Approved Contractor for 12 months, not a single enquiry....
Discussion
I would just like to hear other peoples stories and experiences really, maybe get some advice.
I have been on the Local Authorities approved contractors list for nearly a 12 month, during that time I have not been asked to tender or quote for any work at all. Despite banging on doors (literally) to find out how to get on the list, jumping through hoops to submit an application and then chasing the LA to hear the response to the application (which I left for 3 months only to be told I had "just been confirmed" 3 days after chasing up- conveniently).
Right from the off it felt as though someone, somewhere did not want a new contractor sniffing around what seems like a mountain of work. What makes this situation worse is that for my work category (groundwork etc), every single piece of work that seems to be undertaken for this LA is done by the one contractor, someone that I know and someone that I know I can better. This contractor is larger than me but his only regular work appears to come from the LA.
I have discussed this issue with a friend who is reasonably high up in the LA and is familiar with this set up and the contractor. He revealed something interesting to me, basically the LA have a price list what they charge for their plant & labour, it is supposed to be an internal private document. My friend has the ability to call in this other contractor for some of his projects and was given a price sheet from him, said price sheet was word for word only every item on there was +£0.40 above the LA internal rates. Obviously this is highly suspicious.
I think its pretty obvious to anyone with half a brain cell that there is something dodgy going on. My question is, how do I shake some trees to bring this to some ones attention? I feel I could offer far better service and VFM than this other contractor but I don't get notifications of ANY jobs let alone get the chance to submit a quote. The document I received confirming I was on the approved list stated something along the lines of "being on the list does not guarantee you any work", I would like to think it would get you one invite to tender in 12 months though!!!
Obviously my biggest fear is shaking the wrong tree and being ruled out of all future projects, however with no Invitations to Tender in 12 months I am starting to feel like I have nothing to lose. Ideally there would be some kind of external authority that monitors how public money is spent within a LA, but I can't see it....
I have been on the Local Authorities approved contractors list for nearly a 12 month, during that time I have not been asked to tender or quote for any work at all. Despite banging on doors (literally) to find out how to get on the list, jumping through hoops to submit an application and then chasing the LA to hear the response to the application (which I left for 3 months only to be told I had "just been confirmed" 3 days after chasing up- conveniently).
Right from the off it felt as though someone, somewhere did not want a new contractor sniffing around what seems like a mountain of work. What makes this situation worse is that for my work category (groundwork etc), every single piece of work that seems to be undertaken for this LA is done by the one contractor, someone that I know and someone that I know I can better. This contractor is larger than me but his only regular work appears to come from the LA.
I have discussed this issue with a friend who is reasonably high up in the LA and is familiar with this set up and the contractor. He revealed something interesting to me, basically the LA have a price list what they charge for their plant & labour, it is supposed to be an internal private document. My friend has the ability to call in this other contractor for some of his projects and was given a price sheet from him, said price sheet was word for word only every item on there was +£0.40 above the LA internal rates. Obviously this is highly suspicious.
I think its pretty obvious to anyone with half a brain cell that there is something dodgy going on. My question is, how do I shake some trees to bring this to some ones attention? I feel I could offer far better service and VFM than this other contractor but I don't get notifications of ANY jobs let alone get the chance to submit a quote. The document I received confirming I was on the approved list stated something along the lines of "being on the list does not guarantee you any work", I would like to think it would get you one invite to tender in 12 months though!!!
Obviously my biggest fear is shaking the wrong tree and being ruled out of all future projects, however with no Invitations to Tender in 12 months I am starting to feel like I have nothing to lose. Ideally there would be some kind of external authority that monitors how public money is spent within a LA, but I can't see it....
We are the other way - were approached by a different council to supply some pieces, through this we got put on ours and theirs 'portal thing'
We are getting loads of enquiries from roofing to fixing doors. They are now redirected to a seperate folder and checked when we are free as it was getting crazy!
We are getting loads of enquiries from roofing to fixing doors. They are now redirected to a seperate folder and checked when we are free as it was getting crazy!
OP I think the document you're referring to is just the Schedule of Rates, won on tender by the Contractor you're referring to. Nothing necessarily dodgy.
The SOR is a national document with base rates for every likely item of work and tenders based on + (or sometimes -) to this. From your description this is the answer, which if you weren't aware of then I'm afraid you're on the platform trying to piss in while the other contractor is on the train pissing out.
It doesn't look too good that you aren't familiar with this document and process....
The SOR is a national document with base rates for every likely item of work and tenders based on + (or sometimes -) to this. From your description this is the answer, which if you weren't aware of then I'm afraid you're on the platform trying to piss in while the other contractor is on the train pissing out.
It doesn't look too good that you aren't familiar with this document and process....
having knowledge and experience of working in this set up, i understand your frustration. but as noted, being on the approved supplier list is only the first hurdle to get through to actually be allowed to price jobs.
but think of it from the councils point of view:
- they have a contractor with experience of working with them
- they know the quality of their work
- they have a set out schedule of rates they can call off for standard jobs
- they know the uplift over and above the councils rates
- they know how quickly this company will react to work, price jobs, complete work on-site.
- they might get a nice wee bottle, hamper, day at the races, fancy watch, holiday in the bahamas, car, enevelope with used £20's.......... (see as fit for value of contract)
obviously the last one is a bit tongue in cheek (but we know it happens), but have a think of the other ones, you need to prove to the council that you can improve on all these things before its worth their while changing!
but think of it from the councils point of view:
- they have a contractor with experience of working with them
- they know the quality of their work
- they have a set out schedule of rates they can call off for standard jobs
- they know the uplift over and above the councils rates
- they know how quickly this company will react to work, price jobs, complete work on-site.
- they might get a nice wee bottle, hamper, day at the races, fancy watch, holiday in the bahamas, car, enevelope with used £20's.......... (see as fit for value of contract)
obviously the last one is a bit tongue in cheek (but we know it happens), but have a think of the other ones, you need to prove to the council that you can improve on all these things before its worth their while changing!
I've worked for councils on IT projects so got to see first hand some of the internal processes. I also know of people who like you have been trying to get onto approved supplier lists and a few that have succeeded. Let's just say it's not what you know but who you know.
The approved contractor will be a friend\relative\pub buddy\lodge brother\secret partner of the company (yes this happens) or if not one of those then somewhere along the line, someone would have done some serious "greasing of the wheels". Sometimes you are lucky, in the right place at the right time or the stars align and you manage to get in without any of these but it's rare. The fact that you could do the job better, cheaper has NOTHING to do with it. It was also amazing how popular I became with a lot of contractor acquaintances when they found out I was working for a council, got a lot of friendly phone-calls, some from people I barely knew during that period as doing work for local or central governments seems to be license to print money (or that is the perception at least)
Frustrating I know but this is prevalent through a lot of the public sector unfortunately.
The approved contractor will be a friend\relative\pub buddy\lodge brother\secret partner of the company (yes this happens) or if not one of those then somewhere along the line, someone would have done some serious "greasing of the wheels". Sometimes you are lucky, in the right place at the right time or the stars align and you manage to get in without any of these but it's rare. The fact that you could do the job better, cheaper has NOTHING to do with it. It was also amazing how popular I became with a lot of contractor acquaintances when they found out I was working for a council, got a lot of friendly phone-calls, some from people I barely knew during that period as doing work for local or central governments seems to be license to print money (or that is the perception at least)
Frustrating I know but this is prevalent through a lot of the public sector unfortunately.
Tuvra said:
I would just like to hear other peoples stories and experiences really, maybe get some advice.
I have been on the Local Authorities approved contractors list for nearly a 12 month, during that time I have not been asked to tender or quote for any work at all. Despite banging on doors (literally) to find out how to get on the list, jumping through hoops to submit an application and then chasing the LA to hear the response to the application (which I left for 3 months only to be told I had "just been confirmed" 3 days after chasing up- conveniently).
Right from the off it felt as though someone, somewhere did not want a new contractor sniffing around what seems like a mountain of work. What makes this situation worse is that for my work category (groundwork etc), every single piece of work that seems to be undertaken for this LA is done by the one contractor, someone that I know and someone that I know I can better. This contractor is larger than me but his only regular work appears to come from the LA.
I have discussed this issue with a friend who is reasonably high up in the LA and is familiar with this set up and the contractor. He revealed something interesting to me, basically the LA have a price list what they charge for their plant & labour, it is supposed to be an internal private document. My friend has the ability to call in this other contractor for some of his projects and was given a price sheet from him, said price sheet was word for word only every item on there was +£0.40 above the LA internal rates. Obviously this is highly suspicious.
I think its pretty obvious to anyone with half a brain cell that there is something dodgy going on. My question is, how do I shake some trees to bring this to some ones attention? I feel I could offer far better service and VFM than this other contractor but I don't get notifications of ANY jobs let alone get the chance to submit a quote. The document I received confirming I was on the approved list stated something along the lines of "being on the list does not guarantee you any work", I would like to think it would get you one invite to tender in 12 months though!!!
Obviously my biggest fear is shaking the wrong tree and being ruled out of all future projects, however with no Invitations to Tender in 12 months I am starting to feel like I have nothing to lose. Ideally there would be some kind of external authority that monitors how public money is spent within a LA, but I can't see it....
I was an approved supplier of telecommunications kit for a city council and got all the business, always. At list price, no discount.I have been on the Local Authorities approved contractors list for nearly a 12 month, during that time I have not been asked to tender or quote for any work at all. Despite banging on doors (literally) to find out how to get on the list, jumping through hoops to submit an application and then chasing the LA to hear the response to the application (which I left for 3 months only to be told I had "just been confirmed" 3 days after chasing up- conveniently).
Right from the off it felt as though someone, somewhere did not want a new contractor sniffing around what seems like a mountain of work. What makes this situation worse is that for my work category (groundwork etc), every single piece of work that seems to be undertaken for this LA is done by the one contractor, someone that I know and someone that I know I can better. This contractor is larger than me but his only regular work appears to come from the LA.
I have discussed this issue with a friend who is reasonably high up in the LA and is familiar with this set up and the contractor. He revealed something interesting to me, basically the LA have a price list what they charge for their plant & labour, it is supposed to be an internal private document. My friend has the ability to call in this other contractor for some of his projects and was given a price sheet from him, said price sheet was word for word only every item on there was +£0.40 above the LA internal rates. Obviously this is highly suspicious.
I think its pretty obvious to anyone with half a brain cell that there is something dodgy going on. My question is, how do I shake some trees to bring this to some ones attention? I feel I could offer far better service and VFM than this other contractor but I don't get notifications of ANY jobs let alone get the chance to submit a quote. The document I received confirming I was on the approved list stated something along the lines of "being on the list does not guarantee you any work", I would like to think it would get you one invite to tender in 12 months though!!!
Obviously my biggest fear is shaking the wrong tree and being ruled out of all future projects, however with no Invitations to Tender in 12 months I am starting to feel like I have nothing to lose. Ideally there would be some kind of external authority that monitors how public money is spent within a LA, but I can't see it....
During the time I was the approved supplier there was no way on earth another supplier could have supplied in my place.
There were no brown envelopes involved and in fact if I bought them lunch they had to buy me one back.
I got the business because they perceived me as knowing what I was doing and being unlikely to lose any of them their job.
I hope OP gets enough work in 2016, I thinks he's not in the position with the Council he thought he was in its just a Schedule or Rates that the other company have won. SOR's rarely work well due to little or no profit on spot items so contractors look to 'increase' the scope of work on each call out or cut corners. Most contractors end up being ditched after the duration of their contract and someone else wins the next period as there are many keen to get on the bandwagon.
Connaughts went bust in 2010 having priced work for a number of organisations at a -ve markup on the base rates.
Connaughts went bust in 2010 having priced work for a number of organisations at a -ve markup on the base rates.
13m said:
I got the business because they perceived me as knowing what I was doing and being unlikely to lose any of them their job.
This and they want an easy life. Council officers are not paid well, they are often not very good at their jobs, if they where they'd be working in the private sector. They just want to get the job done as easily as possible, tick the boxes that need to tick to keep their jobs.megaphone said:
This and they want an easy life. Council officers are not paid well, they are often not very good at their jobs, if they where they'd be working in the private sector. They just want to get the job done as easily as possible, tick the boxes that need to tick to keep their jobs.
they get a fekking good pension contribution......You need to register with all the councils tender portals. Being "approved" means nothing.
This is the north west one.
https://www.the-chest.org.uk
This is the north west one.
https://www.the-chest.org.uk
Birkin1932 said:
You need to register with all the councils tender portals. Being "approved" means nothing.
This is the north west one.
https://www.the-chest.org.uk
...in an ideal world yes but in reality a total waste of time - hours and hours completing the documentation and not a hope in hell of anything resulting...This is the north west one.
https://www.the-chest.org.uk
Working in the public sector I'm not surprised about how estates departments work.
I know a lot of areas where they are left to their own devices as they have the technical knowledge.
They will be audited about any big spends (well they should be) over the sfi's
I'm not up with works contracts but I know anything we have over £25k has to be advertised (10k for other areas of the public sector)
https://www.gov.uk/contracts-finder
OP have you been accepted into a Framework ? There is no guarantee or rather there is no real need for the LA to go out to competition to each provider.
I had a debrief meeting a couple of years back with a company who we didn't award a particular contract to. We did a competitive excercise and chose 1 supplier rather than a framework agreement where we could have appointed both companies.
The company told me they had been accepted to a lot of London public sector organisations under a framework agreement but never got any business.
They asked if this was common within the public sector to which I replied it's a way of keeping your current provider even if their bid was not the winning bid.
I know a lot of areas where they are left to their own devices as they have the technical knowledge.
They will be audited about any big spends (well they should be) over the sfi's
I'm not up with works contracts but I know anything we have over £25k has to be advertised (10k for other areas of the public sector)
https://www.gov.uk/contracts-finder
OP have you been accepted into a Framework ? There is no guarantee or rather there is no real need for the LA to go out to competition to each provider.
I had a debrief meeting a couple of years back with a company who we didn't award a particular contract to. We did a competitive excercise and chose 1 supplier rather than a framework agreement where we could have appointed both companies.
The company told me they had been accepted to a lot of London public sector organisations under a framework agreement but never got any business.
They asked if this was common within the public sector to which I replied it's a way of keeping your current provider even if their bid was not the winning bid.
V6Pushfit said:
Birkin1932 said:
You need to register with all the councils tender portals. Being "approved" means nothing.
This is the north west one.
https://www.the-chest.org.uk
...in an ideal world yes but in reality a total waste of time - hours and hours completing the documentation and not a hope in hell of anything resulting...This is the north west one.
https://www.the-chest.org.uk
ked it up and ended up getting another order of £17k to correct his errors!Its just a very frustrating process really. I work for a Private Company (Blue Chip) and win loads of work even though I am competing against at least two other contractors. I just feel a bit annoyed that they are not trying to get the best VFM for the tax payer (and not giving me a fair crack at the whip or telling me how I get one)
I tender a lot of building work, and its a pain to have to involve people who haven't got a good track record. There are a lot of 'suited n booted' marketing types hawking for business and its those companies that tend to do a crap job, having spent their profits on the marketing and not on the management of the work!
Thurbs said:
You need to find a prospect in growth or threat mode, not in steady state or evangalist mode. That is why they are not buying. Public bodies are the same as any organisation and the drivers for change need to be there for things to happen.
Err what?? I think you are on the wrong thread, the one you want is this wayhttp://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
V6Pushfit said:
Birkin1932 said:
You need to register with all the councils tender portals. Being "approved" means nothing.
This is the north west one.
https://www.the-chest.org.uk
...in an ideal world yes but in reality a total waste of time - hours and hours completing the documentation and not a hope in hell of anything resulting...This is the north west one.
https://www.the-chest.org.uk
Birkin1932 said:
Thats amazing, we get a lot of work through this and other national hubs. I suppose it depends on what industry you are in.
Construction here, and it's true you have to be on the train pissing out rather than on the platform trying to piss in.On that note I'lm just opening a bottle of bubbly from a grateful contractor.... and must find more work for him next year...
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