TD5 Buying Advice
Discussion
Iam looking to buy a 110 TD5.
What should I be looking out for? any hints on common faults, niggles, service critical items.
Could have saved a fortune if Id asked the same question before I bought my last Range Rover!.
If the question has been asked could some one point me to the thread.
cheers
What should I be looking out for? any hints on common faults, niggles, service critical items.
Could have saved a fortune if Id asked the same question before I bought my last Range Rover!.
If the question has been asked could some one point me to the thread.
cheers
agent006 said:
Droptheclutch said:
Don't buy a TD5.
Why not?There are a few things to check, like engine oil, apart from that they seem to have all the standard Landy strengths and weaknesses.
One "feature" of them is that the electronic throttle can be a bit jerky when the engine is cold, but it doesn't take long to learn to drive through it.
The only thing to be said in favour of the TDi is that you can fix them without a laptop or diagnostic tools, and you can run them on really rubbish fuels. So if you're going on an expedition to the 3rd world you may want a 300.
Edited by Gaspode on Tuesday 7th July 13:15
agent006 said:
Droptheclutch said:
How many issues would you like me to quote??
Well, any would be a start.
Just Google "Disco TD5 problems" and have a good read, it may take some time so put the kettle on...or read the below.
The below is taken from advice given to me by a trusted LR indy - AJS 4x4 in Lower Kingswood, Surrey.
Going through the faults…
Air Suspension, ACE, Fault lights etc, also rust, yes just like the D1, also diagnostics are a pain.
Rear suspension – it can be a pain, but is fairly simple. Some of them are coil sprung also. Airbags are easy enough to change, as is the compressor etc
One of the biggest D2 specific issues you may see with them is the presence of the HDC,ABS and TC lights which can be the ABS shuttle valve, or the modulator - this is more of an expensive fix.
The DC joint on the front prop which can and is known to fail with possibly serious results.
With regard to engine issues the TD5 has a few known issues, some minor, like oil in the ecu plugs, MAF sensor longevity, starter motor interfering with crank position sensor signals, and some major, especially on the earlier <2001 ones like the fact that LR seemed to forget to loctite the oil pump bolt…
Other issues with the earlier TD5 engine were plastic dowels between the head and block which arent ideal. >2002 went to steel
More issues -
Leaking injector seals.
Duel mass flywheels breaking up.
Cracked cylinder heads and fuel chambers.
ACE pipes rusting through.
ACE pumps failing.
Radiators leaking (very common)
Fuel pressure regulators leaking.
Leaking sunroofs, etc,etc,etc.
To name but a few, these are facts and I wish they were not. Over the years it seems like L/Rover expect there customers to do their R+D work.
I accept that there are a few owners who have been lucky and escaped without too much trouble.
Even the man from "AUTOLOGIC" say's that only 40% of faults can be properly detected, then you just keep fitting parts until hopefully the problem goes away.
Droptheclutch said:
Stuff
Thankyou. I don't disagree with you about the TD5 engine, i just have a bugbear about people posting "This <car/engine/part> is s
t" in a thread with no facts behind it. People tend to ignore that kind of post, but put some facts with it and you'll help someone make a decent decision with it.agent006 said:
Droptheclutch said:
Stuff
Thankyou. I don't disagree with you about the TD5 engine, i just have a bugbear about people posting "This <car/engine/part> is st" in a thread with no facts behind it. People tend to ignore that kind of post, but put some facts with it and you'll help someone make a decent decision with it.I wish folk would use the 'search' function on Ph more - there's loads of good, free info on here. (not a dig @ you, just a bugbear of mine.)
Most of the issues listed above are D2 specific , not specific TD5 engine ones, and therefore dont really apply to a 110.
I wouldn't buy a 300TDI anymore. The TD5 is a better engine.
There is more too it that that however, I would buy the bext condition most looked after 110 I could find if I were you, which in all honesty is more likely to be a TD5 than TDI
I wouldn't buy a 300TDI anymore. The TD5 is a better engine.
There is more too it that that however, I would buy the bext condition most looked after 110 I could find if I were you, which in all honesty is more likely to be a TD5 than TDI
Edited by Psimpson7 on Wednesday 8th July 03:08
Psimpson7 said:
Most of the issues listed above are D2 specific , not specific TD5 engine ones, and therefore dont really apply to a 110.
I wouldn't buy a 300TDI anymore. The TD5 is a better engine.
There is more too it that that however, I would buy the bext condition most looked after 110 I could find if I were you, which in all honesty is more likely to be a TD5 than TDI
utter bI wouldn't buy a 300TDI anymore. The TD5 is a better engine.
There is more too it that that however, I would buy the bext condition most looked after 110 I could find if I were you, which in all honesty is more likely to be a TD5 than TDI
Edited by Psimpson7 on Wednesday 8th July 03:08
ks, my good man.The TD5 is Junk, plain and simple.
If the TD5 is the 'better' engine, why, oh why did the british Army give it the heave-ho???? And then go back to which engine, exactly? Go on, please tell me
Psimpson7 said:
Its more powerful, cleaner, quieter, has a cam chain rather than a cam belt, can be tuned far more easily, has more torque, quieter etc
I believe the militaty lack of use was down to them not being able to get the electronic signals to be 'hidden' so it was easy to locate
The first points you mention are valid, however at what price reliability??? The chain V belt is not an issue. Yes it can be tuned more easily as it has an ECU (that's a whole other thread!)
A 300 Tdi in fine fettle is a better engine than an average TD5 and it has far, far fewer areas to go SERIOUSLY wrong.
The British Army had major issues with reliability in the first instance and they found the TD5 lump of junk to be a pain in the proverbial butt.
I feel you are trying too hard to justify your purchase of a TD5...but hey, you could say the same thing about me and my 300Tdi. The thing is I did my homework and weighed up the pros and cons. I've not looked back and I've got an awesome bit of kit that doesn't eat money like yours does (I read your blog), and yes, I know you've upgraded bits and bobs too, so it's not all repair work. So far you've got off lightly I think.
If tuning is your thing, a 300Tdi lump can me tuned too. More easily than you think also.
lol.
I don't think I have got off lightly! but the things that have happened have been partly at least my fault. For instance smashing a radiator in far north queensland, which has since meant I changed the head gasket for my own piece of mind, as it was just showing over pressure past the cap. Interestingly though the majority of faults that I have had havent been either electronic or engine related. I do however have a full set of sensors and a diagnostics kit with me. (But that just isn't necessary in the UK)
There really, excluding the ECU is only one sensor that will stop the TD5 dead and that is the crank position sensor.
Where is any info regarding the military and the TD5 reliability issues as I think this is an old wives tale!
I just dislike peoples sweeping statements exclaiming something is junk, especially when the OP was questioning a 110 and most of the listed faults are D2 specific anyway!
And just to add I run a TD5 in a far far more remote environment that you run yours in!! (and I have nearly total faith in it)
I have plenty of experience of the TDI also, and I would prefer to work on a TD5 over a TDI
And just too add why is the chain vs belt not an issue? Is it because its aweak area on your beloved TDI?
Rgds
Pete
I don't think I have got off lightly! but the things that have happened have been partly at least my fault. For instance smashing a radiator in far north queensland, which has since meant I changed the head gasket for my own piece of mind, as it was just showing over pressure past the cap. Interestingly though the majority of faults that I have had havent been either electronic or engine related. I do however have a full set of sensors and a diagnostics kit with me. (But that just isn't necessary in the UK)
There really, excluding the ECU is only one sensor that will stop the TD5 dead and that is the crank position sensor.
Where is any info regarding the military and the TD5 reliability issues as I think this is an old wives tale!
I just dislike peoples sweeping statements exclaiming something is junk, especially when the OP was questioning a 110 and most of the listed faults are D2 specific anyway!
And just to add I run a TD5 in a far far more remote environment that you run yours in!!
(and I have nearly total faith in it)I have plenty of experience of the TDI also, and I would prefer to work on a TD5 over a TDI
And just too add why is the chain vs belt not an issue? Is it because its aweak area on your beloved TDI?
Rgds
Pete
Edited by Psimpson7 on Wednesday 8th July 12:36
Doom Monger said:
All kinds of terrible st happens to TD5s, and nothing ever goes wrong with TDis
Gosh, I really have got off lightly! My 2003 TD5 has got 72K miles on it now, and all I've ever needed was routine servicing. There have been the usual LR moans and niggles like leaking door seals and corroded bits and pieces, but nothing engine related at all.t happens to TD5s, and nothing ever goes wrong with TDisI have heard the stories about the Army not using TD5s, but my understanding was that it was all about field maintainability, not reliability issues.
I chose a TD5 because it was the newest Defender I could afford, I think the engine is great.
It's also not just the engine it's the rest of the car, a 300tdi in perfect condition may well be a good engine but they stopped making them over 10 years ago so everything will be getting tired and rusty.
You can get a TD5 up to 2006 I think, For other reasons I would buy one of those over an early Puma as these may have teething trouble.
If your really hung up like some on a 300tdi then you can still buy new ones but they are a lot of money.
A model nearing the end of it's run is going to be very reliable and also quite new and as it's now 2009 and not 1998 the sensible money is on the TD5.
Have a read of this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bathtub_curve
Steve
It's also not just the engine it's the rest of the car, a 300tdi in perfect condition may well be a good engine but they stopped making them over 10 years ago so everything will be getting tired and rusty.
You can get a TD5 up to 2006 I think, For other reasons I would buy one of those over an early Puma as these may have teething trouble.
If your really hung up like some on a 300tdi then you can still buy new ones but they are a lot of money.
A model nearing the end of it's run is going to be very reliable and also quite new and as it's now 2009 and not 1998 the sensible money is on the TD5.
Have a read of this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bathtub_curve
Steve
Edited by Steve UK on Thursday 9th July 09:22
Psimpson7 said:
lol.
I don't think I have got off lightly! but the things that have happened have been partly at least my fault. For instance smashing a radiator in far north queensland, which has since meant I changed the head gasket for my own piece of mind, as it was just showing over pressure past the cap. Interestingly though the majority of faults that I have had havent been either electronic or engine related. I do however have a full set of sensors and a diagnostics kit with me. (But that just isn't necessary in the UK)
There really, excluding the ECU is only one sensor that will stop the TD5 dead and that is the crank position sensor.
Where is any info regarding the military and the TD5 reliability issues as I think this is an old wives tale!
I just dislike peoples sweeping statements exclaiming something is junk, especially when the OP was questioning a 110 and most of the listed faults are D2 specific anyway!
And just to add I run a TD5 in a far far more remote environment that you run yours in!! (and I have nearly total faith in it)
I have plenty of experience of the TDI also, and I would prefer to work on a TD5 over a TDI
And just too add why is the chain vs belt not an issue? Is it because its aweak area on your beloved TDI?
Rgds
Pete
As I said, and as has been said by a LR specialist...I don't think I have got off lightly! but the things that have happened have been partly at least my fault. For instance smashing a radiator in far north queensland, which has since meant I changed the head gasket for my own piece of mind, as it was just showing over pressure past the cap. Interestingly though the majority of faults that I have had havent been either electronic or engine related. I do however have a full set of sensors and a diagnostics kit with me. (But that just isn't necessary in the UK)
There really, excluding the ECU is only one sensor that will stop the TD5 dead and that is the crank position sensor.
Where is any info regarding the military and the TD5 reliability issues as I think this is an old wives tale!
I just dislike peoples sweeping statements exclaiming something is junk, especially when the OP was questioning a 110 and most of the listed faults are D2 specific anyway!
And just to add I run a TD5 in a far far more remote environment that you run yours in!!
(and I have nearly total faith in it)I have plenty of experience of the TDI also, and I would prefer to work on a TD5 over a TDI
And just too add why is the chain vs belt not an issue? Is it because its aweak area on your beloved TDI?
Rgds
Pete
Edited by Psimpson7 on Wednesday 8th July 12:36
I accept that there are a few owners who have been lucky and escaped without too much trouble.
Love, like faith can be blind, and I see there's a few of you TD5 lot that fit into that category, as opposed to Psimpson7 who does not have total faith and even admits it. Classic!
Chain V belt is not an issue as they are easy to change. Mine has been done twice, purely due to age, not milage. I suppose you're saying chains NEVER break, stretch or wear? Go on, Mr Design Engineer, please tell me that's the case
With regards to the Army info - it's not in any way an old wives tale. You just need to know, and have spoken with, the right folk.
Steve UK said:
...they stopped making them over 10 years ago so everything will be getting tired and rusty.
A model nearing the end of it's run is going to be very reliable and also quite new and as it's now 2009 and not 1998 the sensible money is on the TD5.
If your really hung up like some on a 300tdi then you can still buy new ones but they are a lot of money.
Brilliant, now there's 2 sweeping statements. Need a bigger broom?A model nearing the end of it's run is going to be very reliable and also quite new and as it's now 2009 and not 1998 the sensible money is on the TD5.
If your really hung up like some on a 300tdi then you can still buy new ones but they are a lot of money.
You can get new 300tdi's? Really? Why's that then?
I have been into two of the South Easts most respected LR Indys recently. Guess what their main bread & butter repair vehicle is? TD5's. They even BOTH told me not to buy one as they're more trouble than anything else, even though I had the budget for a far more recent model than my Defender 300Tdi.
I listened to the experts (and not TD5 fanboys - I did consult a few prior to my purchase though, and some were actually honest re: their TD5 woes) and I hope the OP does too.
Droptheclutch said:
With regards to the Army info - it's not in any way an old wives tale. You just need to know, and have spoken with, the right folk.
And I suppose you do... Any proof....? No.... Well there you go.
As for total faith....I wouldn't have it in any car, I'm just not blasé or stupid enough to think things can't go wrong.
Bored of this now.
To the OP, hope you get what ever you want, and as a side point there are much better forums for LR stuff than Pistonheads. Some of which dont turn most threads into a stupid argument!
Droptheclutch said:
[
With regards to the Army info - it's not in any way an old wives tale. You just need to know, and have spoken with, the right folk.
I agree the tdi is a good engine, I think the reason the military dropped the TD5 is that they probably adopted it too early. As described in the bathtub curve the military require a zero infant mortality rate for obvious reasons. The TD5 in it's early life would not come up to this requirement (as many new products) so was dropped in favour of its predecessor which I don't blame them, If I was a soldier I would want 100% reliability. I think that if the military were to adopt the td5 now it would be no problem as all the early reliability problems have been sorted. This probably would not be the case though it may be better the devil you know sort of thing. But one day they will stop using it for something better as it really isn't up to the job, it's slowwwwwwww and with the ever increasing demand by extra weight from armour this day will be sooner than you think. And it probably wont be the td5 either if that makes you happy With regards to the Army info - it's not in any way an old wives tale. You just need to know, and have spoken with, the right folk.
I know a company which rebuilds the wolf engines for the military, maybe I could ask for some stories of failures because I would think there are lots.
I still think that for driving in UK and remote areas then the td5 is a good option as it can be just as easily fixed as any other engines.
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