How to catch someone with fingers in the till.
Discussion
In a bar we have someone taking cash from the till. We have a suspicion who it is but we need to put an irrefutable system in place to prove they have taken cash.
I can get the person working alone on the till, but how do I irrefutably prove cash has been taken? They will certainly kick up a fuss and probably try unfair dismissal etc.
The till system is relatively advanced, touch screen system which logs all sales and at the end of the night the manager cashes up. The till does not say what the cash-up amount should be, and only after the manager has entered the cash up amount does the till say whether it is up or down. At the moment when said person is working the cash-up can be down around £15-£20.
Any suggestions? I can put CCTV in but it’s an expense and won’t necessary catch the person as there are ways around it.
I can get the person working alone on the till, but how do I irrefutably prove cash has been taken? They will certainly kick up a fuss and probably try unfair dismissal etc.
The till system is relatively advanced, touch screen system which logs all sales and at the end of the night the manager cashes up. The till does not say what the cash-up amount should be, and only after the manager has entered the cash up amount does the till say whether it is up or down. At the moment when said person is working the cash-up can be down around £15-£20.
Any suggestions? I can put CCTV in but it’s an expense and won’t necessary catch the person as there are ways around it.
Call everyone together and tell them the situation. Invite whoever it is to come forward privately and assure them there will be no police involvement. They may have money troubles you can help with, leaving you with the most loyal, hardest working member of staff you've ever known...
Pothole said:
Call everyone together and tell them the situation. Invite whoever it is to come forward privately and assure them there will be no police involvement. They may have money troubles you can help with, leaving you with the most loyal, hardest working member of staff you've ever known...
In theory...My grandfather caught his accountant skimming the business and spoke to him privately about. He broke down and revealed the extent of his gambling debts etc so grandfather gave him a chance, kept him in his employ and worked out a repayment scheme that he could mange. The bloke was pathetically grateful, tears of gratitude etc.
Until he did it again.
Eta - I'm not saying your wrong btw. Just that it doesn't always go down like that.
CCTV would have to cover amost 360 degrees of the bar, otherwise you palm some cash and walk off to do something and then put it in your pocket when out of CCTV, or just turn around so you back is to CCTV.
We have said we have having problems with the tills at cashing up to all staff and it still happens. We are not looking to offer a second chance.
We have said we have having problems with the tills at cashing up to all staff and it still happens. We are not looking to offer a second chance.
skilly1 said:
In a bar we have someone taking cash from the till. We have a suspicion who it is but we need to put an irrefutable system in place to prove they have taken cash.
I can get the person working alone on the till, but how do I irrefutably prove cash has been taken? They will certainly kick up a fuss and probably try unfair dismissal etc.
The till system is relatively advanced, touch screen system which logs all sales and at the end of the night the manager cashes up. The till does not say what the cash-up amount should be, and only after the manager has entered the cash up amount does the till say whether it is up or down. At the moment when said person is working the cash-up can be down around £15-£20.
Any suggestions? I can put CCTV in but it’s an expense and won’t necessary catch the person as there are ways around it.
I guess the key is whether it's the chap working the till or the chap cashing up being smart?I can get the person working alone on the till, but how do I irrefutably prove cash has been taken? They will certainly kick up a fuss and probably try unfair dismissal etc.
The till system is relatively advanced, touch screen system which logs all sales and at the end of the night the manager cashes up. The till does not say what the cash-up amount should be, and only after the manager has entered the cash up amount does the till say whether it is up or down. At the moment when said person is working the cash-up can be down around £15-£20.
Any suggestions? I can put CCTV in but it’s an expense and won’t necessary catch the person as there are ways around it.
In my experience it tends to be managers as they are more experienced in the ways of diddling a cash business and have an army of itinerant staff to lay the blame on. How does the data look when the person doing the cashing up is on holiday?
I assume the commercial answer is to establish what the industry average % of loss through till pilfering is so you can establish whether you are above or below that and ergo know whether it is yet viable to head down the road of investing in reducing it?
Provide lockable cabinets for all employees and tell them to leave their personal belongings in them, including cash. Anyone caught with cash behind the bar has therefore stolen it and can be instantly dismissed. Tips you say, they go in the communal pot over there.
Your thief will then either need an accomplice as a customer in which case you can bar the suspect or will just start handing out free drinks which is also instant dismissal.
Stationing someone unknown to the suspect at the bar to observe may also be useful.
Your thief will then either need an accomplice as a customer in which case you can bar the suspect or will just start handing out free drinks which is also instant dismissal.
Stationing someone unknown to the suspect at the bar to observe may also be useful.
If you have a float of, say, £200 each night, stick an extra £20 in there, record all of the serial numbers of the £20's and ask him/her to cash up and check the float balances. When they say it does (which they almost certainly will), tell them what you've done and give them the opportunity to fess up or you're calling the police in to search them.
skilly1 said:
CCTV would have to cover amost 360 degrees of the bar, otherwise you palm some cash and walk off to do something and then put it in your pocket when out of CCTV, or just turn around so you back is to CCTV.
