change of land use

[slipstream 1985]

Once planning permission is given for land to be used i understand as long as it is in a similar catagory you don't need permission. However my question is changing from one type to another say agricultural to business is it easier for the current owner to apply for the change?

The sitation is im looking at some land that has permission for holiday homes on it. I am looking at buying it for light commercial. Will it be more favourable for the current owner to get it changed then sell it to me or better for me to buy it and then apply for the change of use?

There are no ecological drawbacks of either plan infact there would be less disruption, traffic and construction changes as light industrial rather than holiday homes.

[HoHoHo]

I'm aware a new government policy was introduced last year to encourage change of use of agricultural buildings to other commercial uses having just added one to my portfolio of commercial property.

In short depending on size there is a sliding scale of planning permission that is necessary from the local council albeit at the smallest size of building (0-160m2) they must be aware and accept change of use in writing. Took me a four months of discussions to convince my local council this policy existed and to gain their concent in writing. Also bear in mind councis are not obliged to follow government policy and may refuse..........amazing!

That said I'm not sure if it also applies to land, but might be worth a look?

[Cyberprog]

If you had the seller apply for change of use, and made the sale conditional on getting that use changed, then you stand to lose nothing. If they can't get the change of use, you don't have to buy the land.

[Quattromaster]

As someone who has so far spent almost 60k, seeking permission to use a bit of land as a building yd, when it's been a building yd for 20 yrs, and been charged business rates for the pleasure, work on the theory that councils are thick.

They said to me 2 yrs ago that my yd was not a building yd, this despite the locals who lived nr by, and parish council chairman signing court papers saying it had been since the 80s.

When I then said, ok, I'll stop paying the business rates, they replied, no, you must keep paying those as you are running a business. Ie a building company.

One dept says yes you are, other dept says no your not.

Muppets the lot of em and I don't envy you OP, what ever route you go down.

[slipstream 1985]

Cyberprog said:

If you had the seller apply for change of use, and made the sale conditional on getting that use changed, then you stand to lose nothing. If they can't get the change of use, you don't have to buy the land.

Good advice. However it seems reading through the documents the seller had to show a business plan as to how the change of use from agricultural to holiday letting was financially viable. Given that his application to change would require details from my business plan im obviously not happy if i had to reveal this info.

I need to clarify the above point incase it was a third party company that was interested in the land but it seemed strange that either way a party had to reveal parts of their business plan to obtain planning permission for change.

One of the documents alluded that the return on investment was very low (I believe this was between the client and their solicitor) to which the reply was "councils dont like to see high profits" so the figure could have been shown to be low in order to help it through the planning stage. is this common practice?

[quinny100]

In this case it really depends if the holiday lets have been granted on the basis of farm diversification, for which there is plenty of positive policy, or if the Council has looked at it as a standalone business. The fact there is a financial appraisal suggests there may be some doubt as to the viability.

Generally, holiday cottages are a more difficult to get consent for than a bit of light commercial because holiday lets can be used as a back door to dwellings in areas they would not normally be permitted. However if it's undeveloped agricultural land, and your light commercial enterprise is not agriculture related, you will probably at the very least need to demonstrate there are no sequentially preferable sites (existing light commercial unit, brownfield site etc). If you're creating a bit of rural employment, that might go in your favour.

[quinny100]

Quattromaster said:

They said to me 2 yrs ago that my yd was not a building yd, this despite the locals who lived nr by, and parish council chairman signing court papers saying it had been since the 80s.

So presumably whoever has charged you £60k applied for a Certificate of Lawfulness for an existing use/development and submitted the evidence you've outlined? On what grounds was it refused? If it's as open and shut as you state, then surely you appealed to the Planning Inspectorate? Did they refuse it as well?

Planning policy doesn't come in to consideration for a CLEUD application - it's merely an evidence based test to see if you can prove the use has existed for more than 4 years. This should take no more effort than completing the form, a few affadavits, maybe some old photographs, copies of delivery notes from the builders merchants showing deliveries over the past few years etc.

I suspect there's more to this than you've stated. A wild guess, but are the Council suggesting an intensification of the use of the yard has occurred to the extent that it amounts to a material change of use, and have told you you need planning permission?