Employee advice / conflict of interest?
Discussion
Looking for a bit of feedback on a situation I have at the moment.
I have currently said nothing and done nothing as to be honest unsure to a degree whether I have a right /reason to be put out.
Our mechanic, great hard working individual and a real asset to my team.
We use 2 bodyshops. 1 of these bodyshops has been getting my mechanic to go in at evenings and weekends and do mechanical work, all cash in hand and working on bodyshop owners mates/contacts cars doing strictly cash jobs.
Our mechanic is not turning our work down, and I would say probably treats us as priority number 1 ie if offered overtime with us and bodyshop at same time would do the job for us first.
My business is car sales and we have recently been pushing the service/repair side of things to the general public with view to increasing that. This has been communicated clearly and with involvement of our mechanic.
Bodyshop is bodyshop activities and mechanical repairs to the public. Some cars get sold there ( cat c /d stuff). 3 miles from my site.
I feel that the bodyshop has crossed a line in essence trying to poach my staff. I could quite easily have asked his staff to come and do jobs for me but out of respect for a business relationship would never do so. By the same token my local MOT centres have staff I could ask to come and do evening work for me when busy but out of respect for the owner and business relationship its not something I would do. Maybe I am wrong and its a free for all out there. Bodyshop owner previously got a bit upset with us when he realised we used another business not solely him despite him having absolutely no way of getting through any more work.
Couple of my concerns are this causes a rift in my team and complications for me as a business. One I see is that out of this situation I do not trust my bodyshop guy now and will have to look to find a new place to turn my cars around.
My mechanic ends up burnt out as we already regularly put in a lot of hours in my place with early starts and late finishes. I then end up paying sick pay as he is overworked.
He ends up injured there and off sick do I end up paying for it.
Lost a little trust and respect for my mechanic out of this situation to be honest. I think we all know mechanics will do foreigner jobs here and there for friends and family etc but working for another commercial organisation in a similar field does seem to be a conflict of interests to me.
I currently pay well above industry average wage and mechanic working for me (22/23yr old) is on track to have taken around 30k this year from us.
What would you do?
I have currently said nothing and done nothing as to be honest unsure to a degree whether I have a right /reason to be put out.
Our mechanic, great hard working individual and a real asset to my team.
We use 2 bodyshops. 1 of these bodyshops has been getting my mechanic to go in at evenings and weekends and do mechanical work, all cash in hand and working on bodyshop owners mates/contacts cars doing strictly cash jobs.
Our mechanic is not turning our work down, and I would say probably treats us as priority number 1 ie if offered overtime with us and bodyshop at same time would do the job for us first.
My business is car sales and we have recently been pushing the service/repair side of things to the general public with view to increasing that. This has been communicated clearly and with involvement of our mechanic.
Bodyshop is bodyshop activities and mechanical repairs to the public. Some cars get sold there ( cat c /d stuff). 3 miles from my site.
I feel that the bodyshop has crossed a line in essence trying to poach my staff. I could quite easily have asked his staff to come and do jobs for me but out of respect for a business relationship would never do so. By the same token my local MOT centres have staff I could ask to come and do evening work for me when busy but out of respect for the owner and business relationship its not something I would do. Maybe I am wrong and its a free for all out there. Bodyshop owner previously got a bit upset with us when he realised we used another business not solely him despite him having absolutely no way of getting through any more work.
Couple of my concerns are this causes a rift in my team and complications for me as a business. One I see is that out of this situation I do not trust my bodyshop guy now and will have to look to find a new place to turn my cars around.
My mechanic ends up burnt out as we already regularly put in a lot of hours in my place with early starts and late finishes. I then end up paying sick pay as he is overworked.
He ends up injured there and off sick do I end up paying for it.
Lost a little trust and respect for my mechanic out of this situation to be honest. I think we all know mechanics will do foreigner jobs here and there for friends and family etc but working for another commercial organisation in a similar field does seem to be a conflict of interests to me.
I currently pay well above industry average wage and mechanic working for me (22/23yr old) is on track to have taken around 30k this year from us.
What would you do?
Is there anything in his contract of employment? Every one I've ever signed has had a clause in it about taking on work outside of the company.
Regardless, tread carefully. Although you feel put out, has it caused any negative effect on your company up to now? If not, there's no point being angry with him. That's especially true if he's a good worker.
Have a chat with him, and explain that you feel uncomfortable with him doing work on the side for what is becoming a competitor for your company. Make sure he understands exactly why it's a problem - one of the big issues I've seen with this sort of thing is when a manager says "don't do that because I said so".
Don't offer any immediate sanction, but make sure that he understands he's been given a fair warning that you are not happy with the situation. Hopefully he'll take the hint and it'll get nipped in the bud without having to do anything else.
In tandem with that, try to make his job a bit more fulfilling if you can - is there any scope for giving him a role in managing any aspects of the workshop (ordering stuff, scheduling work, that sort of thing)? It might make him feel a bit more invested in your company, and if he's good at it it's a good result for you too.
Regardless, tread carefully. Although you feel put out, has it caused any negative effect on your company up to now? If not, there's no point being angry with him. That's especially true if he's a good worker.
Have a chat with him, and explain that you feel uncomfortable with him doing work on the side for what is becoming a competitor for your company. Make sure he understands exactly why it's a problem - one of the big issues I've seen with this sort of thing is when a manager says "don't do that because I said so".
Don't offer any immediate sanction, but make sure that he understands he's been given a fair warning that you are not happy with the situation. Hopefully he'll take the hint and it'll get nipped in the bud without having to do anything else.
In tandem with that, try to make his job a bit more fulfilling if you can - is there any scope for giving him a role in managing any aspects of the workshop (ordering stuff, scheduling work, that sort of thing)? It might make him feel a bit more invested in your company, and if he's good at it it's a good result for you too.
You already know the answer to this.
Decide if you are willing to risk of pissing off/losing your mechanic and/or your bodywork guys and if you are then have a word with whichever one you feel would be best. If you aren't willing to risk it then you need to bite your tongue.
Conversation with mechanic could be anything from "i don't mind you doing it so long as it never conflicts with our work" to "I'm paying you enough, stop doing it or pack your bags".
Conversation with bodyshop would be pointing out that you think it's poor form but they would presumably either ignore you or agree and bin the guy off (and tell him why) in which case you're probably as well just talking to him in the first place.
Decide if you are willing to risk of pissing off/losing your mechanic and/or your bodywork guys and if you are then have a word with whichever one you feel would be best. If you aren't willing to risk it then you need to bite your tongue.
Conversation with mechanic could be anything from "i don't mind you doing it so long as it never conflicts with our work" to "I'm paying you enough, stop doing it or pack your bags".
Conversation with bodyshop would be pointing out that you think it's poor form but they would presumably either ignore you or agree and bin the guy off (and tell him why) in which case you're probably as well just talking to him in the first place.
You may also want to consider sorting more formal contract arrangements with the two people/companies.
1) Mechanic - Make sure his contract has no work for third parties without your approval written in. Offer a little more money to make him accept this cherry.
2) Bodyshop - Get a contract drawn up with him setting out your terms of business and make poaching your staff a dealbreaker in this also. Make it clear to him that you'll take all the business elsewhere if he continues to piss on your wheetabix.
Make sure your other staff are similarly protected and look to enter into similar agreements with other companies you work closely with regarding staff non-compete/hire.
1) Mechanic - Make sure his contract has no work for third parties without your approval written in. Offer a little more money to make him accept this cherry.
2) Bodyshop - Get a contract drawn up with him setting out your terms of business and make poaching your staff a dealbreaker in this also. Make it clear to him that you'll take all the business elsewhere if he continues to piss on your wheetabix.
Make sure your other staff are similarly protected and look to enter into similar agreements with other companies you work closely with regarding staff non-compete/hire.
8-5 normal hours regularly 1-2 hours overtime per day with us when he wants it.
6 days with us.
Hence me being worried about burnout as I am conscious he already works a lot with us.
Part of me feels like I'm being a silly little girl and back in the playground with he's my friend not yours but the fact of the matter is with the hours the lad puts in at our place if he ends up working til 1/2/3am elsewhere somethings going to give whether it's his health / his attitude / costly mistakes etc.
I do allow fair holidays and ample opportunity to take time to enjoy yourself and the overall package he has with us is very fair with additional benefits.
6 days with us.
Hence me being worried about burnout as I am conscious he already works a lot with us.
Part of me feels like I'm being a silly little girl and back in the playground with he's my friend not yours but the fact of the matter is with the hours the lad puts in at our place if he ends up working til 1/2/3am elsewhere somethings going to give whether it's his health / his attitude / costly mistakes etc.
I do allow fair holidays and ample opportunity to take time to enjoy yourself and the overall package he has with us is very fair with additional benefits.
Edited by JimmyConwayNW on Monday 7th November 12:25
I would let him know that he should be declaring all his income to HMRC - as his employer you declare what you pay to HMRC but I'm sure if HMRC found out he was doing work somewhere else and not declaring then HMRC may well do an investigation into your business as well to see if you had paid him cash over and above his wages and him not declaring.
If he doesn't declare the extra income then that's down to him. But as you are employing him full time you need to cover your back as well.
If he doesn't declare the extra income then that's down to him. But as you are employing him full time you need to cover your back as well.
Jimmy I think your main concerns over A the fact that the bodyshop have overstepped the line and B that the chap is likely to be burning out are exactly right.
I'd be having a word with the body shop and the mechanic. It sounds like he is on very good money and if the bodyshop are shuffling about in the shadows having to pay cash in hand and not employ their own mechanic you can put a stop to it without risking the bodyshop offering him a better deal.
I'd be having a word with the body shop and the mechanic. It sounds like he is on very good money and if the bodyshop are shuffling about in the shadows having to pay cash in hand and not employ their own mechanic you can put a stop to it without risking the bodyshop offering him a better deal.
I'm just going to say
You don't own him, you buy 8-10 hours of his life a day. What he does outside of that is up to him. Employers seem to forget this little factoid.
However, if he doesn't turn up for those 8 hours, then he doesn't get paid. That's the choice he makes by wanting to have his cake and eat the cream and cherry too.
You don't own him, you buy 8-10 hours of his life a day. What he does outside of that is up to him. Employers seem to forget this little factoid.
However, if he doesn't turn up for those 8 hours, then he doesn't get paid. That's the choice he makes by wanting to have his cake and eat the cream and cherry too.
Have you also considered the working hours directive? IIRC the limit is 48 hours per week unless the employee has signed an agreement that it does not apply? As others have mentioned there is the HMRC angle as well. Most contracts of employment contain a section on working for others requiring agreement from the employer.
JimmyConwayNW said:
I have currently said nothing and done nothing as to be honest unsure to a degree whether I have a right /reason to be put out.
Our mechanic, great hard working individual and a real asset to my team.
As a first step, get the tea on and sit down and have a chat and express your concerns. Find out his point of view and be sure to say your second line above, i.e. what an asset he is to the team.Our mechanic, great hard working individual and a real asset to my team.
Also have a sitdown with the bodyshop and express your concerns, if they are good bodyshop and you don't want the hassle of finding another then come to a contractual understanding that in future they won't steal staff without written permission from you.
Edited by hyphen on Thursday 10th November 09:10
Don said:
Out of hours he can do what he likes. It's not your problem.
If he doesn't work satisfactorily during the hours he works for you then you can have a word. But otherwise?
He could be running his own business of an evening doing anything at all. Lots of people have two jobs these days.
Very much this, I don't think it's any of your concern at the moment, providing he is doing his job well.If he doesn't work satisfactorily during the hours he works for you then you can have a word. But otherwise?
He could be running his own business of an evening doing anything at all. Lots of people have two jobs these days.
mondeoman said:
I'm just going to say
You don't own him, you buy 8-10 hours of his life a day. What he does outside of that is up to him. Employers seem to forget this little factoid.
However, if he doesn't turn up for those 8 hours, then he doesn't get paid. That's the choice he makes by wanting to have his cake and eat the cream and cherry too.
Except, that's not the case. If he is employed by the OP, the OP is obliged to pay him sick pay. If he's off sick because he's burning himself out at another job, that's an issue for the OP.You don't own him, you buy 8-10 hours of his life a day. What he does outside of that is up to him. Employers seem to forget this little factoid.
However, if he doesn't turn up for those 8 hours, then he doesn't get paid. That's the choice he makes by wanting to have his cake and eat the cream and cherry too.
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