Self employed, and ripped off.
Discussion
Seeking opinions of any fellow self employed folks on here.
On Friday I undertook a days work restoring a customers battered white leather Natuzzi sofa. My company restores leather.
Upon completion of the work, in situ at his home, both husband and wife were delighted with the results. Then something happened that I can honestly say I have not experienced in four years of trading. The husband suddenly became extremely hostile and threatening, suggesting we had marked his new carpet. We categorically denied this, as we use protective dust sheets through out our work. His wife was highly embarrassed by his histrionics, and too stated that we hadn't marked their carpet. We stated that IF we had market the carpet we would rectify it - for EG source a professional cleaner. We went on to add that there is no question regarding the calibre of our work, and that this payment is not up for negotiation. We stated that we would need to see the carpet in natural light, but that we would not shirk our obligations should we have marked the carpet in the course of our work.
By now the husband was being so confrontational that we had no choice but to vacate his premises, with no payment, and no option to rectify the mark, IF there was indeed one that was of our doing. By now his wife was in tears, asking us to ignore him and just deal with her. We politely declined, saying that we are not prepared to feel threatened whilst undertaking our work.
The same evening I texted him to state that our bill will be in the post, and that if we don't have payment within 7 days we shall undertake legal action to recover our costs. He replied stating 'I agree to pay you half the agreed amount minus the cost of cleaning our carpet, bu11s
t bu11st bu11st.....
By now I had had enough, and this is the one mistake I made, We text back to state that he's a bully, and that we've dealt with worse CU next Tuesdays than him, and that we'll see 'you' in court if you refuse to pay your dues. He is now deciding to be clever and say 'the court shall now see who the real aggressor is.'
If this is raised in court I shall of course express 'regret' at the choice of words, but state that the sentiment still stands, that he is a bully and a thief.
We have a photographic record of our work for the record.
Again, to reiterate, we have no option to return to his address to rectify said mark, if indeed it is of our doing. He was so aggressive we nearly called the police out.
The question.... Has he any chance in hell of winning anything? We plan to proceed to court in 7 days if we don't have sight of payment.
Oh. and for the record he is also an abusive bully to his wife. I clearly heard him give her words of 'warning' about 'disrespect' behind a door he assumed was closed.
The cost of work is £450, a sum I'm not happy to write off.
Edit. We have sent out a letter, recorded, stating our position, our expectation, his unreasonable behaviour, and our intention to take legal action if the debt remains unpaid.
Happy to post said letter up here, minus sensitive details if anyone wishes to see it.
Thanks in advance.
Edit 2 - does anyone know of anyway this thread can be moved to 'general gassing'?
On Friday I undertook a days work restoring a customers battered white leather Natuzzi sofa. My company restores leather.
Upon completion of the work, in situ at his home, both husband and wife were delighted with the results. Then something happened that I can honestly say I have not experienced in four years of trading. The husband suddenly became extremely hostile and threatening, suggesting we had marked his new carpet. We categorically denied this, as we use protective dust sheets through out our work. His wife was highly embarrassed by his histrionics, and too stated that we hadn't marked their carpet. We stated that IF we had market the carpet we would rectify it - for EG source a professional cleaner. We went on to add that there is no question regarding the calibre of our work, and that this payment is not up for negotiation. We stated that we would need to see the carpet in natural light, but that we would not shirk our obligations should we have marked the carpet in the course of our work.
By now the husband was being so confrontational that we had no choice but to vacate his premises, with no payment, and no option to rectify the mark, IF there was indeed one that was of our doing. By now his wife was in tears, asking us to ignore him and just deal with her. We politely declined, saying that we are not prepared to feel threatened whilst undertaking our work.
The same evening I texted him to state that our bill will be in the post, and that if we don't have payment within 7 days we shall undertake legal action to recover our costs. He replied stating 'I agree to pay you half the agreed amount minus the cost of cleaning our carpet, bu11s
t bu11st bu11st.....By now I had had enough, and this is the one mistake I made, We text back to state that he's a bully, and that we've dealt with worse CU next Tuesdays than him, and that we'll see 'you' in court if you refuse to pay your dues. He is now deciding to be clever and say 'the court shall now see who the real aggressor is.'
If this is raised in court I shall of course express 'regret' at the choice of words, but state that the sentiment still stands, that he is a bully and a thief.
We have a photographic record of our work for the record.
Again, to reiterate, we have no option to return to his address to rectify said mark, if indeed it is of our doing. He was so aggressive we nearly called the police out.
The question.... Has he any chance in hell of winning anything? We plan to proceed to court in 7 days if we don't have sight of payment.
Oh. and for the record he is also an abusive bully to his wife. I clearly heard him give her words of 'warning' about 'disrespect' behind a door he assumed was closed.
The cost of work is £450, a sum I'm not happy to write off.