We have said we have having problems with the tills at cashing up to all staff and it still happens. We are not looking to offer a second chance.
Apologies, I wrote out a long detailed post describing a host of ways your thief could be doing you over (I used to be in the trade) but I suspected I shouldn't be writing these in a public forum!We have said we have having problems with the tills at cashing up to all staff and it still happens. We are not looking to offer a second chance.
So, TL;DR
It almost always ends up being a simple dip and drop with such low level pilfering. Easiest way to catch it is a cheap camera off amazon pointing at the till your thief is working, if they are right handed position it pointing at the right side of the till with a view of their upper 3/4 of their body on show.
You'll have to watch through the footage on a lap top for a bit but you can easy speed through the footage where they aren't at the till.
There are many elaborate ways of getting cash out of such an environment, but if they're just skimming the odd note I'd bet £20 they're just sticking it straight into their pocket.
We have the state of the art tills in all our pubs and the nightclub three cams on each till.we found out one lass was giving away free drinks to her mates and taking the odd £10,the till was out and stock did not match up she was lucky we did not get the police,instead we just sacked her infront of all her mates.
LaurasOtherHalf said:
Apologies, I wrote out a long detailed post describing a host of ways your thief could be doing you over (I used to be in the trade) but I suspected I shouldn't be writing these in a public forum!
So, TL;DR
It almost always ends up being a simple dip and drop with such low level pilfering. Easiest way to catch it is a cheap camera off amazon pointing at the till your thief is working, if they are right handed position it pointing at the right side of the till with a view of their upper 3/4 of their body on show.
You'll have to watch through the footage on a lap top for a bit but you can easy speed through the footage where they aren't at the till.
There are many elaborate ways of getting cash out of such an environment, but if they're just skimming the odd note I'd bet £20 they're just sticking it straight into their pocket.
Would you use a hidden camera, is that legal? Otherwise if I put a camera on show will they not they will just work around it.So, TL;DR
It almost always ends up being a simple dip and drop with such low level pilfering. Easiest way to catch it is a cheap camera off amazon pointing at the till your thief is working, if they are right handed position it pointing at the right side of the till with a view of their upper 3/4 of their body on show.
You'll have to watch through the footage on a lap top for a bit but you can easy speed through the footage where they aren't at the till.
There are many elaborate ways of getting cash out of such an environment, but if they're just skimming the odd note I'd bet £20 they're just sticking it straight into their pocket.
skilly1 said:
LaurasOtherHalf said:
Apologies, I wrote out a long detailed post describing a host of ways your thief could be doing you over (I used to be in the trade) but I suspected I shouldn't be writing these in a public forum!
So, TL;DR
It almost always ends up being a simple dip and drop with such low level pilfering. Easiest way to catch it is a cheap camera off amazon pointing at the till your thief is working, if they are right handed position it pointing at the right side of the till with a view of their upper 3/4 of their body on show.
You'll have to watch through the footage on a lap top for a bit but you can easy speed through the footage where they aren't at the till.
There are many elaborate ways of getting cash out of such an environment, but if they're just skimming the odd note I'd bet £20 they're just sticking it straight into their pocket.
Would you use a hidden camera, is that legal? Otherwise if I put a camera on show will they not they will just work around it.So, TL;DR
It almost always ends up being a simple dip and drop with such low level pilfering. Easiest way to catch it is a cheap camera off amazon pointing at the till your thief is working, if they are right handed position it pointing at the right side of the till with a view of their upper 3/4 of their body on show.
You'll have to watch through the footage on a lap top for a bit but you can easy speed through the footage where they aren't at the till.
There are many elaborate ways of getting cash out of such an environment, but if they're just skimming the odd note I'd bet £20 they're just sticking it straight into their pocket.
Have you seen the size of these things? They won't notice it's there
The other scam is using an accomplice.
Accomplice comes in and buys drink
Pays with a £5 note
Bar person gives change for a £20
This is harder to pick up on CCTV unless the camera can pick up the transaction screen and has enough definition to distinguish the notes.
One pub i used to work in simply put a camera straight above the till.
My first reaction was to go straight to the landlady and say "who is stealing? I hope you dont think its me."
So be prepared for some reaction from staff when a camera appears.
Accomplice comes in and buys drink
Pays with a £5 note
Bar person gives change for a £20
This is harder to pick up on CCTV unless the camera can pick up the transaction screen and has enough definition to distinguish the notes.
One pub i used to work in simply put a camera straight above the till.
My first reaction was to go straight to the landlady and say "who is stealing? I hope you dont think its me."
So be prepared for some reaction from staff when a camera appears.
skilly1 said:
Would you use a hidden camera, is that legal? Otherwise if I put a camera on show will they not they will just work around it.
We were advised to by our Legals. So long as you are doing so to detect a criminal activity.OP, what does your Employment Contract say about searches?
Simpo Two said:
skilly1 said:
Would you use a hidden camera, is that legal? Otherwise if I put a camera on show will they not they will just work around it.
There's covert and overt. Overts are deterrents 'cos everybody can see them; coverts are to catch people.Gassing Station | Business | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff