Thinking of buying a Defender

[olly_rowland]

Hi there guys,
I am currently thinking about selling my 2003 ford fiesta, and upgrading to a Defender. I love the look of all Land Rovers, and now I hope insurance will be cheaper as I turn 21 in a few weeks, it is time to start looking around! I have had to borrow my old mans 2001 td5 Discovery a fair few times to use in my job as the fiesta is just to small. So I have a few questions for you, as well as some information on what I will be using it for, and hopefully you will be able to point me in the right direction of a good Defender to choose!

I need it to be able to tow at least a motorbike trailer with two bikes on it (my fiesta can do this, but takes a year and a half to get to 50mph)

It needs to have a fair bit of room in the back for a lot of equipment including crash mats, climbing gear and camping gear (although sacrificing the back seats to carry gear isnt necesarily a problem, but would prefer not to)

It may occasionally be used off road, nothing to hardcore, but will definitely need to be able to go through wet/boggy fields, up hills etc while carrying a potentially full load.

I reckon after selling my Fiesta, with money I have saved I should be able to have around £6k to £7k to spend (not including insurance)

Also I would like to know how much insurance would be roughly on what ever Defender you think might be suitable.

Cheers guys,

Olly

EDIT

Just thought of a couple more,

how much roughly is an average service going to cost?

what kind of mileage can you get?

How much is tax now days?

Edited by olly_rowland on Sunday 15th March 17:57

[Darkslider]

I'd say for your situation and needs you'd be better off going for a Discovery over a Defender. You only need a Defender if you will be using it an awful lot off road or tackling very severe terrain, they will be awful on the road, slower than your fiesta and on any long journeys you will be sick after half an hour from the noise, the harsh ride and the agricultural driving style. A Discovery will be more than capable off road, has more seats, more load space in the back and is a lot more comfortable and refined on the tarmac, as well as being a lot quicker with a higher cruising speed.

The Defender is closer to a tractor than a car in terms of every day use, so if you don't need the little extra off road ability it has over the disco don't bother with one

For your budget you could easily find a TD5 disco or newer like your dad's I would've thought, but you'll be lucky to find a Defender less than ten years old as they hold their value extremely well.

[Al W]

Darkslider said:

I'd say for your situation and needs you'd be better off going for a Discovery over a Defender. You only need a Defender if you will be using it an awful lot off road or tackling very severe terrain, they will be awful on the road, slower than your fiesta and on any long journeys you will be sick after half an hour from the noise, the harsh ride and the agricultural driving style.

yawn...
You may be right that a Disco would suit the OPs needs better in this case, but there are a vast array of Defenders. I've driven 450 mile trips in my Defender 110 TD5 without tinitus, blindness or even a numb backside. I chose a Defender over the Disco for ultimate towing ability (longer wheelbase and lower gearing) and it works for me.
To the OP, I'd suggest you try both and make your own mind up

[Andy Sargeant]

300 TDI Defenders are better (almost) than money in the bank, steer clear of early TD5's, IMHO.

Getting to be differcult to find very nice one's now, and if you do get a very good allarm fitted.

You can turn up anywhere in a Defender and get respect and a 110 will fit all your gear in with no problem.

Andy.

Edited by Andy Sargeant on Monday 16th March 12:40

[olly_rowland]

Cheers for your help guys. I think the next step for me is going to be to test drive a Defender. As I said previously, I have driven a Disco and loved the high driving position, and almost feels like your sitting in an arm chair as you have so much space. But both on here and the Defender2 forum, the defender is compared more to a tractor than a car, so a test drive is definitely needed so I can make a comparison. The thing is, I much prefer the look of the Defender to the Disco, and love the fact that there are so many things you can add to a Defender to make it more 'hardcore' in both looks and use. I don't know much about green laning, but it might be something I would look into if I got a defender. What are Land Rover dealers like with test drives? Are they quite willing to let you have a go, or do they insist on a deposit, even if your not sure on buying one?

cheers,

Olly

[Darkslider]

Yep, if you've never driven a Defender before you will be shocked the first time you get in one. They really are agricultural in design and miles away from a Disco in terms of comfort and ergonomics. You will either fall in love with it straight away or you will hate it. Personally I love them but everyone's different!

[isv]

Darkslider said:

I'd say for your situation and needs you'd be better off going for a Discovery over a Defender. You only need a Defender if you will be using it an awful lot off road or tackling very severe terrain, they will be awful on the road, slower than your fiesta and on any long journeys you will be sick after half an hour from the noise, the harsh ride and the agricultural driving style. A Discovery will be more than capable off road, has more seats, more load space in the back and is a lot more comfortable and refined on the tarmac, as well as being a lot quicker with a higher cruising speed.

