Disco 4 vs FFRR 4.4 TDV8 reliability
Discussion
Hi Folks,
My endless quest to find the right 4x4 continues and once again I am drawn back to late Dosco 4s and late L322 Range Rovers.
I am finding quite a few decent candidates but I'm still wary of potential reliability issues. Budget is I guess about 30k if needed but preferably less.
I'm after somethig without silly miles (say up to 55k) and a good service history. Say 2011 onwards. I'd also like the car to have a reasonable amount of grunt (my other 4x4 is a Landcruiser is grunt is not one of its strong points!)
In truth the Disco 4 is probably a better fit (2 big dogs, out in the country in Scotland in an area they gets some quite grown up snow this time of year) but the RR is also tempting.
The question is - given the above broad criteria am I likely to find a signficant difference in reliability between the above 2 options? The big requirement is they whatever I buy it just needs to work. It will spend a decent amont of time at the airport waiting for its tired master to return late at night after a week away selling what is left of his soul to people who should know better. When I get back to the car I dont want to be wondering if it will start or not.
Have I just ruled out both cars or am I over reacting to internet exaggeration?
As an aside at about 150 miles a week is the big petrol RR a better (or not totally insane) option?
The other candidtaes include the newer (2015 onwars) Jeep Grand Cherokees and such like.
Thanks for the advice and suggestions.
TD
My endless quest to find the right 4x4 continues and once again I am drawn back to late Dosco 4s and late L322 Range Rovers.
I am finding quite a few decent candidates but I'm still wary of potential reliability issues. Budget is I guess about 30k if needed but preferably less.
I'm after somethig without silly miles (say up to 55k) and a good service history. Say 2011 onwards. I'd also like the car to have a reasonable amount of grunt (my other 4x4 is a Landcruiser is grunt is not one of its strong points!)
In truth the Disco 4 is probably a better fit (2 big dogs, out in the country in Scotland in an area they gets some quite grown up snow this time of year) but the RR is also tempting.
The question is - given the above broad criteria am I likely to find a signficant difference in reliability between the above 2 options? The big requirement is they whatever I buy it just needs to work. It will spend a decent amont of time at the airport waiting for its tired master to return late at night after a week away selling what is left of his soul to people who should know better. When I get back to the car I dont want to be wondering if it will start or not.
Have I just ruled out both cars or am I over reacting to internet exaggeration?
As an aside at about 150 miles a week is the big petrol RR a better (or not totally insane) option?
The other candidtaes include the newer (2015 onwars) Jeep Grand Cherokees and such like.
Thanks for the advice and suggestions.
TD
Edited by TorqueDirty on Thursday 8th March 09:35
I have a D4 which I’ve owned for 3 years and it hasn’t put a foot wrong. It may look the same as the slightly less reliable D3 (which I also had for 7 years) but it’s a much better developed car. I have the 8 speed 255hp diesel just before they introduced stop start and I’m glad I did. One less thing to go wrong. Great car which averages 30mpg.
Don’t listen to internet morons who’ve never even sat in one.
Don’t listen to internet morons who’ve never even sat in one.
Wormus has a point. The internet is full of "all Land Rover products will explode in your face costing you £'000s" type posts. OK, Land Rovers / Range Rovers aren't the world's most reliable cars, true. But, a lot of it is how they've been looked after. If you can find a well maintained car, and you have an experienced local indy, there are few cars that can beat them - especially where you live.
Have a look at a 2010 - 2012 L322 Range Rover. Last of that model run, bugs largely ironed out, and £20k will get you a well cared for mint example. Which is a hell of a lot of car for the money.
It's what I did, and I've no regrets.
Have a look at a 2010 - 2012 L322 Range Rover. Last of that model run, bugs largely ironed out, and £20k will get you a well cared for mint example. Which is a hell of a lot of car for the money.
It's what I did, and I've no regrets.
Thanks guys - the comments ease my concern a bit on the reliability side of things.
Is the 5.0 petrol RR woth considering? I do like the engine - I had it in my old XKR, and I actually think it would be better suited to the RR. Do the petrols tend to be more reliable? Range is a consideration too - filling up ALL the time would be a pain. Any idea what sort of range I'd get from a tank of the good stuff in one of the behemoths?
TD
Is the 5.0 petrol RR woth considering? I do like the engine - I had it in my old XKR, and I actually think it would be better suited to the RR. Do the petrols tend to be more reliable? Range is a consideration too - filling up ALL the time would be a pain. Any idea what sort of range I'd get from a tank of the good stuff in one of the behemoths?
TD
Depends how you define reliability. Land Rovers are pretty poor, but their owners have some of the biggest rose tinted specs you will ever see.
At £30k, you will get a decent warranty, so I'm not entirely sure what your concerns are? It goes wrong.
The D4 is certainly better than the now aging D3s. However there are still a few issues you should be aware of.
- Infotainment is s&%t. No really, it is. Bluetooth streaming came along in 2014!! for the D4.
- Fuel tank gauge and sender known to cause issues and not a cheap fix either.
- Suspension Suspension Suspension. D4 is better than the D3, but at 2011, I would still expect the compressor to go pop if it hasn'tt been replaced already. Budget £600-800. Various sensors can be problamatic and D3/4s are very sensitive to battery voltage, so that has to be good.
- Glowplugs. This is a common issue with D3/D4. If they are gone which chances are they will be, budget £800 to get them replaced and you may want to invest in a Fuel Burning Heater Controller to guarantee starting in the colder months.
- I can't remember the cross over year, but you should buy the 8 speed box. It's vastly superior in every way than the 6Sp. Also more reliable too. I can't stress this enough.
Don't bother taking it to Land Rover for repairs. Indys are now pretty savvy with these cars.
Just for reference, I have a D3 and a 83 Series 3, so LRs are my thing. I love my D3, but I do have to budget £1k a year to keep the car on the road. D4 engine is much better than the D3 and the D3 really needed more power from launch.
At £30k, you will get a decent warranty, so I'm not entirely sure what your concerns are? It goes wrong.
The D4 is certainly better than the now aging D3s. However there are still a few issues you should be aware of.
- Infotainment is s&%t. No really, it is. Bluetooth streaming came along in 2014!! for the D4.
- Fuel tank gauge and sender known to cause issues and not a cheap fix either.
- Suspension Suspension Suspension. D4 is better than the D3, but at 2011, I would still expect the compressor to go pop if it hasn'tt been replaced already. Budget £600-800. Various sensors can be problamatic and D3/4s are very sensitive to battery voltage, so that has to be good.
- Glowplugs. This is a common issue with D3/D4. If they are gone which chances are they will be, budget £800 to get them replaced and you may want to invest in a Fuel Burning Heater Controller to guarantee starting in the colder months.
- I can't remember the cross over year, but you should buy the 8 speed box. It's vastly superior in every way than the 6Sp. Also more reliable too. I can't stress this enough.
Don't bother taking it to Land Rover for repairs. Indys are now pretty savvy with these cars.
Just for reference, I have a D3 and a 83 Series 3, so LRs are my thing. I love my D3, but I do have to budget £1k a year to keep the car on the road. D4 engine is much better than the D3 and the D3 really needed more power from launch.
TorqueDirty said:
... - filling up ALL the time would be a pain. Any idea what sort of range I'd get from a tank of the good stuff in one of the behemoths?
That NEVER happens and is another myth. My Mustang has a tiny tank and I need to carefully observe Shell / BP locations at just over 9mpg. When getting over 18mpg and having a 100 litre tank, I worry not.
If you drive over 300 miles a day then you'll be visiting the petrol pumps every 24 hours, but I'd wager that'll be unlikely unless you take it on holiday somewhere. And after that mileage, you'd need a break regardless.
Once upon a time, I used my 4.2 SC to commute into London on a daily basis and needed to refill every 3 days. I used those stops to buy lunch / breakfast from a BP/M&S place so my time was used productively.
bakerstreet said:
Depends how you define reliability. Land Rovers are pretty poor, but their owners have some of the biggest rose tinted specs you will ever see.
At £30k, you will get a decent warranty, so I'm not entirely sure what your concerns are? It goes wrong.
The D4 is certainly better than the now aging D3s. However there are still a few issues you should be aware of.
- Infotainment is s&%t. No really, it is. Bluetooth streaming came along in 2014!! for the D4.
- Fuel tank gauge and sender known to cause issues and not a cheap fix either.
- Suspension Suspension Suspension. D4 is better than the D3, but at 2011, I would still expect the compressor to go pop if it hasn'tt been replaced already. Budget £600-800. Various sensors can be problamatic and D3/4s are very sensitive to battery voltage, so that has to be good.
- Glowplugs. This is a common issue with D3/D4. If they are gone which chances are they will be, budget £800 to get them replaced and you may want to invest in a Fuel Burning Heater Controller to guarantee starting in the colder months.
- I can't remember the cross over year, but you should buy the 8 speed box. It's vastly superior in every way than the 6Sp. Also more reliable too. I can't stress this enough.
Don't bother taking it to Land Rover for repairs. Indys are now pretty savvy with these cars.
Just for reference, I have a D3 and a 83 Series 3, so LRs are my thing. I love my D3, but I do have to budget £1k a year to keep the car on the road. D4 engine is much better than the D3 and the D3 really needed more power from launch.
God what a load of rubbish. Do you own a D4? My D4 hasn't gone wrong in all the time I've owned it. Not a single problem. Nothing in over 65k miles. They are much better than the D3.At £30k, you will get a decent warranty, so I'm not entirely sure what your concerns are? It goes wrong.
The D4 is certainly better than the now aging D3s. However there are still a few issues you should be aware of.
- Infotainment is s&%t. No really, it is. Bluetooth streaming came along in 2014!! for the D4.
- Fuel tank gauge and sender known to cause issues and not a cheap fix either.
- Suspension Suspension Suspension. D4 is better than the D3, but at 2011, I would still expect the compressor to go pop if it hasn'tt been replaced already. Budget £600-800. Various sensors can be problamatic and D3/4s are very sensitive to battery voltage, so that has to be good.
- Glowplugs. This is a common issue with D3/D4. If they are gone which chances are they will be, budget £800 to get them replaced and you may want to invest in a Fuel Burning Heater Controller to guarantee starting in the colder months.
- I can't remember the cross over year, but you should buy the 8 speed box. It's vastly superior in every way than the 6Sp. Also more reliable too. I can't stress this enough.
Don't bother taking it to Land Rover for repairs. Indys are now pretty savvy with these cars.
Just for reference, I have a D3 and a 83 Series 3, so LRs are my thing. I love my D3, but I do have to budget £1k a year to keep the car on the road. D4 engine is much better than the D3 and the D3 really needed more power from launch.
Mine's a MY2012 model with Bluetooth connection. I use it to answer calls and stream music all the time, how do you explain that? Sat nav is a bit slow to enter an address but the rest of it works fine & sounds decent.
Compressor was redesigned for the D4 and even on the D3 its about £350 to replace and goes on for ages, who cares? Mine hasn't gone wrong.
I did 150k miles in my 05 D3, one of the first, s
ttiest models and never needed glowplugs. The car will still start in winter with only half of them working so again, who cares? FBHs never go wrong either, they just burn diesel to heat the cabin in <5 deg so they aren't used that often.OP, they are fine, just buy one.
Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 9th March 19:33
FFRR doesn't consume lower arm bushes like the discos do.
i think a 4.4 has an upgraded bluetooth system
but in my 3.6 it has blue tooth phone, but you have to put a code in every time you get into the car.
that is solved and music streaming added with this little device, which works surprisingly well except for the chinese accent on the welcome message
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B074XB8DV5/ref...
i think a 4.4 has an upgraded bluetooth system
but in my 3.6 it has blue tooth phone, but you have to put a code in every time you get into the car.
that is solved and music streaming added with this little device, which works surprisingly well except for the chinese accent on the welcome message
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B074XB8DV5/ref...
wormus said:
God what a load of rubbish. Do you own a D4? My D4 hasn't gone wrong in all the time I've owned it. Not a single problem. Nothing in over 65k miles. They are much better than the D3.
Mine's a MY2012 model with Bluetooth connection. I use it to answer calls and stream music all the time, how do you explain that? Sat nav is a bit slow to enter an address but the rest of it works fine & sounds decent.
Compressor was redesigned for the D4 and even on the D3 its about £350 to replace and goes on for ages, who cares? Mine hasn't gone wrong.
I did 150k miles in my 05 D3, one of the first, sttiest models and never needed glowplugs. The car will still start in winter with only half of them working so again, who cares? FBHs never go wrong either, they just burn diesel to heat the cabin in <5 deg so they aren't used that often.
OP, they are fine, just buy one.
Mine's a MY2012 model with Bluetooth connection. I use it to answer calls and stream music all the time, how do you explain that? Sat nav is a bit slow to enter an address but the rest of it works fine & sounds decent.
Compressor was redesigned for the D4 and even on the D3 its about £350 to replace and goes on for ages, who cares? Mine hasn't gone wrong.
I did 150k miles in my 05 D3, one of the first, s
ttiest models and never needed glowplugs. The car will still start in winter with only half of them working so again, who cares? FBHs never go wrong either, they just burn diesel to heat the cabin in <5 deg so they aren't used that often.OP, they are fine, just buy one.
Edited by wormus on Friday 9th March 19:33
So you start off saying that I'm talking rubbish, then you say half your glow plugs work. Ok then 😁.
The glow plugs problem is very very common. It's only in recent years that Indies have come up with kit to remove the broken ones with it taking the damn cylinder heads off. Part of the problem is 6mm heads on a long plug.
FBH hardly goes wrong?!? You are kidding right?!? People are making money out of remote kits to compensate for glow plugs failure and to my knowledge the fbh locks out if you let the fuel run to the fuel low light three times and they won't run if the battery voltage goes below 12 and I have seen this happen myself. Winter means the FB owners group is fill of comments about starting and nearly all are glow plugs and FBH related.
I was going by what I'd been told about Bluetooth streaming, but early 4s certainly don't have it and adding it is a pain.
I notice you made no comment on my statements about the gearbox. Numerous D3s do run for thousands of miles with a dodgy TC, but does risk knackering the box. The 8sp is a much better box.
I bought a 2012 4.4 Range Rover Westminster a year ago and it's been great, I've taken it skiing in the alps, to Nurburg and to Le Mans plus towed my track car for a season.
The only thing that's gone wrong with it was one of the suspension airbags split but that was only a couple of hundred pounds to fix.
It's got plenty of power and is surprisingly quick if you want it to be, I also got 30mpg out of it down to Dover with 4 people and two massive ski bags on the roof.
It's very comfy to drive but maybe lacks the rear space of a Disco.
The only thing I would change if I could is that I should have bought an Autobiography edition which has the better seats... Edit - apparently not, just a different leather trim!
The only thing that's gone wrong with it was one of the suspension airbags split but that was only a couple of hundred pounds to fix.
It's got plenty of power and is surprisingly quick if you want it to be, I also got 30mpg out of it down to Dover with 4 people and two massive ski bags on the roof.
It's very comfy to drive but maybe lacks the rear space of a Disco.
The only thing I would change if I could is that I should have bought an Autobiography edition which has the better seats... Edit - apparently not, just a different leather trim!
Edited by Timbuktu on Sunday 11th March 12:59
No but that's what I thought, I could be wrong (and hope I am)!
They certainly look different in the pictures but maybe it's just a different type of leather?
Edit: Westminster on the left and AB on the right?
https://prnt.sc/ipnqqd
They certainly look different in the pictures but maybe it's just a different type of leather?
Edit: Westminster on the left and AB on the right?
https://prnt.sc/ipnqqd
Edited by Timbuktu on Sunday 11th March 12:51
Timbuktu said:
No but that's what I thought, I could be wrong (and hope I am)!
They certainly look different in the pictures but maybe it's just a different type of leather?
You may be right, I mean wrong...I mean I don't think the front seats are different. Apart from trim. I looked at the L322 Westminster, Vogue SE and Autobiography and thought the Autobiography not particularly convincing unless you want electric rear seats and a few other bits. The Westminster had a better stereo (I've not heard it but I can assure you the stereo in my Vogue was rubbish!), but the electric front seats were the same in all - bar a slight difference in trim. You get perforated leather in the Vogue SE, piped leather in the Westie and Auto. I wanted the perforated as I don't think it ages quite as much as the plain leather with trim...but time will tell. That's my understanding of the whole seat thing, but I could easily have missed something... .They certainly look different in the pictures but maybe it's just a different type of leather?
Ah, a man after my own heart. This was a quandary I had up until last Sunday when I went to a main dealer put a deposit down on a stunning late 2013 D4 SDV6 255 HSE with 40k miles. £29k. Disco is much more practical than the RR and less poncy (I used to have one!)
Anyway, I picked the D4 up on Tuesday night and had a lovely drive almost home when suddenly and for no reason the crankshaft snapped. Long story short, it's been recovered back to the main dealer who have said it needs a new engine.
I'm now considering this or a refund or a replacement car.
I guess mechanical failure is always unexpected and can happen at any time, it's just bad luck. Just make sure, FFS, that you get one from a main dealer so you get the 2 year warranty - you never know when somethings going to go wrong!
Anyway, I picked the D4 up on Tuesday night and had a lovely drive almost home when suddenly and for no reason the crankshaft snapped. Long story short, it's been recovered back to the main dealer who have said it needs a new engine.
I'm now considering this or a refund or a replacement car.
I guess mechanical failure is always unexpected and can happen at any time, it's just bad luck. Just make sure, FFS, that you get one from a main dealer so you get the 2 year warranty - you never know when somethings going to go wrong!
Work on jlr cars and disco 4 one of my favourites, some issues i have experienced include cam covers split, egr valves , odd turbo and few engine failures on tdv6.
Not come across glow plug problems or many heater booster faults.
On tdv8 few split intake hoses, air spring failure, broken wiring .
Just like any other car manufacturer they go wrong and would advise one in warranty or extented warranty.
Not come across glow plug problems or many heater booster faults.
On tdv8 few split intake hoses, air spring failure, broken wiring .
Just like any other car manufacturer they go wrong and would advise one in warranty or extented warranty.
Just coming up to 65k in my 2012 D4 HSE. Still serviced every year by LR but no warranty anymore. Problems to date:
Aux heater had a control problem - was fixed under warranty.
Turbo hose went - cost about 150 quid to fix at a LR dealer.
Corroded locking wheel nuts. Replaced under warranty.
Stuck 7th seat - fixed with some grease.
I recently replaced the rear pads - the only brake consumables replaced since new.
Infotainment is a bit slow but is fully functional including BT streaming. Wife loves it, kids love it. Massive space for luggage. Does 32mpg on a long run at a steady 85mph. 8 spd box is truly great I don't ever perceive it hunting for gears. Wind noise can be a bit intrusive at high speeds.
In short, pretty much the perfect car (for us).
Aux heater had a control problem - was fixed under warranty.
Turbo hose went - cost about 150 quid to fix at a LR dealer.
Corroded locking wheel nuts. Replaced under warranty.
Stuck 7th seat - fixed with some grease.
I recently replaced the rear pads - the only brake consumables replaced since new.
Infotainment is a bit slow but is fully functional including BT streaming. Wife loves it, kids love it. Massive space for luggage. Does 32mpg on a long run at a steady 85mph. 8 spd box is truly great I don't ever perceive it hunting for gears. Wind noise can be a bit intrusive at high speeds.
In short, pretty much the perfect car (for us).
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