P38a - great 2nd hand buy or ruinessly expensive moneypit?
Discussion
Hi there,
The missus and I are have a re-shuffle on the car front, and will be replacing my S2000 and her 206 HDi with 2 different cars - something sporty (but not the S2000, too hard to drive for the missus - prob a TT) and something practical for me.
I've always loved the P38 Range Rovers since they were first released, so have been considering one of these - would be great for towing my bike to trackdays and for putting stuff in to take to the tip too.
However, I am concerned about the running costs on these things. I've been told to avoid the diesels as they are (very) slow and have head gasket problems, so have been mainly looking at the 4.0 and 4.6 V8's. Is there much difference between the 2 engines other than the obvious 600cc? Any difference in fuel economy or reliability, for instance?
Due to their age, road tax seems reasonable, about the same as the S2000, but the fuel costs do worry me. What sort of tank range can I expect from the petrol versions, and how much is a full tank these days? I get around 240 miles from the S, but then it only costs £45 to fill up, so around 25mpg. How much worst will the V8's be?
Also, anything else I should consider? Other option is a Freelander, but the V6's don't seem highly rated and the diesels are pretty expensive for what they are (for a nice one, anyway).
The missus and I are have a re-shuffle on the car front, and will be replacing my S2000 and her 206 HDi with 2 different cars - something sporty (but not the S2000, too hard to drive for the missus - prob a TT) and something practical for me.
I've always loved the P38 Range Rovers since they were first released, so have been considering one of these - would be great for towing my bike to trackdays and for putting stuff in to take to the tip too.
However, I am concerned about the running costs on these things. I've been told to avoid the diesels as they are (very) slow and have head gasket problems, so have been mainly looking at the 4.0 and 4.6 V8's. Is there much difference between the 2 engines other than the obvious 600cc? Any difference in fuel economy or reliability, for instance?
Due to their age, road tax seems reasonable, about the same as the S2000, but the fuel costs do worry me. What sort of tank range can I expect from the petrol versions, and how much is a full tank these days? I get around 240 miles from the S, but then it only costs £45 to fill up, so around 25mpg. How much worst will the V8's be?
Also, anything else I should consider? Other option is a Freelander, but the V6's don't seem highly rated and the diesels are pretty expensive for what they are (for a nice one, anyway).
Average 18MPG on my 4.6 P38. Try not to fill it up fully - too scary! ~85-90 quid if run really low. 4.0 supposed to be a bit better on fuel consumption, but the 4.6 can still go a bit for such a heavy lump, especially in Sport mode.
Had mine about 7 years, only problems have been a weeping head gasket, whixh was replaced and a small leak on the heater matrix - repaired with radweld or simliar (work by my local garage). Howver there are some horror stories out there, try and get a low mileage one. Lots of electrics on them, if anything goes wrong can be big money. Have a mate with one where its had problems with the brakes and has been a money pit.
Use mine for going to the dump, runing in laws around etc. Had an S2000 at the same time so always had a choice of car, which fitted different uses. Don't know why you wife doesnt like the S2000 my OH moaned like hell when I said I was selling mine / hers.
Had mine about 7 years, only problems have been a weeping head gasket, whixh was replaced and a small leak on the heater matrix - repaired with radweld or simliar (work by my local garage). Howver there are some horror stories out there, try and get a low mileage one. Lots of electrics on them, if anything goes wrong can be big money. Have a mate with one where its had problems with the brakes and has been a money pit.
Use mine for going to the dump, runing in laws around etc. Had an S2000 at the same time so always had a choice of car, which fitted different uses. Don't know why you wife doesnt like the S2000 my OH moaned like hell when I said I was selling mine / hers.
The S2000 is very much a drivers car, and the missus hasn't been driving that long, so getting used to the heavy clutch, very precise gearbox, huge bonnet (for the size of car) etc etc is a bit scary for her to be honest! More than anything, she's scared of bumping it into something I think!
So we'd replace that with a TT I imagine - still sporty and compact, but a lot easier to drive - plus she's always wanted one.
So that just leaves us with need a practical, luxury sort of car. Was keen on 330i Sport (Touring) but always had a soft spot for the P38's!
So how many miles would the £90 get yoo do you reckon, just general dfay to day driving rather than on a motorway constantly?
So we'd replace that with a TT I imagine - still sporty and compact, but a lot easier to drive - plus she's always wanted one.
So that just leaves us with need a practical, luxury sort of car. Was keen on 330i Sport (Touring) but always had a soft spot for the P38's!
So how many miles would the £90 get yoo do you reckon, just general dfay to day driving rather than on a motorway constantly?
In my opinion the P38 will be a complete money pit.
I've owned one and I know 5 people who've had them , all have had problems way beyond what can be reasonably expected.
Seriously , unless you want to be shelling out several hundred pounds a time on a regular basis leave well alone.
I've owned one and I know 5 people who've had them , all have had problems way beyond what can be reasonably expected.
Seriously , unless you want to be shelling out several hundred pounds a time on a regular basis leave well alone.
Edited by R60EST on Monday 26th October 18:38
Neil1300r's OH here! I have just been out and checked the onboard computer on the Rangie and according to that, I have been getting 17mpg at an average speed of 25mph (I do a lot of sitting in traffic mixed in with motorway miles!) which gives you a range of 320m on a tank! It is due for a service, because it normally does about 18.5mpg! 
Here's a buying guide I put together on the P38. If you are prepared to fix problems yourself, then it can work - but paying someone else to will be very costly.
I got about 13-14MPG at best out of my 4.6 around town. Resetting it whilst at a constant 70mph on the motorway got about 16-17mpg iirc.
I got about 13-14MPG at best out of my 4.6 around town. Resetting it whilst at a constant 70mph on the motorway got about 16-17mpg iirc.
Hmmm.... difficult one.
Get youself a well looked after low mileage one, and you will be in for seriously comfortable wafting.
There are fewer nicer places to be when stuck in traffic.
Mine runs on LPG (I had the conversion done myslef, so I know it was a quality installation - a lot of botch jobs out there!) so the fuel costs are not at all bad. I even manage decent MPG (19-21 on petrol and 16-18 on gas) but I don't exactly drive it "enthusiastically"
I spent a VERY long time researching and looking for a "good 'un" - and it has been a fabulous car.... but has had a couple of bills that made me wince a bit. (Nothing like the ones that I know BLUETHUNDER recieved!)
I bought it because I *really* wanted one.... and I am glad that I did, because it is a great car, and have no current plans to change it.
However, having experienced a couple of things failing without warning, and experienced the cost of putting them right (I hate having things on a car that are not working properly), I drive it with the slight worry at the back of my mind that it could ruin me financially at any moment.
As a happy owner of a P38, would I recommend one to another PH'er? the answer is yes, but only if you are prepared to accept that it WILL hit you with a big bill when you least expect it.
Get youself a well looked after low mileage one, and you will be in for seriously comfortable wafting.
There are fewer nicer places to be when stuck in traffic.
Mine runs on LPG (I had the conversion done myslef, so I know it was a quality installation - a lot of botch jobs out there!) so the fuel costs are not at all bad. I even manage decent MPG (19-21 on petrol and 16-18 on gas) but I don't exactly drive it "enthusiastically"
I spent a VERY long time researching and looking for a "good 'un" - and it has been a fabulous car.... but has had a couple of bills that made me wince a bit. (Nothing like the ones that I know BLUETHUNDER recieved!)
I bought it because I *really* wanted one.... and I am glad that I did, because it is a great car, and have no current plans to change it.
However, having experienced a couple of things failing without warning, and experienced the cost of putting them right (I hate having things on a car that are not working properly), I drive it with the slight worry at the back of my mind that it could ruin me financially at any moment.
As a happy owner of a P38, would I recommend one to another PH'er? the answer is yes, but only if you are prepared to accept that it WILL hit you with a big bill when you least expect it.
This was my P38 not long before i sold it.I will add. That when i bought this car it was an absolute pristine example with a full main dealer history. And it was like that the day i sold it.Granted. It is a nice place to be. But i have been in some just as nice places since its gone. And those havent cost me anywhere near what this cost me.I had this vehicle 9 years in total. And bought it when it had just turned three years old.
