AST Tenant deposit dispute
Discussion
Hi
Advice neeeded
I have a dispute with a tenant, they have caused at least £1500 worth of damage to the property, I have retained their £895 deposit. They have now started a dispuute with the TDS deposit scheme, I retain the cash, TDS want me to pay the £895 into the scheme while they adjudicate.
The tenants absolutely caused the damage, I sent a letter post a landlords inspection pointing out the damage caused. These tenants approached me wanting to move in as they knew their friends were moving out. I created a new AST and didn't undertake an inventory/condition report when they moved in. They are now claiming all the damage existed when they moved in. I have evidence from contractors as to the state of the place while they were living there.
If I tell the TDS that I'm not going to pay the £895 as I am going after the tenants in the small claims court. My ONLY concern is to protect my credit rating, if I don't co operate with TDS can it cause problems with credit rating.
All help gratefully received
Advice neeeded
I have a dispute with a tenant, they have caused at least £1500 worth of damage to the property, I have retained their £895 deposit. They have now started a dispuute with the TDS deposit scheme, I retain the cash, TDS want me to pay the £895 into the scheme while they adjudicate.
The tenants absolutely caused the damage, I sent a letter post a landlords inspection pointing out the damage caused. These tenants approached me wanting to move in as they knew their friends were moving out. I created a new AST and didn't undertake an inventory/condition report when they moved in. They are now claiming all the damage existed when they moved in. I have evidence from contractors as to the state of the place while they were living there.
If I tell the TDS that I'm not going to pay the £895 as I am going after the tenants in the small claims court. My ONLY concern is to protect my credit rating, if I don't co operate with TDS can it cause problems with credit rating.
All help gratefully received
The deposit scheme we used operates by us hanging on to the money, while paying a fee of about £35. Now that the ex tenant has raised a dispute over the damage TDS wants us to pay £895 (the amount of the deposit) so that TDS can decide if we keep it or they award it to the ex tenant.
Ex tenant is accusing us of falsifying photos etc...all nonsense.........however adjudication is done solely on paperwork, we get no opportunity to question the veracity of their statements.....it comes down to "he said she said".
My instinct is to go after them in small claims court for the difference between the deposit and the reasonable cost of the repairs we had to undertake plus rent void while the work was being done.
If I tell TDS to wait until after Small claims Court what is the downside.....major thing is I want to protect my 999 credit rating
Ex tenant is accusing us of falsifying photos etc...all nonsense.........however adjudication is done solely on paperwork, we get no opportunity to question the veracity of their statements.....it comes down to "he said she said".
My instinct is to go after them in small claims court for the difference between the deposit and the reasonable cost of the repairs we had to undertake plus rent void while the work was being done.
If I tell TDS to wait until after Small claims Court what is the downside.....major thing is I want to protect my 999 credit rating
Without an inventory/schedule of condition signed by the tenants at move-in, your chances of claiming from the deposit are pretty close to zero. I've not used the TDS insured scheme, so suggest you read your agreement with them regarding the point at which you have to lodge funds with them in the event of dispute. You may be able to use the contractors for evidence of condition prior to move-in, support that with photos of damage and invoice for repairs.
Next time, make absolutely sure you prepare a full and detailed inventory with photos and have the tenants sign and date it. The deposit schemes are set to protect tenants. If you want some of the deposit, you need to be able to present evidence and lots of it.
Next time, make absolutely sure you prepare a full and detailed inventory with photos and have the tenants sign and date it. The deposit schemes are set to protect tenants. If you want some of the deposit, you need to be able to present evidence and lots of it.
blindspot said:
Without an inventory/schedule of condition signed by the tenants at move-in, your chances of claiming from the deposit are pretty close to zero.
Next time, make absolutely sure you prepare a full and detailed inventory with photos and have the tenants sign and date it. The deposit schemes are set to protect tenants. If you want some of the deposit, you need to be able to present evidence and lots of it.
Sorry OP, but I'm a landlord, clued up on the law, and I'm afraid this is the case. The deposit scheme is set up to protect the tenants. Next time, make absolutely sure you prepare a full and detailed inventory with photos and have the tenants sign and date it. The deposit schemes are set to protect tenants. If you want some of the deposit, you need to be able to present evidence and lots of it.
The deposit is their money, and to keep some of their money you need to prove it to a third party. The memories of your contractor from a year ago or more won't be good enough.
A lot of landlords now get themselves or agents to go around taking photos of every room. That's not strictly necessary, but it is proof in case of a dispute.
They are allowed fair wear and tear but to really show that an item is damage caused by negligence, if you really want to win a dispute, you need the signed inventory, and even better, photos.
On the facts as given, I would also say that legal action would be a waste of time. You'll spend money suing them, and their defence will clearly be that that was the state of the property when they moved in.
The Judge will then look at you to provide documentary evidence to disprove this. If you don't have it, you'll end up losing, and paying their costs.
Edited by JustinP1 on Thursday 12th February 11:55
Firstly, you do not have to accept the TDS adjudicating, in fact I have already myself refused their adjudication. I believe the TDS is loaded against the landlord, and I really fail to see how any person/s can adjudicate without seeing, talking in person to the tenant and/or the landlord.
Going down the small claims court route will have no affect on your credit rating, and if you choose this route, then apart from retaining your ex tenants Deposit, the TDS will assist your ex tenants in any legal, court action.
Many landlords, me included, have in the past made the mistake of carrying out their own inventory, rather than commissioning an independent inventory. Apart from conducting an inventory at the start of the first tenancy, there should have been a new inventory at the change over of tenants, and at the end of their tenancy.
Photographs also need to be taken, together with professional contractors cleaning carpets, curtains and windows, together with tendering any garden. For whilst a tenancy agreement might state that carpets, curtains, gardens etc need to be cleaned, tendered at the end of the tenancy, if you do not have contractors invoices supporting these works at the start of the tenancy, then it is deemed unfair to force the same on one's departing tenants.
I have considerable sympathy for you OP, and if I were in your same position, I to would put JustinP1's hat on and fight the tenants through the courts, allowing the tenants to bring the case to court, thereby you defending the same.
Going down the small claims court route will have no affect on your credit rating, and if you choose this route, then apart from retaining your ex tenants Deposit, the TDS will assist your ex tenants in any legal, court action.
Many landlords, me included, have in the past made the mistake of carrying out their own inventory, rather than commissioning an independent inventory. Apart from conducting an inventory at the start of the first tenancy, there should have been a new inventory at the change over of tenants, and at the end of their tenancy.
Photographs also need to be taken, together with professional contractors cleaning carpets, curtains and windows, together with tendering any garden. For whilst a tenancy agreement might state that carpets, curtains, gardens etc need to be cleaned, tendered at the end of the tenancy, if you do not have contractors invoices supporting these works at the start of the tenancy, then it is deemed unfair to force the same on one's departing tenants.
I have considerable sympathy for you OP, and if I were in your same position, I to would put JustinP1's hat on and fight the tenants through the courts, allowing the tenants to bring the case to court, thereby you defending the same.
Wings said:
I have considerable sympathy for you OP, and if I were in your same position, I to would put JustinP1's hat on and fight the tenants through the courts, allowing the tenants to bring the case to court, thereby you defending the same.
I should add, whether I would do that would be down to the facts of the case. You have to keep your 'commercial' hat on here. It is mentioned at least £1500 of damage is caused, but has this money been spent yet? How much of this is wear and tear, and how much is real damage?
JustinP1 said:
I should add, whether I would do that would be down to the facts of the case. You have to keep your 'commercial' hat on here.
It is mentioned at least £1500 of damage is caused, but has this money been spent yet? How much of this is wear and tear, and how much is real damage?
Facts of the case are of course important, and if I considered I had a reasonably strong case to defend any legal action, then I would resist returning the departing tenants Deposit.It is mentioned at least £1500 of damage is caused, but has this money been spent yet? How much of this is wear and tear, and how much is real damage?
An important factor for any landlord in a similar situation to the OP, is by returning the tenants Deposit and not pursuing a claim for damages against the tenants, is what possible message you might be sending to future tenants.
Thanks All
A few things have come up.
The spend on re-commissioning the house was over £4000:00 I only "charged" them for the cost of trashing the wooden worktops, the bath/shower, holes in the plaster and damage to anew Smeg fridge. The remainder was money I would have spent anyway on painters etc.
Its been a good wakeup call, the original tenants were met office scientists, they decided to buy a house, and recommended their friends as tenants, they already knew the house. New tenant came round and signed new AST and they arranged handover between themselves so no condition report when they went in.
Went with the plumber to do gas safety, saw the state of the place, took photos and told them I would be back in 14 days to do a landlords inspection. Went back, slightly better but still awful. Wrote to them listing my concerns, got a load of vitriol from tenants girlfriend (who isn't even on the AST). They then decided to leave, they refused to do a checkout and just disappeared. I know they are still at the met office.
Having about 20 different lettings I'm afraid I will have to become another one of the "all tenants are scum" landlords, don't trust them don't be reasonable etc........great shame really .
What bugs me is this is a pretty small 2 bed terrace house that is pretty high spec and now rents for £1000 per month, my girlfriend used to live in it so it also feels a bit personal.
So I will go after them for the difference between the £895 deposit and the direct cost of their damage plus rent void while works were done.
A few things have come up.
The spend on re-commissioning the house was over £4000:00 I only "charged" them for the cost of trashing the wooden worktops, the bath/shower, holes in the plaster and damage to anew Smeg fridge. The remainder was money I would have spent anyway on painters etc.
Its been a good wakeup call, the original tenants were met office scientists, they decided to buy a house, and recommended their friends as tenants, they already knew the house. New tenant came round and signed new AST and they arranged handover between themselves so no condition report when they went in.
Went with the plumber to do gas safety, saw the state of the place, took photos and told them I would be back in 14 days to do a landlords inspection. Went back, slightly better but still awful. Wrote to them listing my concerns, got a load of vitriol from tenants girlfriend (who isn't even on the AST). They then decided to leave, they refused to do a checkout and just disappeared. I know they are still at the met office.
Having about 20 different lettings I'm afraid I will have to become another one of the "all tenants are scum" landlords, don't trust them don't be reasonable etc........great shame really .
What bugs me is this is a pretty small 2 bed terrace house that is pretty high spec and now rents for £1000 per month, my girlfriend used to live in it so it also feels a bit personal.
So I will go after them for the difference between the £895 deposit and the direct cost of their damage plus rent void while works were done.
as others have said you are unlikely to win if you go down the dispute route with the TDS or whatever one you have used due to the lack of inventory. The small claims you may stand a better chance at because you can attend and talk, your contractors can attend and talk. The magistrate will decide who they believe the most. If you also use your mid term inspections and other visits to help back up what you are saying you have a fighting chance.
Also starting a small claim trumps the TDS. You can do either, with the TDS if you tell them its going to court they will drop out of the equation effectively. Not sure if you still need to pay them the disputed sum or not. Also with the small claims you are going for a much larger sum where as with the TDS you are limited to the deposit only. Small claims also gives you more bargaining power with the tenants ie claim for £4000 settle for £2000 and no court etc. It shows the tenants you are serious, they will have to take time off to defend and put some real effort into it.
Also starting a small claim trumps the TDS. You can do either, with the TDS if you tell them its going to court they will drop out of the equation effectively. Not sure if you still need to pay them the disputed sum or not. Also with the small claims you are going for a much larger sum where as with the TDS you are limited to the deposit only. Small claims also gives you more bargaining power with the tenants ie claim for £4000 settle for £2000 and no court etc. It shows the tenants you are serious, they will have to take time off to defend and put some real effort into it.
Write a letter to the previous tenants, you will need to do a search at 192.com, their 'friends' say the current tenants "their friends also" are saying that they left the house in a bad state of repair requiring 'x' amount of pounds work to fix
Put in the letter a pre-printed reply to you with a tick box say, A- we agree please find a cheque for 'x' enclosed or B we do not agree, the property was in perfect state when we moved out.
Put a stamped adressed envelope in the letter.
Finish off by saying that you need the reply back by return or you will be left with no option but to take them to court.
If they reply you have your proof that the house was perfect.
Its a gamble, but you never no and will cost zilch just time
Put in the letter a pre-printed reply to you with a tick box say, A- we agree please find a cheque for 'x' enclosed or B we do not agree, the property was in perfect state when we moved out.
Put a stamped adressed envelope in the letter.
Finish off by saying that you need the reply back by return or you will be left with no option but to take them to court.
If they reply you have your proof that the house was perfect.
Its a gamble, but you never no and will cost zilch just time
Gassing Station | Business | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff