les Deux Alpes was snow free ....



..... beautiful run from Grenoble to Mont Blanc, there was a road closure and it meant we had to run through the mountains, twisting winding roads, Defender or not, it was brilliant, no more winter tyres until Christmas now .....

[ArrowSC]

Brave man.
I've taken my family to Alpe D'Huez area for the last few seasons. First time was in our TD5 Defender 110, the rest in the Discovery 3 we upgraded to as a result of that first trip. I loved the Defender for everything but long journeys. Although we still overnight somewhere past Lyon on way down to allow Sat am arrival at resort, in the D3 the return trip is easy in one hit.

[MaverickV12]

ArrowSC said:

I loved the Defender for everything but long journeys

I know what you mean, but I think that I am strating to get used to it. I tend to rest the day before leaving and try and sleep a bit in the afternoon. Then with the car fully loaded, I wait for the kids to come home from school, they quickly change then we, "turn key", about 17:00, that gives 3.5 hours for Dover, 1 hour waiting, 90 minutes crossing, so I can be in Calais about 00:00 with a full tank of diesel and large cup of Americano, then drive through the night...... hit the coffee every now and then, snoozing every now and then and then Alpes about Lunch time

During school holidays, its quite funny because all the Frech rest stops are full of English cars all doing the same thing.

Family asleep in the car (taken in Voyager)



Arrive in resort, wife sorts kids out with stuff and the kids are big enough to carry the luggage now. I speel for a couple of hours. Next day is skiing.....

Seems to work well for me.....