Edit. We have sent out a letter, recorded, stating our position, our expectation, his unreasonable behaviour, and our intention to take legal action if the debt remains unpaid.
Happy to post said letter up here, minus sensitive details if anyone wishes to see it.
Thanks in advance.
Edit 2 - does anyone know of anyway this thread can be moved to 'general gassing'?
Edited by Fermit The Krog on Sunday 14th February 21:15
Edited by Fermit The Krog on Sunday 14th February 21:21
Edited by Fermit The Krog on Monday 15th February 19:08
As you have acknowledged, your less than professional response, whilst understandable, will not help matters. In your situation, I would move on; £450 is relatively small compared to the anguish, time and costs the alternative brings. These things happen and it will happen again; it's an occupational hazard. Try to learn something from it to reduce the risk of a similar occurrence again. Most people are good but every business will be able to share their similar stories that thankfully happen infrequently. Although I have just read that complaints initiated in the UK are steadily rising. Good luck!
He sounds like an absolute nightmare and I have dealt with someone like him before. By the end of the 'battle' I wished I'd just written it off and put it down to experience. The time I spent on it meant I effectively made a loss anyway. Just move on, after all, once every 4 years isn't so bad!
myvision said:
Did you take photos of the carpet when you had finished?
Yes, I did. Nothing to be seen. As crazy as it sounds (and bear with me here...) whether or not there is a mark on his carpet is not the primary issue. We stated up front that had we marked it we would rectify it by what ever means. His demeanour left us no option to return to do so, should it be apt. A pro carpet cleaner, to remove one spot of something would be £60 max, that would still leave £390 outstanding.Part of me says that I should just walk, life is too short and all that, but I can't help feel it's personal, and I'm not one to be bullied in to submission.
At least my saving grace was that when I left I made myself leave the scene and calm myself down. Part of me wanted to put a rock through the window of his car, which really wouldn't have been clever!
xjay1337 said:
I'd set up a claim through the small claims court, you don't' really have much to lose.
If his wife testifies in your favour then you should win...?
Sounds like he has a habit of being abusive/aggressive so why let him get away with it...
The letter is out to him, so if payment isn't received then this is the next option.If his wife testifies in your favour then you should win...?
Sounds like he has a habit of being abusive/aggressive so why let him get away with it...
I'd love his wife to testify, it would be the biggest insult he could receive. I really doubt she shall though, he's a bully with her too, and I suspect she'd be on the receiving end of words or a slap if she did.
As I mentioned, I heard him having words with her behind a closed door, they were 'how dare you apologise for me, you are my wife, and I wont have you disrespect me like that'. I really wanted to batter him on the spot hearing that. I've no time for men who bully their women. Not the behaviour of a real man.
Write a letter to him saying that if payment isn't received within the normal payment terms, you will be taking further action to recover the amount due.
If and when that date expires with no payment, then write a further letter saying that legal action is being taken - perhaps with a statement that you will be seeking payment through the issuing of a Small Claim through the County Court.
Include with this letter a copy of the completed form but tell him that you will delay submitting it for 14 days pending payment. If no payment received within 14 days, submit the form.
http://hmctsformfinder.justice.gov.uk/courtfinder/...
If and when that date expires with no payment, then write a further letter saying that legal action is being taken - perhaps with a statement that you will be seeking payment through the issuing of a Small Claim through the County Court.
Include with this letter a copy of the completed form but tell him that you will delay submitting it for 14 days pending payment. If no payment received within 14 days, submit the form.
http://hmctsformfinder.justice.gov.uk/courtfinder/...
Whilst part of me wants to recommend some chaps I know with baseball bats 
- you're probs best off spending the time you are about to waste on "Legal" stuff trying to find new work. This will benefit your business going forward and will be much more rewarding than getting this chap to pay up. Plus even if you do get him to pay up, it will still be a loss. Just getting your solicitor to write a letter will turn the whole scenario into a loss.....
Id pursue it a little like Eric suggests, but I wouldn't get too heavy or spend too much time on it.
I hate this attitude as people shouldn't be able to get away with behaviour like this. But sometimes you have to look at the bigger picture.... Plus if he goes round being a knob like this all the time, it will catch up with him eventually.
- you're probs best off spending the time you are about to waste on "Legal" stuff trying to find new work. This will benefit your business going forward and will be much more rewarding than getting this chap to pay up. Plus even if you do get him to pay up, it will still be a loss. Just getting your solicitor to write a letter will turn the whole scenario into a loss.....Id pursue it a little like Eric suggests, but I wouldn't get too heavy or spend too much time on it.
I hate this attitude as people shouldn't be able to get away with behaviour like this. But sometimes you have to look at the bigger picture.... Plus if he goes round being a knob like this all the time, it will catch up with him eventually.
Eric Mc said:
Write a letter to him saying that if payment isn't received within the normal payment terms, you will be taking further action to recover the amount due.
If and when that date expires with no payment, then write a further letter saying that legal action is being taken - perhaps with a statement that you will be seeking payment through the issuing of a Small Claim through the County Court.
Include with this letter a copy of the completed form but tell him that you will delay submitting it for 14 days pending payment. If no payment received within 14 days, submit the form.
http://hmctsformfinder.justice.gov.uk/courtfinder/...
Good plan. Pretty much what I've done/ plan to, but your suggestion adds a delayed submission, a 'do you want to have a think about this'.... If and when that date expires with no payment, then write a further letter saying that legal action is being taken - perhaps with a statement that you will be seeking payment through the issuing of a Small Claim through the County Court.
Include with this letter a copy of the completed form but tell him that you will delay submitting it for 14 days pending payment. If no payment received within 14 days, submit the form.
http://hmctsformfinder.justice.gov.uk/courtfinder/...
russy01 said:
Whilst part of me wants to recommend some chaps I know with baseball bats - you're probs best off spending the time you are about to waste on "Legal" stuff trying to find new work. This will benefit your business going forward and will be much more rewarding than getting this chap to pay up. Plus even if you do get him to pay up, it will still be a loss. Just getting your solicitor to write a letter will turn the whole scenario into a loss.....
Id pursue it a little like Eric suggests, but I wouldn't get too heavy or spend too much time on it.
I hate this attitude as people shouldn't be able to get away with behaviour like this. But sometimes you have to look at the bigger picture.... Plus if he goes round being a knob like this all the time, it will catch up with him eventually.
No, please recommend away! Jokes.... - you're probs best off spending the time you are about to waste on "Legal" stuff trying to find new work. This will benefit your business going forward and will be much more rewarding than getting this chap to pay up. Plus even if you do get him to pay up, it will still be a loss. Just getting your solicitor to write a letter will turn the whole scenario into a loss.....Id pursue it a little like Eric suggests, but I wouldn't get too heavy or spend too much time on it.
I hate this attitude as people shouldn't be able to get away with behaviour like this. But sometimes you have to look at the bigger picture.... Plus if he goes round being a knob like this all the time, it will catch up with him eventually.
I won't spend a penny on solicitors if push comes to shove, I'd represent myself.
As you say it will come back on him. I suspect at some point someone will get wind of the abuse he gives his lady and he'll end up in hospital. Most men don't like that sort of thing. Get you though, it's the feeling that such an ar5ehole is feeling clever with himself
Fermit The Krog said:
xjay1337 said:
I'd set up a claim through the small claims court, you don't' really have much to lose.
If his wife testifies in your favour then you should win...?
Sounds like he has a habit of being abusive/aggressive so why let him get away with it...
The letter is out to him, so if payment isn't received then this is the next option.If his wife testifies in your favour then you should win...?
Sounds like he has a habit of being abusive/aggressive so why let him get away with it...
I'd love his wife to testify, it would be the biggest insult he could receive. I really doubt she shall though, he's a bully with her too, and I suspect she'd be on the receiving end of words or a slap if she did.
As I mentioned, I heard him having words with her behind a closed door, they were 'how dare you apologise for me, you are my wife, and I wont have you disrespect me like that'. I really wanted to batter him on the spot hearing that. I've no time for men who bully their women. Not the behaviour of a real man.
Fermit The Krog said:
Good plan. Pretty much what I've done/ plan to, but your suggestion adds a delayed submission, a 'do you want to have a think about this'....
I would add the following line to your letter - "Unless you pay off a CCJ in full within 30 days of receiving the judgment, it will be entered on your credit record at the Register of Judgments, Orders and Fines will remain there for six years. This record can seriously affect your ability to get a mortgage, a credit card or even a bank account in the future".
Fermit The Krog said:
cirian75 said:
He sounds like he's the type, zero time for those types, unless I can repeatedly insert my fist in their face.
This, completely. Still bugs me 19 years later.
Eric Mc said:
I would add the following line to your letter -
"Unless you pay off a CCJ in full within 30 days of receiving the judgment, it will be entered on your credit record at the Register of Judgments, Orders and Fines will remain there for six years. This record can seriously affect your ability to get a mortgage, a credit card or even a bank account in the future".
A good paragraph to add, yes. I've established he is a company director, so he wouldn't want this. It is not a case that he can't pay, it's a case that he wants to exert control by not paying. I'm sure if push came to shove (court ruling) he would pay up. "Unless you pay off a CCJ in full within 30 days of receiving the judgment, it will be entered on your credit record at the Register of Judgments, Orders and Fines will remain there for six years. This record can seriously affect your ability to get a mortgage, a credit card or even a bank account in the future".
cirian75 said:
Fermit The Krog said:
cirian75 said:
He sounds like he's the type, zero time for those types, unless I can repeatedly insert my fist in their face.
This, completely. Still bugs me 19 years later.
Such men normally get their day. Be it a beating, a public (news) shaming, or prison (then also a beating)
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