Twisted Torque

[Court Jester]

My wife has seen an 06 plate Defender 90 TD5 with a twisted torque typhoon upgrade adding 100 bhp to stock. I just wondered if anyone had any experience of these and if so what the reliability was?

Am new to this so any help is appreciated

Edited by Court Jester on Monday 8th March 22:15

[Court Jester]

p.s. Any ideas why I get the red grumpy smiley on the index page? Don't think I asked for it, but I can't turn it off!!!

[A.J.M]

I have a twisted remap on my freelander if that helps?

Ive found its good for power and torque, but smokey when full throttle is used. Not sure if it has helped improve my fuel figures when taking it easily though..

Also its moved the "on boost" part of the rev range from 1750 to 2250 and below that 2250 it is a bit dead, think a uprated intercooler may help it.

I am toying with the idea of getting it removed and having a je enginnering map fitted im place as im not 100% happy with it and the claimed 157bhp feels a few horses short.

A rolling road will no doubt tell the full story but until then i remain a bit doubtfull.

[West4x4]

100bhp extra thats a big increase be more than a remap be a huge intercooler and a hybrid turbo there to. Main problem is warping exhaust manifold turbo hoses would be liable to burst due to the increased boost it must be running. I'd ring twisted performance with the reg to see what work has been done

[gavm5]

West4x4 said:

100bhp extra thats a big increase be more than a remap be a huge intercooler and a hybrid turbo there to. Main problem is warping exhaust manifold turbo hoses would be liable to burst due to the increased boost it must be running. I'd ring twisted performance with the reg to see what work has been done

Agreed that this seems a very optimistic increase as even with a hybrid turbo fitted I believe that 200bhp is only just broken.
Suppose it depends on which rolling road has determined the power output as these can also be way out with figures making questionable power gains.
Not saying that its not acheivable and I am very interested as to how the extra 100bhp would have been gained above standard, as mentioned already a huge intercooler, hybrid turbo along with a very aggresive remap.
Does the 90 "smoke" much when driven ?

[300bhp/ton]

gavm5 said:

Does the 90 "smoke" much when driven ?

If it's diesel and doesn't smoke, then something ain't right

[gavm5]

300bhp/ton said:

gavm5 said:

Does the 90 "smoke" much when driven ?

If it's diesel and doesn't smoke, then something ain't right

correctamundo, however a lot do smoke more if they have been set up to overfuel when chasing power gains

[300bhp/ton]

gavm5 said:

300bhp/ton said:

gavm5 said:

Does the 90 "smoke" much when driven ?

If it's diesel and doesn't smoke, then something ain't right

correctamundo, however a lot do smoke more if they have been set up to overfuel when chasing power gains

But that's all part of diesel tuning. In it's simplest form, chuck as much fuel through the engine as you can without either:

a) melting anything
b) looking like powerstation

More fuel = more smoke which also = more power.

Could be worse, could smoke like this:

[Ranger 6]

Court Jester said:

...with a twisted torque typhoon upgrade....

A quick google shows nothing found - however Twisted Performance do a Typhoon exhaust (which I doubt would give 10bhp let alone 100bhp) but here: http://www.twistedperformance.co.uk/products/produ... the show various upgrades which includes the Typhoon exhaust - the Force 10 would give good power but I'm sceptical of the claimed 100bhp increase without an RR plot.

[gavm5]

300bhp/ton said:

gavm5 said:

300bhp/ton said:

gavm5 said:

Does the 90 "smoke" much when driven ?

If it's diesel and doesn't smoke, then something ain't right

correctamundo, however a lot do smoke more if they have been set up to overfuel when chasing power gains

But that's all part of diesel tuning. In it's simplest form, chuck as much fuel through the engine as you can without either:

a) melting anything
b) looking like powerstation

More fuel = more smoke which also = more power.

Upto a point yes, but very crude and as you mention melting something could prove disaster.
A proper remap should give creditable power gains whilst staying withing smoke limits.
I am just awaiting a new intercooler to be fabricated by IRB Developments and will then have one of thier "stage 2" remaps uploaded which be should be good for 185 bhp 393 Nm Torques whilst remaining within safe tolerances for the Td5

[Court Jester]

Hi, thanks for all your responses. Took up Ranger's suggestion and called Twisted Torque.

TT were very helpful. Apparently with the full monty conversion 200bhp is possible - that involves new Intercoolers, re map ... and costs about £2800 if anyone is interested. He said it continues to pull low down as well and driven 'sensibly' MPG can improve, but obviously falls if driven as you may want to with the extra grunt!!!

Anyway bit academic, apparently it is now sold, but the hunt goes on. Thanks again for all your help on this

[gavm5]

Court Jester said:

Hi, thanks for all your responses. Took up Ranger's suggestion and called Twisted Torque.

TT were very helpful. Apparently with the full monty conversion 200bhp is possible - that involves new Intercoolers, re map ... and costs about £2800 if anyone is interested. He said it continues to pull low down as well and driven 'sensibly' MPG can improve, but obviously falls if driven as you may want to with the extra grunt!!!

Anyway bit academic, apparently it is now sold, but the hunt goes on. Thanks again for all your help on this

So thats 78 bhp over stock then ?
Fairly comparable to what other companies offer for the same sort of modifiactions.
Are you particularly looking for a modified one ? I bought a standard Td5 and can then choose which way to go with mods afterwards.

[Ranger 6]

Good result then Jester!
Twisted do appear to have a reputation for doing a good package. Their demo car won the 'Fastest Land Rover' or something a few months ago.

[West4x4]

I thought about getting my TD5 enhanced somehow. After speaking to the major players i chose IRB nice guy not so interested in paper power figures like some of the others more about how the vehicle drives on your requirements if you do towing off road work then its all about low down torque not top end power . But i decided that i was happy without as i felt i then would of had to raise the gearing as well to make use of the extra power.

[300bhp/ton]

West4x4 said:

I thought about getting my TD5 enhanced somehow. After speaking to the major players i chose IRB nice guy not so interested in paper power figures like some of the others more about how the vehicle drives on your requirements if you do towing off road work then its all about low down torque not top end power . But i decided that i was happy without as i felt i then would of had to raise the gearing as well to make use of the extra power.

Surely that's the wrong way round with the gearing for any ither vehicle you'd look at shorter gearing as a performance enhancement. But for some strange reason in the Landy world people want to spend hundreds or thousands on more hp to then blunt the performance gain with taller gearing

[Bish]

I had a Twisted re-map was great and they were very good to deal with.

In the end settled with a TD5 Alive one, boost box, silicone pipes, massive intecooler and straight through exhaust. It was a real laugh. No reliability issues.I was running about 185 to 190 bhp. 200bhp from a re-map is impossible..........needs hybrid turbos etc fitted and a 'friendly' rolling road.

I did not fit longer gears......as did not want to dull performance........so spent a bloody fortune on a GKN overdrive which I used as 6th basically..........could cruise at silly speeds for a Defender!

[gavm5]

Bish said:

I had a Twisted re-map was great and they were very good to deal with.

In the end settled with a TD5 Alive one, boost box, silicone pipes, massive intecooler and straight through exhaust. It was a real laugh. No reliability issues.I was running about 185 to 190 bhp. 200bhp from a re-map is impossible..........needs hybrid turbos etc fitted and a 'friendly' rolling road.

I did not fit longer gears......as did not want to dull performance........so spent a bloody fortune on a GKN overdrive which I used as 6th basically..........could cruise at silly speeds for a Defender!

Thanks for that Bish, this is what I want to hear !
I take it keeping the standard gear ratios means that the acceleration is pretty sharp with those mods ?

[300bhp/ton]

gavm5 said:

Bish said:

I had a Twisted re-map was great and they were very good to deal with.

In the end settled with a TD5 Alive one, boost box, silicone pipes, massive intecooler and straight through exhaust. It was a real laugh. No reliability issues.I was running about 185 to 190 bhp. 200bhp from a re-map is impossible..........needs hybrid turbos etc fitted and a 'friendly' rolling road.

I did not fit longer gears......as did not want to dull performance........so spent a bloody fortune on a GKN overdrive which I used as 6th basically..........could cruise at silly speeds for a Defender!

Thanks for that Bish, this is what I want to hear !
I take it keeping the standard gear ratios means that the acceleration is pretty sharp with those mods ?

The 90 is not really that heavy, especially if a hard top or basic pick up.

So they will have a fairly descent power to weight ratio. Also as they are turbo diesel they'll give you a real whack in the back with a big dollop or torque, so the seat of the pants feel will be pretty good and possibly make it feel faster than it truly is, although it should have enough at that level to upset a number of more regular cars.

I don't run a TD5, but I've got a modded Tdi, est making 150hp+ in a basic Disco 1. So a bit less power and a bit more weight. It goes quite well and enough to over take and cruise at higher speeds with a very nice power delivery. In fact its rather addictive.


As for gearing, all Land Rover's since being perm AWD run 3.54:1 diff axles.

The LT77 and R380 5 speed gearboxes have had slight internal revisions over the years, but not enough to really make any odds.

Tyres are then your next thing. Traditionally Disco's and some RR's came on fairly small tyres in terms of diameter, ~28"

Defenders also had small wheels if on 205 section tyres, but could also be specced on much taller tyres, about 32" diameter.

The other difference is the transfer box.

Disco's use a different high range ratio to a Defender:

Disco = 1.41:1
Defender = 1.22:1


What it means is the Defender has a lower terminal speed in gear. So cruising at 70mph will require more rpms.

But the plus side is it should accelerate quicker and is more suited to towing.

Example:


Disco on 28" tyres @ 70mph = 3000rpm
Defender on 28" tyres @ 70mph = 3500rpm


But strangely enough (wink wink ) if you have some 32" tall tyres on the Defender you get this@

Defender on 32" tyres @ 70mph = 3000rpm


The biggest difference will actually be in top speed. If you run big tyres and the tallest gearing then assuming you can reach max rpms in top and are not aero limited. You'll have a higher top speed.

e.g.

Disco gearing with 32" tyres @ 70mph = 2750rpm

Cruising rpm's will also be lower and probably better mpg. But it will be at the off set of slower acceleration and not quite as responsive a drive.


More power does NOT mean you need taller gearing. And if you're tuning means it pushes the power up the rpm band a bit, shorter gearing will actually help keep the vehicle in it's power band better.

But it does come down to what you want.

[gavm5]

Very comprehensive response there 300bhp/ton - thankyou.

My Defender is an 2005 XS spec 110 station wagon, I presume the gearing (standard) is the same as a 90 ?
It has standard XS boost alloys with the 235/85-16 General Grabbers

Surely upping the power to 185 from the standard 122 will be noyicable, but I would rather have a more linear delivery than the big bang that I get in my Wifes subaru impreza

[300bhp/ton]

gavm5 said:

Very comprehensive response there 300bhp/ton - thankyou.

My Defender is an 2005 XS spec 110 station wagon, I presume the gearing (standard) is the same as a 90 ?
It has standard XS boost alloys with the 235/85-16 General Grabbers

Surely upping the power to 185 from the standard 122 will be noyicable, but I would rather have a more linear delivery than the big bang that I get in my Wifes subaru impreza

Yep, sorry. 90, 110, 127 and 130 all same as Defender, as that's what they are, just earlier incarnations without the name branding.

The only difference is factory V8's used the 5 speed LT85 gearbox. All others used the LT77 5 speed gearbox up until about ~93/94 when they swapped to the R380 5 speed box. New Puma powered Tdci ones use a Ford Transit 6 speed but still the same LT230 transfer box with the same ratio's I believe.

Internal gearing on the gearboxes is slightly different and underwent a few variations depending on year. But it's all much of a muchness really.

Your tyres are about 32" tall, so despite the Defender gearing, it runs the same mph/1000rpm as a stock 200 or 300Tdi Discovery on standard wheels.

A remap will make a huge difference.

I'm personally a huge fan of the TD5 motor, but the LR stock tune is pretty rubbish if honest and especially in the Defender compared to a Disco II. A re-map should make it smoother and much better at low rpms, but it should give you quite a shove when on boost. Shouldn't be as bad as a Scooby as it'll be boosting much lower in the rpms, but it will alter how it drives compared to stock. But I would be very surprised if you didn't like it