Copy write infringement help
Discussion
Good afternoon gents.
I've got a bit of an issue today to do with copy write infringement.
We basically import stock from Chinese wholesalers and sell online in the UK, however it appears one of the items we have purchased is a reproduction of a copyrighted design from a store in another country.
I genuinely was not aware that this particular item was a reproduction of this designers work (never even knew they existed), however I doubt that this will matter in the grand scheme of things.
We've received a letter from an American law firm saying that we've been selling a reproduction and have been asked to stop, provide invoices from where we purchased from and invoices for sales of this particular item.
We've only been trading for about 18 months and this is something I've never dealt with before, and even more so being a sole trader that this will be on me rather than my business.
I don't want to divulge too much information publicly, however I'm just unsure what I should do about this. I have pulled the item from sale on our website already. Should I seek legal council for this matter or try to resolve this with the designer?
Thanks for reading guys.
I've got a bit of an issue today to do with copy write infringement.
We basically import stock from Chinese wholesalers and sell online in the UK, however it appears one of the items we have purchased is a reproduction of a copyrighted design from a store in another country.
I genuinely was not aware that this particular item was a reproduction of this designers work (never even knew they existed), however I doubt that this will matter in the grand scheme of things.
We've received a letter from an American law firm saying that we've been selling a reproduction and have been asked to stop, provide invoices from where we purchased from and invoices for sales of this particular item.
We've only been trading for about 18 months and this is something I've never dealt with before, and even more so being a sole trader that this will be on me rather than my business.
I don't want to divulge too much information publicly, however I'm just unsure what I should do about this. I have pulled the item from sale on our website already. Should I seek legal council for this matter or try to resolve this with the designer?
Thanks for reading guys.
Legal route can be costly.
Previous company I worked for defended it's IP vigorously; and had a team of full time layers dedicated to this task.
To be honest- they pretty much have to - as if they aren't seen as defending it- then they weaken their rights to the IP.
If it is a big company - they simply bankrupt you with legal fees.
Hope you haven't taken too much of a cold on this.
Previous company I worked for defended it's IP vigorously; and had a team of full time layers dedicated to this task.
To be honest- they pretty much have to - as if they aren't seen as defending it- then they weaken their rights to the IP.
If it is a big company - they simply bankrupt you with legal fees.
Hope you haven't taken too much of a cold on this.
You have removed the item from sale. Leave it at that. If they contact you again, then explain that you did it in innocence and if pushed give them the Chinese supplier's address.
Chances are, that will be the end of it. The law firm are unlikely to chase a Chinese company that can be there one minute and gone the next, or want the hassle.
Did you make/lose a lot on the purchase from the Chinese supplier? If you can show you have not made any money, that might help.
Chances are, that will be the end of it. The law firm are unlikely to chase a Chinese company that can be there one minute and gone the next, or want the hassle.
Did you make/lose a lot on the purchase from the Chinese supplier? If you can show you have not made any money, that might help.
Dejay1788 said:
We've received a letter from an American law firm saying that we've been selling a reproduction and have been asked to stop, provide invoices from where we purchased from and invoices for sales of this particular item.
Well, you can easily stop selling it - the rest I suspect is them trying to chase money. You might, if you wish to look helpful, give them the name of the Chinese outfit (so they can pursue them, haha), but I wouldn't supply any invoices because then they can start quantifying money and demanding some from you.NB 'Copyright'.
Have they said the only apparent inringement is copyright? And not of any registered rights, such as patents or design rights?
The beauty of the copyright, designs and patents act is that there are no "threats" provisions for copyright, which in English means you can make whatever allegations you like that someone has infrined your copyright (which it sounds like they have done), without fear of redress. So I suspect they have little to go on, and ar just bulk mailing any buyers the can find in the hope of someone sending a cheque. They would have to prove not only they are the owners of valid copyright, but that copying has taken place, to have a case. Unless they have rock solid evidence (employee walked out with a disc of technial drawings whistling "I'm setting up on my own, tomorrow"), they may not be able to prove it anyway, they might just thnk an item for sale looks a bit (or lot) like theirs, which is not sufficient.
If you are worried, you should find a local patent attorney firm through www.cipa.org.uk and find one who will give you 30 mins free to read the actual letter and tell you if it anything more than spam, which a lot of this stuff is.
The beauty of the copyright, designs and patents act is that there are no "threats" provisions for copyright, which in English means you can make whatever allegations you like that someone has infrined your copyright (which it sounds like they have done), without fear of redress. So I suspect they have little to go on, and ar just bulk mailing any buyers the can find in the hope of someone sending a cheque. They would have to prove not only they are the owners of valid copyright, but that copying has taken place, to have a case. Unless they have rock solid evidence (employee walked out with a disc of technial drawings whistling "I'm setting up on my own, tomorrow"), they may not be able to prove it anyway, they might just thnk an item for sale looks a bit (or lot) like theirs, which is not sufficient.
If you are worried, you should find a local patent attorney firm through www.cipa.org.uk and find one who will give you 30 mins free to read the actual letter and tell you if it anything more than spam, which a lot of this stuff is.
Thank you for all of your replies guys, really appreciated, it's put my mind at rest a little about it all.
As for the product, I am not 100% sure if it is a reproduction of their artwork but is very very similar. Either way I've removed it from sale and told them as such and hopefully that will be the end of it.
If I hear anything further I'll keep you updated, but after a bit of digging it appears that a lot of other similar retailers have picked this item up from wholesale and this person is trying to stop them from selling it too.
As for the product, I am not 100% sure if it is a reproduction of their artwork but is very very similar. Either way I've removed it from sale and told them as such and hopefully that will be the end of it.
If I hear anything further I'll keep you updated, but after a bit of digging it appears that a lot of other similar retailers have picked this item up from wholesale and this person is trying to stop them from selling it too.
Well their law firm got back to us, requesting us to send them any invoices for units we purchased and sold. I'm not sure on this however.
They also sent a second letter, which states "you may be held liable for copyright infringement in connection with unauthorised goods in the United States bearing ****** designs.
We never sold any in the states.
They also sent a second letter, which states "you may be held liable for copyright infringement in connection with unauthorised goods in the United States bearing ****** designs.
We never sold any in the states.
Dejay1788 said:
Well their law firm got back to us, requesting us to send them any invoices for units we purchased and sold. I'm not sure on this however.
They also sent a second letter, which states "you may be held liable for copyright infringement in connection with unauthorised goods in the United States bearing ****** designs.
We never sold any in the states.
The reason they want figures is they want to put a figure on the damage you've caused them or the profits you've gained from infringement. They also sent a second letter, which states "you may be held liable for copyright infringement in connection with unauthorised goods in the United States bearing ****** designs.
We never sold any in the states.
If you were a Ltd Co director, I'd urge you to seek legal advice, because your company might be at risk. If you're a sole trader, if legal action is taken it will be you sued personally.
Big companies aggressively protect their investments. They'll budget for the legal costs.
Now, you might not have anything to worry about in the end. However, by acting without taking proper advice you may be signing your life away. This might get nasty.
I can personally recommend Michael Czechyra at Rollingsons. He knows his stuff in this field and has gravitas. He's not cheap, but you need good legal advice before you do *anything* here.
Dejay1788 said:
I believe it is, judging from another online platform they retail from, however the price of the original is around 5 times what we were retailing at.
Plus at the start you said : We basically import stock from Chinese wholesalers and sell online in the UK, however it appears one of the items we have purchased is a reproduction of a copyrighted design from a store in another country.I genuinely was not aware that this particular item was a reproduction of this designers work (never even knew they existed), however I doubt that this will matter in the grand scheme of things.
Did you not look at the product before you sold it?
Hope you get it all sorted
JustinP1 said:
The reason they want figures is they want to put a figure on the damage you've caused them or the profits you've gained from infringement.
If you were a Ltd Co director, I'd urge you to seek legal advice, because your company might be at risk. If you're a sole trader, if legal action is taken it will be you sued personally.
Big companies aggressively protect their investments. They'll budget for the legal costs.
Now, you might not have anything to worry about in the end. However, by acting without taking proper advice you may be signing your life away. This might get nasty.
I can personally recommend Michael Czechyra at Rollingsons. He knows his stuff in this field and has gravitas. He's not cheap, but you need good legal advice before you do *anything* here.
It's not a big company. it's either a one man band or has very few employees. I will look into legal advice thank you.If you were a Ltd Co director, I'd urge you to seek legal advice, because your company might be at risk. If you're a sole trader, if legal action is taken it will be you sued personally.
Big companies aggressively protect their investments. They'll budget for the legal costs.
Now, you might not have anything to worry about in the end. However, by acting without taking proper advice you may be signing your life away. This might get nasty.
I can personally recommend Michael Czechyra at Rollingsons. He knows his stuff in this field and has gravitas. He's not cheap, but you need good legal advice before you do *anything* here.
Also to the last comment, we sell generic mass produced fashion items, this one item is either a copy of, or excess stock of a very very small designer which we had never heard of before.
Dejay1788 said:
JustinP1 said:
The reason they want figures is they want to put a figure on the damage you've caused them or the profits you've gained from infringement.
If you were a Ltd Co director, I'd urge you to seek legal advice, because your company might be at risk. If you're a sole trader, if legal action is taken it will be you sued personally.
Big companies aggressively protect their investments. They'll budget for the legal costs.
Now, you might not have anything to worry about in the end. However, by acting without taking proper advice you may be signing your life away. This might get nasty.
I can personally recommend Michael Czechyra at Rollingsons. He knows his stuff in this field and has gravitas. He's not cheap, but you need good legal advice before you do *anything* here.
It's not a big company. it's either a one man band or has very few employees. I will look into legal advice thank you.If you were a Ltd Co director, I'd urge you to seek legal advice, because your company might be at risk. If you're a sole trader, if legal action is taken it will be you sued personally.
Big companies aggressively protect their investments. They'll budget for the legal costs.
Now, you might not have anything to worry about in the end. However, by acting without taking proper advice you may be signing your life away. This might get nasty.
I can personally recommend Michael Czechyra at Rollingsons. He knows his stuff in this field and has gravitas. He's not cheap, but you need good legal advice before you do *anything* here.
Also to the last comment, we sell generic mass produced fashion items, this one item is either a copy of, or excess stock of a very very small designer which we had never heard of before.
With the above in formation, in that you are dealing with a small company, and that we are talking about sales in two or three figures, then the chances of then actually doing anything about it are very slim.
I do know that there is a lot of 'heat' at the moment for small clothing manufacturers to use their rights to stop larger companies stealing their ideas, and 'union' type organisations to help.
If we're talking about sums that are in the tens or hundreds of pounds then it's not worth them taking legal action over, especially if the 'problem' as they see it has stopped.
To give you an idea, the chap I mentioned charges £500-£1000 to assess your situation and write your first letter. If this eclipses the sales figures here, then there's little chance the other party is getting quality legal advice.
In this situation, I'd be tempted to do absolutely nothing. For this size issue they're not going to start legal action in a foreign jurisdiction with little evidence, or get court orders to get information from you.
JustinP1 said:
Ahh OK. I had in my mind we may be talking about a product with sales in four, five or six figures.
With the above in formation, in that you are dealing with a small company, and that we are talking about sales in two or three figures, then the chances of then actually doing anything about it are very slim.
I do know that there is a lot of 'heat' at the moment for small clothing manufacturers to use their rights to stop larger companies stealing their ideas, and 'union' type organisations to help.
If we're talking about sums that are in the tens or hundreds of pounds then it's not worth them taking legal action over, especially if the 'problem' as they see it has stopped.
To give you an idea, the chap I mentioned charges £500-£1000 to assess your situation and write your first letter. If this eclipses the sales figures here, then there's little chance the other party is getting quality legal advice.
In this situation, I'd be tempted to do absolutely nothing. For this size issue they're not going to start legal action in a foreign jurisdiction with little evidence, or get court orders to get information from you.
Thank you for the advice, appreciate it.With the above in formation, in that you are dealing with a small company, and that we are talking about sales in two or three figures, then the chances of then actually doing anything about it are very slim.
I do know that there is a lot of 'heat' at the moment for small clothing manufacturers to use their rights to stop larger companies stealing their ideas, and 'union' type organisations to help.
If we're talking about sums that are in the tens or hundreds of pounds then it's not worth them taking legal action over, especially if the 'problem' as they see it has stopped.
To give you an idea, the chap I mentioned charges £500-£1000 to assess your situation and write your first letter. If this eclipses the sales figures here, then there's little chance the other party is getting quality legal advice.
In this situation, I'd be tempted to do absolutely nothing. For this size issue they're not going to start legal action in a foreign jurisdiction with little evidence, or get court orders to get information from you.
To give a little information about the level of what's actually gone on is that we've had less than 10 units delivered and not sold half. We didn't actively promote this product in our range (which is quite large) so the cost to them in terms of lost sales would be negligible.
I'm considering sending them the invoice for 10 units and confirming our sales (or lack of on this item) and leave it at that.
I'm assuming that they found us through Google and are under the impression that we're a larger company than what we are.
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