In that time the following happened. 2 months in to ownership the air suspension failed. It was outside warranty. So the money was coming out of my pocket. The Range Rover went in to Strastone Park Lane. Who couldnt really determine what the cause was. So a complete replacement of the system was ordered(Remember this was a time when indies didnt have access to the software) So i was stuffed for using a main dealer.They quoted me up at £2400 to replace it all. I got that down a bit further as i supplied genuine LR parts at a fraction of the cost they were chargin me. The bill still came to £650 for Strastones Labour.
One year in to ownership the porous block issue raised its ugly head. Bang goes another £3500 on a John Eales block. The other are as follows.Over the 9 years i had it.
New Rad
Window Mechanism x5
Door Locks x3
HEVAC x2
Airsprings x6
Gearbox E.C.U. x2
SRS relay
Aircon condensor
Heater Matrix
O-ring seals in the heater system
A.B.S pump
Electric seat switch
Ride height sensors x4
Another air suspension compressor
Weather strip above the windscreen x3
cruise contro bellow
cruise control module
Key 1 x 2
Key 2 x 1
This was in addition to the numerous call outs by the R.A.C after suffering engine immobilisation. And doesnt include everyday wear and tear. Brakes,discs,tyres, 3 sets of.and regular servicing.
I bought it with 45,000mls on the clock.Sold it with 119,000.And before anyone says. "Oh you must have had a lemon" Then i can tell you that i rent garages from an indie who works on these day in day out. And its all the same problems.
Now one of the vehicles that i have replaced the P38 with over the last few years has been one of these. This is the second one i have owned and also the current one.........
It might not be every ones bag. But it does for me. The pluses over the RR are...
Seats 6 comfortably
Plenty of space in the back to put all my crap
More powerfull than the RR
More economical as well.(In super O/D 25mpg at 68mph)
And nothing goes wrong or breaks off.
In addition to this. Like the RR i get full leather. Aircon,cruise,electric seats.Power adjustable pedals. Infinity sound system as standard. Which sounds way,way better than the crappy Harmon Kardon unit in the RR. And all its had like the one before is a yearly service at £250. When this one goes. I will replace it with another.
In that time the following happened. 2 months in to ownership the air suspension failed. It was outside warranty. So the money was coming out of my pocket. The Range Rover went in to Strastone Park Lane. Who couldnt really determine what the cause was. So a complete replacement of the system was ordered(Remember this was a time when indies didnt have access to the software) So i was stuffed for using a main dealer.They quoted me up at £2400 to replace it all. I got that down a bit further as i supplied genuine LR parts at a fraction of the cost they were chargin me. The bill still came to £650 for Strastones Labour.
One year in to ownership the porous block issue raised its ugly head. Bang goes another £3500 on a John Eales block. The other are as follows.Over the 9 years i had it.
New Rad
Window Mechanism x5
Door Locks x3
HEVAC x2
Airsprings x6
Gearbox E.C.U. x2
SRS relay
Aircon condensor
Heater Matrix
O-ring seals in the heater system
A.B.S pump
Electric seat switch
Ride height sensors x4
Another air suspension compressor
Weather strip above the windscreen x3
cruise contro bellow
cruise control module
Key 1 x 2
Key 2 x 1
This was in addition to the numerous call outs by the R.A.C after suffering engine immobilisation. And doesnt include everyday wear and tear. Brakes,discs,tyres, 3 sets of.and regular servicing.
I bought it with 45,000mls on the clock.Sold it with 119,000.And before anyone says. "Oh you must have had a lemon" Then i can tell you that i rent garages from an indie who works on these day in day out. And its all the same problems.
Now one of the vehicles that i have replaced the P38 with over the last few years has been one of these. This is the second one i have owned and also the current one.........
It might not be every ones bag. But it does for me. The pluses over the RR are...
Seats 6 comfortably
Plenty of space in the back to put all my crap
More powerfull than the RR
More economical as well.(In super O/D 25mpg at 68mph)
And nothing goes wrong or breaks off.
In addition to this. Like the RR i get full leather. Aircon,cruise,electric seats.Power adjustable pedals. Infinity sound system as standard. Which sounds way,way better than the crappy Harmon Kardon unit in the RR. And all its had like the one before is a yearly service at £250. When this one goes. I will replace it with another.
OK, well after reading everyone's views, opinions and what have you, I think I will sadly have to give the P38's a pass! They are a little more thirsty than I had hoped - to be expected from a 3 ton V8 I suppose - but I really don't want to be landed with surprise bills of a couple of grand at a time, and these are not the first stories I've heard like this either.
One option for owners might be to take out independent warranties? Prob get one for £250-£350 a year, but looking at some of the regular issues that occur that could be money well spent!
Still, thanks for all the opinions and comments - I'm off to look at BMW@s again!
One option for owners might be to take out independent warranties? Prob get one for £250-£350 a year, but looking at some of the regular issues that occur that could be money well spent!
Still, thanks for all the opinions and comments - I'm off to look at BMW@s again!
fesuvious said:
P38'S
get a manual, not auto
Swop out the air suspension for coils - the kit costs only £150 (max)
And you have a cracking vehicle.
Hmm. If you do all that, I think you get away from the point of purchasing it in the first place.get a manual, not auto
Swop out the air suspension for coils - the kit costs only £150 (max)
And you have a cracking vehicle.
Not aware of any issues with the autbox - and there are plenty about as spares.
Suspension - thats now been sussed and you can access the ECU yourself. Spares are pretty reasonable too now.
fesuvious said:
true, but the air doesn't ride any better than a GOOD set of coils&dampers. However, air can go wrong....
I agree re: auto's, but if you truly want to never worry about the box, and just eliminate another 'possible' then manuals a safe bet
But then you have a clutch to worry about... I agree re: auto's, but if you truly want to never worry about the box, and just eliminate another 'possible' then manuals a safe bet
I can't believe people are getting 18mpg from them. I had a Discovery 4.0 a while back, and have used and worked with the 4.0 Series II versions. Neither (not even when new) would get above 15 mpg, not unless you got out and pushed anyway. I think I averaged around 13 mpg overall, possibly up to 15 or so on a run. And I wouldn't say I was particularly leaden footed, to get 15 mpg would require considerable discipline, and cruising at a steady 65 mph or so on the motorway.
I have no idea at all how you'd get 20 mpg out of one.
I have no idea at all how you'd get 20 mpg out of one.
Super Slo Mo said:
I can't believe people are getting 18mpg from them. I had a Discovery 4.0 a while back, and have used and worked with the 4.0 Series II versions. Neither (not even when new) would get above 15 mpg, not unless you got out and pushed anyway. I think I averaged around 13 mpg overall, possibly up to 15 or so on a run. And I wouldn't say I was particularly leaden footed, to get 15 mpg would require considerable discipline, and cruising at a steady 65 mph or so on the motorway.
I have no idea at all how you'd get 20 mpg out of one.
Indeed - My 4.6 was getting around 12-13 commuting the station and back - which is worse case because the car barely warmed up before arriving. I have no idea at all how you'd get 20 mpg out of one.
My commute is 18 miles, and at the times of day I travel, I generally miss the traffic - hence generally I sit at 55-60 (boring, I know!) on A roads.
For petrol, I am going on what the computer is telling me.
For gas, I can get 250-300 miles out of a 90 litre tank (75 litres useable) Based on 4.54 litres to the gallon, works out at 15.1 - 18.2
Obviously if I don't drive like Miss Daisy, then these figures reduce!
For petrol, I am going on what the computer is telling me.
For gas, I can get 250-300 miles out of a 90 litre tank (75 litres useable) Based on 4.54 litres to the gallon, works out at 15.1 - 18.2
Obviously if I don't drive like Miss Daisy, then these figures reduce!
Meeja said:
My commute is 18 miles, and at the times of day I travel, I generally miss the traffic - hence generally I sit at 55-60 (boring, I know!) on A roads.
For petrol, I am going on what the computer is telling me.
For gas, I can get 250-300 miles out of a 90 litre tank (75 litres useable) Based on 4.54 litres to the gallon, works out at 15.1 - 18.2
Obviously if I don't drive like Miss Daisy, then these figures reduce!
Hi Meeja,For petrol, I am going on what the computer is telling me.
For gas, I can get 250-300 miles out of a 90 litre tank (75 litres useable) Based on 4.54 litres to the gallon, works out at 15.1 - 18.2
Obviously if I don't drive like Miss Daisy, then these figures reduce!
So at current LPG rates is that an effective 25-30mpg do you reckon when compared to petrol?
Would anyone recommend the diesels, by the way?
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