Poorly Range Rover Classic - battery or alternator?
Discussion
Hi there,
Had my RRC for less than a week now, and had a few issues when I picked it up including a tempramental speedo and dead fuel gauge - more details [url=http://www.pistonheads.com/xforums/topic.asp?h=0&f=91&t=925280&mid=53282&nmt=Bought%20it!%20%22My%20first%20Range%20Rover%22%20a%20Classic%20Vogue%20SE%20%28pics!%29=HERE![/url]
Anyway, tonight was the first time I had driven it in really cold weather (well, I mean below 2'C!) and when I started it the red battery light stayed on for the entire journey, and the rev counter decided to stop working for the first time. So I kept the minimum on - heater and headlights - and carried on my journey. Stopped for fuel, started OK. Stopped longer to see some mates, started fine again, drove home and on the way the back the ABS light started flickering at random, both when braking (lightly) and then whilst just driving along. The the headlights got gradually dimmer, the ABS light stayed on permanently and the speedo joined the rev counter and fuel gauge in retiring. Just about got home without the car dying, but by that time the only gauge which was working was the engine temp and the headlights were a lot dimmer than usual.
So, I'm guessing this is all electrical related, but is it likely to be battery or alternator, or something else completely? I really like the car and I know they have plenty of character, but would still like to get it sorted! Any thoughts?
Had my RRC for less than a week now, and had a few issues when I picked it up including a tempramental speedo and dead fuel gauge - more details [url=http://www.pistonheads.com/xforums/topic.asp?h=0&f=91&t=925280&mid=53282&nmt=Bought%20it!%20%22My%20first%20Range%20Rover%22%20a%20Classic%20Vogue%20SE%20%28pics!%29=HERE![/url]
Anyway, tonight was the first time I had driven it in really cold weather (well, I mean below 2'C!) and when I started it the red battery light stayed on for the entire journey, and the rev counter decided to stop working for the first time. So I kept the minimum on - heater and headlights - and carried on my journey. Stopped for fuel, started OK. Stopped longer to see some mates, started fine again, drove home and on the way the back the ABS light started flickering at random, both when braking (lightly) and then whilst just driving along. The the headlights got gradually dimmer, the ABS light stayed on permanently and the speedo joined the rev counter and fuel gauge in retiring. Just about got home without the car dying, but by that time the only gauge which was working was the engine temp and the headlights were a lot dimmer than usual.
So, I'm guessing this is all electrical related, but is it likely to be battery or alternator, or something else completely? I really like the car and I know they have plenty of character, but would still like to get it sorted! Any thoughts?
Definately sounds like alternator. You were running on the battery which was not being charged. As battery starts to fail, stuff stops working. The good news is that it is really easy to change. Not expensive either. My top tip is to keep jumpleads in the motor. I was always leaving the lights on in my RRC.
Rev counter feed is on W post on alternator.
Rev counter feed is on W post on alternator.
Mike_C said:
Hi there,
Had my RRC for less than a week now, and had a few issues when I picked it up including a tempramental speedo and dead fuel gauge - more details [url=http://www.pistonheads.com/xforums/topic.asp?h=0&f=91&t=925280&mid=53282&nmt=Bought%20it!%20%22My%20first%20Range%20Rover%22%20a%20Classic%20Vogue%20SE%20%28pics!%29=HERE![/url]
Anyway, tonight was the first time I had driven it in really cold weather (well, I mean below 2'C!) and when I started it the red battery light stayed on for the entire journey, and the rev counter decided to stop working for the first time. So I kept the minimum on - heater and headlights - and carried on my journey. Stopped for fuel, started OK. Stopped longer to see some mates, started fine again, drove home and on the way the back the ABS light started flickering at random, both when braking (lightly) and then whilst just driving along. The the headlights got gradually dimmer, the ABS light stayed on permanently and the speedo joined the rev counter and fuel gauge in retiring. Just about got home without the car dying, but by that time the only gauge which was working was the engine temp and the headlights were a lot dimmer than usual.
So, I'm guessing this is all electrical related, but is it likely to be battery or alternator, or something else completely? I really like the car and I know they have plenty of character, but would still like to get it sorted! Any thoughts?
The rev counter is run off the alternator.Had my RRC for less than a week now, and had a few issues when I picked it up including a tempramental speedo and dead fuel gauge - more details [url=http://www.pistonheads.com/xforums/topic.asp?h=0&f=91&t=925280&mid=53282&nmt=Bought%20it!%20%22My%20first%20Range%20Rover%22%20a%20Classic%20Vogue%20SE%20%28pics!%29=HERE![/url]
Anyway, tonight was the first time I had driven it in really cold weather (well, I mean below 2'C!) and when I started it the red battery light stayed on for the entire journey, and the rev counter decided to stop working for the first time. So I kept the minimum on - heater and headlights - and carried on my journey. Stopped for fuel, started OK. Stopped longer to see some mates, started fine again, drove home and on the way the back the ABS light started flickering at random, both when braking (lightly) and then whilst just driving along. The the headlights got gradually dimmer, the ABS light stayed on permanently and the speedo joined the rev counter and fuel gauge in retiring. Just about got home without the car dying, but by that time the only gauge which was working was the engine temp and the headlights were a lot dimmer than usual.
So, I'm guessing this is all electrical related, but is it likely to be battery or alternator, or something else completely? I really like the car and I know they have plenty of character, but would still like to get it sorted! Any thoughts?
What is interesting is that so long as the alternator is doing something then it will run the rev counter, the fact that you watched it stop working seems to imply that this was the moment that your altaernator gave up the ghost.
You usually only see the rev counter suddenly go when the fan belt shreds itself but with all the other symptons it does seem to point to a slowly dying alternator which has since expired rather than a battery giving up.
Others will know more but I wouldn't have thought it at all complicated to test the output and if it is kapput to pick up a new one and fit yourself.
Good luck, because when they run properly they are superb wagons, especially this time of year.
Easy to test. Multimeter on one of the main posts (ideally on the post which has the wire running to the starter motor.
Should get about 13.7V or higher.
If only getting 12 or lower then it is fubar'd.
If getting 13.7 at alternator, check across the battery +ve to ground with engine at about 2000 rpm. Again should get nearly 14 v. If not then could be wiring from alternator to starter motor or from starter to battery or dodgy earth cable on battery or on engine to chassis.
Could be a duff battery as well if it has been deep cycled too many times.
Should get about 13.7V or higher.
If only getting 12 or lower then it is fubar'd.
If getting 13.7 at alternator, check across the battery +ve to ground with engine at about 2000 rpm. Again should get nearly 14 v. If not then could be wiring from alternator to starter motor or from starter to battery or dodgy earth cable on battery or on engine to chassis.
Could be a duff battery as well if it has been deep cycled too many times.
Bad luck Mike hope you get it sorted.
All I'd add is if you test across the battery with it running put something electrical on too - lights, rear screen etc. The alternator will probably work as well at idle as when reved but isn't doing much until it is put under load.
If it measures towards high 13s the alternator should be ok.
All I'd add is if you test across the battery with it running put something electrical on too - lights, rear screen etc. The alternator will probably work as well at idle as when reved but isn't doing much until it is put under load.
If it measures towards high 13s the alternator should be ok.
Edited by DKL on Thursday 11th November 12:50
Hi guys,
Thanks for all the replies! Turns out the alternator belt had perished and snapped, which I see as good news, as it is only a £6 item and 5 minute job to swap - great!!
Hopefully the fuel guage might now work and the speedo too, but we'll see...
Still love the car, it's got character if nothing else!!
Thanks for all the replies! Turns out the alternator belt had perished and snapped, which I see as good news, as it is only a £6 item and 5 minute job to swap - great!!
Hopefully the fuel guage might now work and the speedo too, but we'll see...
Still love the car, it's got character if nothing else!!
Fuel guages are a b
h.
Under the carpet in the boot there is an inspection hatch open that and you see the top of the fuel pump/sender unit. take the sender lead off and connect it to earth. Should send the guage to full. if that is ok then it is in the sender unit.
You need to depresurise the fuel system by pulling a relay under the drivers seat. Undo the fuel pipes on the pump and remove the unit.
You can then do a bench test on the sender.
The real bind is you may have to replace the whole unit.
h.Under the carpet in the boot there is an inspection hatch open that and you see the top of the fuel pump/sender unit. take the sender lead off and connect it to earth. Should send the guage to full. if that is ok then it is in the sender unit.
You need to depresurise the fuel system by pulling a relay under the drivers seat. Undo the fuel pipes on the pump and remove the unit.
You can then do a bench test on the sender.
The real bind is you may have to replace the whole unit.
Excellent news - nice easy fix to get you moving again.
Nothing more frustrating than a new car that won't go.
At least it wasn't you doing anything daft - first day after buying the 21, jumped in and the engine span and span but wouldn't start. I thought all sorts.
Eventually I remembered to switch the immobiliser off.......
Nothing more frustrating than a new car that won't go.
At least it wasn't you doing anything daft - first day after buying the 21, jumped in and the engine span and span but wouldn't start. I thought all sorts.
Eventually I remembered to switch the immobiliser off.......
Mike_C said:
Hi guys,
Thanks for all the replies! Turns out the alternator belt had perished and snapped, which I see as good news, as it is only a £6 item and 5 minute job to swap - great!!
Hopefully the fuel guage might now work and the speedo too, but we'll see...
Still love the car, it's got character if nothing else!!
Excellent. I nearly mentioned that but on mine it takes out the power steering at the same time so you are well aware of the issue Thanks for all the replies! Turns out the alternator belt had perished and snapped, which I see as good news, as it is only a £6 item and 5 minute job to swap - great!!
Hopefully the fuel guage might now work and the speedo too, but we'll see...
Still love the car, it's got character if nothing else!!
Not sure if Rovers are running the same way as my twin belt set-up.
Well, was a day with mixed results! My £250 bill got me:
- Welding 4 holes in the boot floor - did a really neat job too!!
- Full flush of cooling system - boy did it need it!
- New alternator belt + fitting - rev counter and speedo now work again!
- Fitted new upper tailgate struts (didn't ask him too, but he got fed up of being hit on the head whilst welding the floor!)
However, there are still a few outstanding issues I need to sort:
- Fuel gauage still doesn't work
- Sunroof headlining has come away and I need to get a fix for this
- Exhaust manifold - the driver's side one is blowing, making a loud ticking noise that doesnt go away even when the engine is warm. Only really noticeable under acceleration, but the mechanic did warn me that if left they can blow the head gasket on that bank - is this true?
Given they look to be the original manifolds, who would you recommend for replacements? I guess if I'm changing them it would be worth putting a sports manifold and system on there, and sell the standard system (which is in good nick) on Ebay. Any recommendations? Rimmer Bros do a full system for £479, but that's a bit too rich for my liking!!
- Welding 4 holes in the boot floor - did a really neat job too!!
- Full flush of cooling system - boy did it need it!
- New alternator belt + fitting - rev counter and speedo now work again!
- Fitted new upper tailgate struts (didn't ask him too, but he got fed up of being hit on the head whilst welding the floor!)
However, there are still a few outstanding issues I need to sort:
- Fuel gauage still doesn't work
- Sunroof headlining has come away and I need to get a fix for this
- Exhaust manifold - the driver's side one is blowing, making a loud ticking noise that doesnt go away even when the engine is warm. Only really noticeable under acceleration, but the mechanic did warn me that if left they can blow the head gasket on that bank - is this true?
Given they look to be the original manifolds, who would you recommend for replacements? I guess if I'm changing them it would be worth putting a sports manifold and system on there, and sell the standard system (which is in good nick) on Ebay. Any recommendations? Rimmer Bros do a full system for £479, but that's a bit too rich for my liking!!
OK, that's good to know! Having had a look at the bolts, they're pretty rusty and corroded so I don't think tightening them up is going to be a option - hopefully I could unbolt them all, fit a new gasket and a new bolt set and maybe that would cure it? Assuming it is the gasket that is blowing, not the manifold itself...
I think that it would be statistically much less likely to be an actual hole in the manifold.
You could just listen for where the leak is with the old length of tubing trick but usually as you can get to pretty much the whole of this part of the engine by sight and ear you can find the leak quite quickly.
Look on the brightside, it gives you your louder exhaust
You could just listen for where the leak is with the old length of tubing trick but usually as you can get to pretty much the whole of this part of the engine by sight and ear you can find the leak quite quickly.
Look on the brightside, it gives you your louder exhaust
Unfortunately it doesn't give the V8 noise I'm after, it just gives an annoying ticking noise, like really noisey tappets in an early 90's Fiesta!! Ugh!
What's the 'old tube' trick?? But yes, you can see the manifold well - another job for the weekend, along with checking the spark plugs, uprating the headlmap bulbs and fixing the fuel gauage. Fun fun fun!
What's the 'old tube' trick?? But yes, you can see the manifold well - another job for the weekend, along with checking the spark plugs, uprating the headlmap bulbs and fixing the fuel gauage. Fun fun fun!
Mike_C said:
Unfortunately it doesn't give the V8 noise I'm after, it just gives an annoying ticking noise, like really noisey tappets in an early 90's Fiesta!! Ugh!
What's the 'old tube' trick?? But yes, you can see the manifold well - another job for the weekend, along with checking the spark plugs, uprating the headlmap bulbs and fixing the fuel gauage. Fun fun fun!
You just use it as a stethoscope to pinpoint the leak.What's the 'old tube' trick?? But yes, you can see the manifold well - another job for the weekend, along with checking the spark plugs, uprating the headlmap bulbs and fixing the fuel gauage. Fun fun fun!
My two pence...
When I bought mine it was running 5/6 cylinders. Anyway a whole day was spent with the seller trying to sort it. After some dodgy re-wiring we got it working on all cylinders.
When back in London start-up was a struggle everytime (I had to go past the point at which you think 'oh shoot I'm about to flood the engine' for her to catch). Battery light on and off, dim and fully lit, Suspension warning light constantly coming on, etc, etc.
Thanks to Bish I was put in touch with Quadratech and John there as I knew I'd have real probs when the cold weather came in I wanted to get her sorted. As previously checked the alternator was charging at the correct V and on the face of it that didn't seem to be the problem, but I always had this niggling feeling that it was the alt.
After exhausting all other possibilities we changed the alt and it sorted everything. Correct charging doesn't indicate a healthy alt it seems.
As it turns out mine was a half reconditioned/half not appropriate alt for the car!
My point is simply that alts cause a lot of probs on Classics and because they 'seem' to be working doesn't mean they are.
Cheap off Rimmer Bros if you order - easy fitting.
Good luck and welcome to the never ending cash pit that classics are (John told me to treat it like a boat - kepp it repaired, pay the bills and file them away somewhere you'll never find them and forget the money!)
When I bought mine it was running 5/6 cylinders. Anyway a whole day was spent with the seller trying to sort it. After some dodgy re-wiring we got it working on all cylinders.
When back in London start-up was a struggle everytime (I had to go past the point at which you think 'oh shoot I'm about to flood the engine' for her to catch). Battery light on and off, dim and fully lit, Suspension warning light constantly coming on, etc, etc.
Thanks to Bish I was put in touch with Quadratech and John there as I knew I'd have real probs when the cold weather came in I wanted to get her sorted. As previously checked the alternator was charging at the correct V and on the face of it that didn't seem to be the problem, but I always had this niggling feeling that it was the alt.
After exhausting all other possibilities we changed the alt and it sorted everything. Correct charging doesn't indicate a healthy alt it seems.
As it turns out mine was a half reconditioned/half not appropriate alt for the car!
My point is simply that alts cause a lot of probs on Classics and because they 'seem' to be working doesn't mean they are.
Cheap off Rimmer Bros if you order - easy fitting.
Good luck and welcome to the never ending cash pit that classics are (John told me to treat it like a boat - kepp it repaired, pay the bills and file them away somewhere you'll never find them and forget the money!
)Gassing Station | Land Rover | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff