The P38 Range Rover

[The Stiglet]

I'm thinking about getting rid of my TVR S Series and looking to buy something much more practical, waterproof (!), comfortable etc etc and I keep coming up with a Range Rover P38. But I've been looking at all the problems with these through the forum in the past few days and honestly, am I insane to even consider one? I'm very keen not to have a car that is going to leach me dry - my TVR has cost about £1,000 per month since I've owned it this year. It may well be totally sorted now but I don't want to go down this route again with another car so soon - ever!

Am I right to go for a 2000+ model, 4.0 HSE and spend up to £5,500? Worth it? Should I consider the 4.6?

Any advice will be gratefully received. Oh, I do like the Classic, don't get me wrong and yes, I'd love an LSE but I can't find any and I do really like the late P38's...

Cheers

Edited by The Stiglet on Wednesday 16th September 09:46

[plasticpig]

It appears to be a bit of a gamble to be honest. This is based on the research I did before buying one a couple of months back. So far the only cost I have had is replacing the battery and a split hose. Plenty of PH'rs have had loads of trouble with them and others very little.

[Triple7]

Go for the 4.6 Vogue as low a miles as possible. It will be lucky dip, some peeps, myself included never had an issue. Others are in financial ruin.....

Buy from someone who knows these cars inside out, or get it looked over by someone who does.

[Triple7]

Don't konw where you live, but in the south Hawthorns in Farham (former TVr dealer) know them v well, as do Kingsley 4x4 in Kinsley, Hants.

[Meeja]

The Stiglet said:

Am I right to go for a 2000+ model

Yes. The electronics were changed in 2000 from Lucas GEMS to Bosch - and whilst not infallible, they are much more reliable. Fairly easy to see what engine a potential car has by popping the bonnet open.

The Stiglet said:

Should I consider the 4.6?

If you are looking for a top of the range Vogue, they only came in 4.6 flavour.

The engines are the same, but the 4.6 has a longer stroke - so both 4.0 and the 4.6 can suffer fatal engine failure caused by porous/slipped liners. Well documented on the net, and costs ruinous money to repair.

Lots of things to look for in a potential car, some problems easily and cheaply fixed (cruise control not working - usually caused by perished rubber pipes) and some problems notoriously expensive (failed O-rings in heater core)

Low mileage is better, but a well sorted, well maintained higher miler can be ok (particularly if there is documentation to support a replacement engine for example)

Check everything works - and I mean everything!

If you are not "handy with the spanners" and plan to get a dealer (no way!) or a decent independant (make sure that you have one!) to carry out any work, then the "little" things can end up being relatively expensive to put right.

Whilst these cars are cheap to buy nowadays, they still have the running costs of a £40-£50k motor.

I have owned a Vogue P38 for eighteen months now, and love it to bits - and so far, whilst not cheap to run, it hasn't cost me the earth. However, I spent a very, very long time looking, and rejected literally dozens of cars in my search.

I would highly recommend driving a few so you get a feel for what a good one is like.

[plasticpig]

Meeja said:

The Stiglet said:

Am I right to go for a 2000+ model

Yes. The electronics were changed in 2000 from Lucas GEMS to Bosch - and whilst not infallible, they are much more reliable. Fairly easy to see what engine a potential car has by popping the bonnet open.

The electronics were changed in 1999 not 2000. My 4.6 is T reg and has Bosch engine management.

[richardxjr]

Just had to spend some money on my 97 4.6 Autobiography. Bought at Christmas (<£3k), done 9000 miles since including 2 x 1500mile round trips to Scotland. Within my ownership bought 2 tyres and some petrol and changed the oil. Now on 98k.

New front brake pads. £25 and couldn't be easier to change.

Do your homework find a good un and these are serious bargains. I know everyone on here loves the Classics - I had a good 91 VogueSE 3.9 previously but a good P38 is so much better.

[B15TT0]

I believe some parts from the Metrocab are interchangeable which can help reduce running costs.

Mainly body panels.



Ps - buy a classic!

[Meeja]

plasticpig said:

Meeja said:

The Stiglet said:

Am I right to go for a 2000+ model

Yes. The electronics were changed in 2000 from Lucas GEMS to Bosch - and whilst not infallible, they are much more reliable. Fairly easy to see what engine a potential car has by popping the bonnet open.

The electronics were changed in 1999 not 2000. My 4.6 is T reg and has Bosch engine management.

You are of course absolutely correct!

But because I suspect of old stock not being registered immediately, some of the cars on 1999 registrations have the GEMS electronics - Hence the common view that anything 2000 and newer is Bosch.

[Meeja]

richardxjr said:

Do your homework find a good un and these are serious bargains.

Until you are at the petrol station filling up, or you set your display to MPG, and see the high teens!

[richardxjr]

Meeja said:

richardxjr said:

Do your homework find a good un and these are serious bargains.

Until you are at the petrol station filling up, or you set your display to MPG, and see the high teens!

Yeah apart from that bit! Avg 17.9mpg on the motorway running 80-90.
Comfy though!

[dnb]

Mine does 21mpg on the M-way at similar speeds.

[richardxjr]

That could be another advantage of the later Bosch engine management that yours has. Mine's an earlier Gems.

I'm happy anyway getting from Sussex coast into Scotland before needing to refuel; car fully loaded and with 4 bikes on the towbar rack.

Edited by richardxjr on Thursday 17th September 09:03

[Meeja]

dnb said:

Mine does 21mpg on the M-way at similar speeds.

When I run mine on petrol, the computer returns figures of between 18 and 20 for mixed use (Motorway/A roads and some city driving)

On LPG, it returns figures of 21-23(!) - But I presume that the computer throws a mardy when running on gas, and hence gives duff figures!

I think I am getting an average of around 15-17 on gas. (Based on 75 litres in the tank, and a range of 250 miles)

Mine also has Bosch electrickery.

Edited by Meeja on Thursday 17th September 10:48

[The Stiglet]

Thanks for all the advice guys. So the 4.6 should not be avoided as it is just as likely to have problems as the 4.0...? I remember reading that it wasn't bored out further so I couldn't see why it would be more likely to slip or crack the block.

I think driving a good few of them is definitely the way forward and I'm not buying one without a full check by a specialist. If I'd done that on the TVR I wouldn't have bought it! Lesson learnt.

Just to throw in a curve ball, what are your views on the Land Rover Discovery 2 with the 4.0 V8? I once had a long trip in the back of a TD5 version and felt sick the whole way and very uncomfortable - the space was fine if you're a child but not an adult. More reliable or no difference?

Thanks again.

[richardxjr]

I'm sure I read somewhere that the D2's chassis has no rust protection, where the P38 does.

I do like the D2 though. Just a bit too tall for 2m car park barriers which I go through regularly.

Don't think it has the air suspension either which is fab (when it works! no probs with mine tho)

[Meeja]

The indy that services my car provided me with a Disco 2 as a courtesy car once, and whilst a fairly decent bit of kit, it was world's apart from a P38 Rangie in every sense.

[Denis O]

The Stiglet said:

Thanks for all the advice guys. So the 4.6 should not be avoided as it is just as likely to have problems as the 4.0...? I remember reading that it wasn't bored out further so I couldn't see why it would be more likely to slip or crack the block.

I think driving a good few of them is definitely the way forward and I'm not buying one without a full check by a specialist. If I'd done that on the TVR I wouldn't have bought it! Lesson learnt.

Just to throw in a curve ball, what are your views on the Land Rover Discovery 2 with the 4.0 V8? I once had a long trip in the back of a TD5 version and felt sick the whole way and very uncomfortable - the space was fine if you're a child but not an adult. More reliable or no difference?

Thanks again.

We have a 2002 P38 4.6 Vogue and a 2001 Disco V8 ES in our fleet and although they are both great cars the P38 is light years ahead in everything other than ride. The Disco is equipped with ACE (Active Cornering Enhancement) which means it corners like an Elise. Not quite but you get the point. The P38 is a wallowy old Hector and is not comfortable being chucked round corners.

In every other way the P38 is superior but with a new price around £60k compared to the Disco at about £32k it's hardly surprising really.

[richardxjr]

^ I'm really surprised to hear that about the handling (I assume you mean handling, round corners etc although you said 'ride')

My 38 handles really well (for what it is) mind you I always have my air susp locked down to 'highway' lower ride height.

I simply cannot believe that the ride quality (comfort) of the D2 will be better than a 38.

[The Stiglet]

Bit of a surprise to me too - mind you, maybe the one I went in didn't have the rear air suspension 'handling pack'thing. It seemed to judder and scuttle shake all over the shop - far worse than my TVR!

Might try my luck this weekend and see how the P38 drives.

Thanks again