The Defender is closer to a tractor than a car in terms of every day use, so if you don't need the little extra off road ability it has over the disco don't bother with one

For your budget you could easily find a TD5 disco or newer like your dad's I would've thought, but you'll be lucky to find a Defender less than ten years old as they hold their value extremely well.

I disagree. I've owned two Discos, a Rangie and most recently a TD5 Defender 110 Hard Top. My Discoveries were, by far, the most unreliable cars I have ever owned (by a huge margin). The Defender was by far the best. I put almost 40k miles on it in two years and not a single thing went wrong - and I only lost £150 in depreciation over the entire two years.

A Defender is cheap to service and parts can cost peanuts. There's few electrical toys to play up and servicing is cheap (plenty of independents around).

I regularly did a 250 mile round trip in my Defender - just so long as you keep the speed down its fine (but still not as comfy as a Disco). If you want to carry a lot of gear safely then nothing beats a 110 Hard top. They're brilliant at towing too. However, they have the turning circle of a super tanker...

A love the look of Defenders - and they always get a good reaction from other road users... However it is true to say that they are very, well, 'basic'... but for me that is a huge part of their appeal.

[neil-f]

If you buy a Disco expect it to keep depreciating the Defender will hold its value better.

I have just driven 800miles back from the French Alps in our 300Tdi 90 Hardtop in one day

[mister.t]

I drive a 2003 Fiesta, and was looking at Defenders - About £6k -7k budget, and my name is Ollie... Co-incidence?

I bought one last night which I have decided to run alongside my Fiesta, although it ended up costing me just £1k!!

Insurance isn't much of a problem, but do check with the specialists and Direct Line before commiting elsewhere!!

I have been a fool and bought a 2.5 Petrol from 1986, and although I've only had it for about 12 hours, it's drinking the fuel nicely! (12mpg I'd say roughly) Diesels are better on longer journeys, but on shorter journeys and off roading, it doesn't make much difference - Longer runs you may see 30mpg, but around town sub-20's is common.

Tax for 6 months is £101, and 12 months is £185 if reg'd pre '06 (I believe), and next year it goes to £104 or £185 respectivly.

One life, live it Get one!!

[neil-f]

mister.t said:

I drive a 2003 Fiesta, and was looking at Defenders - About £6k -7k budget, and my name is Ollie... Co-incidence?

I bought one last night which I have decided to run alongside my Fiesta, although it ended up costing me just £1k!!

Insurance isn't much of a problem, but do check with the specialists and Direct Line before commiting elsewhere!!

Tax for 6 months is £101, and 12 months is £185 if reg'd pre '06 (I believe), and next year it goes to £104 or £185 respectivly.

One life, live it Get one!!

Your road tax figs are correct for a hard top if it is reg as CSW it will be higher if reg after 1 March 2001.

If you buy a petrol it has to be a V8

Our 300Tdi & Td5 don't do less than 20mpg nearer 30mpg.

You either love them or hate them.

[BLUETHUNDER]

isv said:

Darkslider said:

I'd say for your situation and needs you'd be better off going for a Discovery over a Defender. You only need a Defender if you will be using it an awful lot off road or tackling very severe terrain, they will be awful on the road, slower than your fiesta and on any long journeys you will be sick after half an hour from the noise, the harsh ride and the agricultural driving style. A Discovery will be more than capable off road, has more seats, more load space in the back and is a lot more comfortable and refined on the tarmac, as well as being a lot quicker with a higher cruising speed.

The Defender is closer to a tractor than a car in terms of every day use, so if you don't need the little extra off road ability it has over the disco don't bother with one

For your budget you could easily find a TD5 disco or newer like your dad's I would've thought, but you'll be lucky to find a Defender less than ten years old as they hold their value extremely well.

I disagree. I've owned two Discos, a Rangie and most recently a TD5 Defender 110 Hard Top. My Discoveries were, by far, the most unreliable cars I have ever owned (by a huge margin). The Defender was by far the best. I put almost 40k miles on it in two years and not a single thing went wrong - and I only lost £150 in depreciation over the entire two years.

A Defender is cheap to service and parts can cost peanuts. There's few electrical toys to play up and servicing is cheap (plenty of independents around).

I regularly did a 250 mile round trip in my Defender - just so long as you keep the speed down its fine (but still not as comfy as a Disco). If you want to carry a lot of gear safely then nothing beats a 110 Hard top. They're brilliant at towing too. However, they have the turning circle of a super tanker...

A love the look of Defenders - and they always get a good reaction from other road users... However it is true to say that they are very, well, 'basic'... but for me that is a huge part of their appeal.

I will agree with the reliability issue. I came from a much well loved P38 RR to the Defender.But the P38 always cost a packet with repairs. In nearly two years ownership with the defender,apart from the annual service. Its only cost me a rubber door seal.I for one was not shocked at coming from the RR to the Defender. But that was probably down to the defender i went with. Now that was a shock over the 2.5 petrol 110 i had. I couldnt believe they were the same vehicle. Nice ample power with the V8.And a silky smooth autobox,coupled with aircon for those hot days.I dont think it will ever be sold.

[300bhp/ton]

olly_rowland said:

Hi there guys,
I am currently thinking about selling my 2003 ford fiesta, and upgrading to a Defender. I love the look of all Land Rovers, and now I hope insurance will be cheaper as I turn 21 in a few weeks, it is time to start looking around! I have had to borrow my old mans 2001 td5 Discovery a fair few times to use in my job as the fiesta is just to small. So I have a few questions for you, as well as some information on what I will be using it for, and hopefully you will be able to point me in the right direction of a good Defender to choose!

I need it to be able to tow at least a motorbike trailer with two bikes on it (my fiesta can do this, but takes a year and a half to get to 50mph)

It needs to have a fair bit of room in the back for a lot of equipment including crash mats, climbing gear and camping gear (although sacrificing the back seats to carry gear isnt necesarily a problem, but would prefer not to)

It may occasionally be used off road, nothing to hardcore, but will definitely need to be able to go through wet/boggy fields, up hills etc while carrying a potentially full load.

I reckon after selling my Fiesta, with money I have saved I should be able to have around £6k to £7k to spend (not including insurance)

Also I would like to know how much insurance would be roughly on what ever Defender you think might be suitable.

Cheers guys,

Olly

EDIT

Just thought of a couple more,

how much roughly is an average service going to cost?

what kind of mileage can you get?

How much is tax now days?

Edited by olly_rowland on Sunday 15th March 17:57

I love Landy's and have been around them all my life. I currently have two, a modfied Disco 1 and a Series III. My first car when I was 17 was a 300Tdi 90 hard top.

I think a Defender is well capable of what you are after. A 90 is my preferred choice but remember they are small, about the same length as a Pug 106, so carrying gear and people is not always an option.

If you need the extra space then a 110 is the answer, will seat 5 and still have loads of space to haul stuff in. The also ride slightly better and are a better tow vehicle.

That said a Discovery would also be a pretty good bet. Underneith a Disco is the same chassis, drivetrain and engine. Its only the body and extra trimmings that make it more civilised. You can also probably buy more Disco for your money, however it won't hold its valaue as well.

A P38A Range Rover would be on the cards too.

However a Defender is a perfectly usable rugged 4x4 and anyone who complains about them has just spent too much time behind a cosy desk (IMO )

As to which Defender to get. Well it depends on how much you want to spend and what you want to do with it.

A latter TD5 is IMO the better engine, but you'll pay more for it. The TD5's are also slightly more refined with dash improvements and changes to the door frames, they are also IMO made from thinner metal though, so long term durability may not be as good as older 90's.

Also while I like the TD5 engine very much, in stock trim its a bit pathectic only making 122bhp. It really needs the minimum of a performance chip (~£450) to make it go well.

To this end you could probably buy a very tidy late 300Tdi 90 for better money (or maybe even a 200Tdi if its in good nick). It essentially the same vehicle just with a different engine. So as long as its in good order there really is no problem.

The Tdi engines aren't as quick, only 111bhp but for £400 you can have a big intercooler and the injector pump tweaked, this will take them to about 150bhp and easily out perform a stock TD5.

Spending less on the vehicle would also allow you to buy different tyres, bumpers or suspension if you wanted, so as to get a complete package how you want it.

The only real adv with a Td5 is if you plan to spend more making it go fast later on. They are good for 200bhp and way beyond what a Tdi can manage. They also had optional traction control, although its not really needed for most people most of the time.

There are other options of course. The Rover V8 has been used in the Defender, although rather rare in the UK now adays to find a factory one you could swap one in. So you could buy a much older 90 and build it up how you want it, but that might be more of a long term/,ajor project and not the sort of thing you are after.

Lastly, for something different it might be worth considering a Jeep Wrangler. You can buy a very nice TJ Jeep Wrangler for sensible money. Ok its not a Defender, but the Land Rover originated from the Jeep in the first place, so its a good alternative. Very similar to a Defender in ability, they have a 4.0 litre straight 6 engine so on road performance makes them quicker, mpg will be less, but its not too bad and LPG kits are available. It would also be ok to tow the loads you are looking at.

The Jeep is probably more of a fun aimed vehicle while the Defender is more utilitarian, however both are very rugged and very capable.

BTW - this is my Disco at the mo, bought on a budget and very capable: