Software Developers working alone
Discussion
How many one-man bands are out there? I work on my own and it's not good for developing new skills. I have to look at different technologies and decide whether it's worth my time to climb the learning curve.
I had a thought last night that if there were enough of us out there then we could benefit from sharing experiences.
I had a thought last night that if there were enough of us out there then we could benefit from sharing experiences.
From the technological point of view I'm more or less on my own at the moment, but I do have a couple of people who don't mind having wacky ideas bounced off them. Problem is that commercial pressure puts training/education on the back burner so its very difficult to keep up with new technology and methods, let alone get familiar enough to take full advantage of them. It's a shame .NET didn't come out three or four years earlier, would have saved me an awful lot of work.
PetrolTed said:
.NET is a good example. I've looked at it and haven't been convinced yet. It'd be useful to meet some other developers and have it explained/debated.
Have a look at .NET 2.0 its part of the dev studio 2005 due out 1/2 next year. basicaly its awsome. does lots of things that everyone writes code to do. such as site membership.
ASP.NET is very good, I have written stuff in ASP and ASP.NET, and once you get the hang of .NET its a doddle to put things togehter, it also makes writing reusable code easier.
The nicese thing I found with Devstudio.NET is the designer uses the same type of system that C and VB programmers had for years..
ADO.NET on the other hand is another story...
If you wish to have a look at the new stuff like .NET and can make it Microsofts DEV week is worth a visit
>> Edited by pebbledash on Friday 24th December 10:57
>> Edited by pebbledash on Friday 24th December 10:58
PetrolTed said:
.NET is a good example. I've looked at it and haven't been convinced yet. It'd be useful to meet some other developers and have it explained/debated.
We're in the same position. We *intend* to migrate to .NET next year as our Interdev based development environment is creaking...
A lot of our code is going to have to remain in ".asp" VBScript though.
That and we use custom middleware (which I wrote) so that we can execute SQL queries from JavaScript and even call server side ASP scripts from JavaScript without needing to do a page-turnaround.
We're looking at .NET with its massive communications overhead to retain state and the huge number of turnarounds even a simple user interface requires somewhat suspiciously.
Although we'd like the benefit of "compiled" server side "pages". And I'd certainly like to migrate from VBScript (utter shite) over to C# (not too bad at first glance).
If you *do* plan on migrating Ted, and we continue on and change over next year, I'd be interested in swapping tales.
A LOT of what makes one productive in a new environment is learning what works, what doesn't and the best design strategy for any module you are making given the limitations of the development environment. Its very hard to learn that from anything other than experience...or the experiences of others...
Pebbledash - this is my point really. I've bought the books and spent a lot of time trying to get up to speed. I've also seen plenty of people on forums explain briefly why it's good but that's no substitute for having a chat with someone in the flesh for 30 mins with the benefit of a whiteboard.
Whether it's .NET or MYSQL or linking up with mobile phones or whatever - I think there are quite a few of us out there that could improve our lot (and save a huge amount of time on research) by sharing our experiences. A lot of us no longer have the benefit of working with other developers and sharing techniques/experiences.
If there was enough interest and it was geographically possible I'd like to get some developers together in the real world.
Whether it's .NET or MYSQL or linking up with mobile phones or whatever - I think there are quite a few of us out there that could improve our lot (and save a huge amount of time on research) by sharing our experiences. A lot of us no longer have the benefit of working with other developers and sharing techniques/experiences.
If there was enough interest and it was geographically possible I'd like to get some developers together in the real world.
Don said:
That and we use custom middleware (which I wrote) so that we can execute SQL queries from JavaScript and even call server side ASP scripts from JavaScript without needing to do a page-turnaround.
We're looking at .NET with its massive communications overhead to retain state and the huge number of turnarounds even a simple user interface requires somewhat suspiciously.
Yup there is a little of this, but you can write, web service components to overcome the interaction, this prevents the whole page round trips, ASP.NET is very good at componentising things, but it does take a different programming strattegy, also miking ASP and ASP.NET can become a head ache, both play in different sandpits, while it is possible to move vars etc between the two, its not done as default, as far as I have found the environments are TOTALY seperate..
PetrolTed said:
Pebbledash - this is my point really. I've bought the books and spent a lot of time trying to get up to speed. I've also seen plenty of people on forums explain briefly why it's good but that's no substitute for having a chat with someone in the flesh for 30 mins with the benefit of a whiteboard.
the problem I have found is if you stop for a short while and switch to another task, you forget, and staying up to speed is a headache, at the moment I am doing mu IT Job, programming has taken a back seat, but I am sure when i get back to the web stuff again soon, I will have to relearn bits 
and at the moment I am just not doing enough Web development to stay on top of it, however I do have two projects in the boiler, which will require the use of ASP.NET and will be a good opertunity to start from scratch and really use the power of .NET without having any legacy issues to fudge my way arround.I'm cross-training from C++ to C# at the moment. It's mighty impressive if you can swallow the thought of automatic garbage collection, passing by value and all the other horrible inefficient things that are anathema to an experienced C++ developer but bread-and-butter to VB and Java developers. 
I've been reading ahead on the .NET side of C#, although haven't used it yet, and it does look very good.
I'm currently refactoring my ageing AutoInsult C++ sharware app to be a C# freeware app as a way of gaining experience, and after that plan to write a web app. Perhaps WebInsult?
Edit: I'd be more than happy for a get-together sometime, providing it's geographically viable.
>> Edited by JonRB on Friday 24th December 12:03
I've been reading ahead on the .NET side of C#, although haven't used it yet, and it does look very good.
I'm currently refactoring my ageing AutoInsult C++ sharware app to be a C# freeware app as a way of gaining experience, and after that plan to write a web app. Perhaps WebInsult?
Edit: I'd be more than happy for a get-together sometime, providing it's geographically viable.
>> Edited by JonRB on Friday 24th December 12:03
Me too... been a little diverted towards company management recently, finance etc, but now back in development mode.
Currently migrating a web site to ASP.NET and C#, all relatively new, but lots of experience of C, C++, Java, JavaScript, etc.
Biggest issue is always the first milestone - getting up to speed with the quirks of the technology, idioms of doing things. Sample code is great, and I always find it really worth while spending a bit on books - if a £50 book saves you half a day its more than paid for itself.
Not very well placed for a meet though... unless a DevPH meet was to be 'northwards'.
Neil
Currently migrating a web site to ASP.NET and C#, all relatively new, but lots of experience of C, C++, Java, JavaScript, etc.
Biggest issue is always the first milestone - getting up to speed with the quirks of the technology, idioms of doing things. Sample code is great, and I always find it really worth while spending a bit on books - if a £50 book saves you half a day its more than paid for itself.
Not very well placed for a meet though... unless a DevPH meet was to be 'northwards'.
Neil
JonRB said:
I'm cross-training from C++ to C# at the moment. It's mighty impressive if you can swallow the thought of automatic garbage collection, passing by value and all the other horrible inefficient things that are anathema to an experienced C++ developer but bread-and-butter to VB and Java developers.
Most of them are an athema to experienced Java developers too. Java is a nice idea really poorly done, and peppered with silly mistakes that trip you up as soon as you try to do anything serious. Either Sun are genuinely incompetant, which I find hard to believe (but hey, I never worked there) or their Java development team is staffed with the dregs of their resource pool.
I've barely touched the surface of .NET and I don't like the idea of signing up to the M$ monopoly, but to give them their due when they do something they seem to make a decent job of it.
GreenV8S said:I've come to much the same conclusion myself.
I've barely touched the surface of .NET and I don't like the idea of signing up to the M$ monopoly, but to give them their due when they do something they seem to make a decent job of it.
I thought long and hard before committing myself to learning C# over Java. However, I came to the conclusion that C# would integrate better with my existing C++ and that Microsoft did indeed seem to have come up with something more than just a rehashed proprietary Java-clone (as some people were accusing it of being).
Why not just book yourself on a .NET course?
Essential .Net by Developmentor (www.develop.com/) is a good introduction to .NET with particular reference to C#
Use the technologies, dont just say I need to use C# because its new etc. Right tools for the right job, and you're only in a position to say whether or not the technology meets the need if you've used it (preferably in a commercial environment.)
Cheers,
Steve
Essential .Net by Developmentor (www.develop.com/) is a good introduction to .NET with particular reference to C#
Use the technologies, dont just say I need to use C# because its new etc. Right tools for the right job, and you're only in a position to say whether or not the technology meets the need if you've used it (preferably in a commercial environment.)
Cheers,
Steve
wtd said:Can't speak for anyone else, but as a freelancer a course is a waste of time and money. I'd have the double-whammy of lost income whilst doing the course plus the cost of the course.
Why not just book yourself on a .NET course?
Then consider the fact that the first day is wasted whilst you 'lay the foundations' (ie. bring everyone up to the same level), the fact that they move too slowly and seldom have enough depth, and I'll take a book any time.
Courses are ok if you're a permie and your employer is paying, I guess, but I wouldn't rate them if it's your own time and money.
Contractors resent taking holiday as they call this a double whammy (Not earning money and paying to be there).. I'll leave my views on whining contracters at the door.
A course is great if you want discussions and practicle examples of a technologies strong points (which it sounds like PetrolEd wants)
Cheers,
Steve
A course is great if you want discussions and practicle examples of a technologies strong points (which it sounds like PetrolEd wants)
Cheers,
Steve
JonRB said:
...
the first day is wasted whilst you 'lay the foundations' (ie. bring everyone up to the same level), the fact that they move too slowly and seldom have enough depth, and I'll take a book any time.
...
Completely agree with you here Jon, many of the external courses I've been on fit this pattern and its frustrating as hell. If it was my money, I'd consider it wasted too. The internal courses on the business aspects of my job are far better in terms of content I find. An aside - as a permie, I think the longer you stay on one spot, the more commercially saleable skills you lose (as a techie). Of course freelance you don't get much choice in keeping you skills up to date. I'm interested in picking up new things too, it's been a while since I've got my hands dirty outside my own narrow arena.
Steve.
>> Edited by Steve_T on Wednesday 29th December 16:13
I'm heading back to one-man-bandom in the new year having spent a great year working in a small team in a biggish department (learnt tons ... including relearning VI ... that'll be straight back on my CV). No substitute for bouncing ideas around with people who've got a bit of zip and having specialists whose brains you can pick (e.g., got any cat5 cables i can borrow for home? No, I'm serious, what do DBAs really do all day?). One man bandom will also mean shifting back to developing with Msft tools, so I'd be very interested to talk to some people who've been using .NET in the real world. (Anyone want to hear about Python with a sprinkling of Spyce? No? I'll get my coat...)
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