Bathroom design/supply without a showroom, would it work?
Discussion
I recently had a new bathroom designed and supplied by a local bathroom/kitchen company.
The lady that designed by bathroom was very personable, professional and did a fantastic job of creating what I wanted (I had delt with her previously and went back because of this)
A few weeks after the bathroom was delivered, I tried to contact her but she was 'no longer working for the company' a quick LinkedIn search and I managed to contact her as I interested to know where she was going for any future works. She got back to me saying she didn't have anything set in stone at present and was having a short break before deciding. I asked her to give me a call before making any decisions.
I have on previous occasions helped people startup businesses (through my own capital and my business development experience). I help get the business off the ground and take care of the 'business' side whilst they do the day to day running. Shareholding is split in my favour until I clear my directors loan and then equally balanced. It works well for me because I enjoy the startup process and then take more of a back seat when established and running. They enjoy the fruits of their labour and have me on board for backup/support and help growing the business. Shareholders agreement are put in place prior to startup to protect my/their interests.
So the cogs are turning in my head. I'm meeting with her next week to discuss her next move, her reasons for leaving previous employer and whether a business venture between us would work.
My thought process is whether we could establish her as a designer/supplier of bathrooms for middle>top end clientele. She would visit their homes, design based on their requirements (3d visuals etc) and source/supply required sanitary ware, tiles etc and recommend preferred subcontractors (possibly having own fitters in the future).
I guess she would sort of be an interior designer but specifically for bathrooms.
I've done a few hours of googling, there doesn't seem to be anything local to me of this nature. I've tried to search for something similar nationally, but struggling to find anything. Is this because something of this nature just wouldn't work? Do people want to go to a showroom before picking their bathroom furniture? I can imagine 80% of people probably would, but surely there is a more personal service available for the top end of the market?
There is obviously a lot more work to do before establishing whether this venture is a go-er, but i'd appreciate any feedback or industry insight into whether something like this would work?
The lady that designed by bathroom was very personable, professional and did a fantastic job of creating what I wanted (I had delt with her previously and went back because of this)
A few weeks after the bathroom was delivered, I tried to contact her but she was 'no longer working for the company' a quick LinkedIn search and I managed to contact her as I interested to know where she was going for any future works. She got back to me saying she didn't have anything set in stone at present and was having a short break before deciding. I asked her to give me a call before making any decisions.
I have on previous occasions helped people startup businesses (through my own capital and my business development experience). I help get the business off the ground and take care of the 'business' side whilst they do the day to day running. Shareholding is split in my favour until I clear my directors loan and then equally balanced. It works well for me because I enjoy the startup process and then take more of a back seat when established and running. They enjoy the fruits of their labour and have me on board for backup/support and help growing the business. Shareholders agreement are put in place prior to startup to protect my/their interests.
So the cogs are turning in my head. I'm meeting with her next week to discuss her next move, her reasons for leaving previous employer and whether a business venture between us would work.
My thought process is whether we could establish her as a designer/supplier of bathrooms for middle>top end clientele. She would visit their homes, design based on their requirements (3d visuals etc) and source/supply required sanitary ware, tiles etc and recommend preferred subcontractors (possibly having own fitters in the future).
I guess she would sort of be an interior designer but specifically for bathrooms.
I've done a few hours of googling, there doesn't seem to be anything local to me of this nature. I've tried to search for something similar nationally, but struggling to find anything. Is this because something of this nature just wouldn't work? Do people want to go to a showroom before picking their bathroom furniture? I can imagine 80% of people probably would, but surely there is a more personal service available for the top end of the market?
There is obviously a lot more work to do before establishing whether this venture is a go-er, but i'd appreciate any feedback or industry insight into whether something like this would work?
I suspect many people browse in a showroom, get design ideas etc, then go home and buy it all on the internet from somewhere cheaper. In your above scenario they will ask your lady to visit, note all her ideas and etc. It could work but seems a very top end 'Country Life' kind of service to me so consider your market carefully before jumping in.
This is an interesting idea - I think you need to be clear how you charge and how you are going to try to make your money.
In my example I wanted a couple of bathrooms redesigned in my house and I wanted nice designs - I have found previously choosing the right design of tile, grout colours, cabinets etc can be quite tricky if you want that relaxed, high quality, hotel look.
So I found a local interior designer, we agreed an hourly rate which was circa £50 / hr and I then paid a total of £1000 for the two backroom designs which I thought was fair.
However, even though I had paid for her time to produce the design, she refused to give me details of the items she was specifying (so I couldn't check if I could buy them cheaper). She insisted through her "trade contacts" they were already at the best possible prices.
Before finalising the order I happened to stumble across the range of cabinets and sanitary wares she was specifying - it was a 'niche' manufacturer not stocked in many places. She had marked up the price by around 35% over and above what I eventually managed to buy them for.
In the end, I had to buy the tiles through her and some of the fabrics. But I sourced many of the other items elsewhere.
My bugbear was a confusion at the start as to what I was paying for - I thought I was paying £50/hr for design work. She wanted £50 / hr plus a healthy mark-up on all items I purchased.
If I had known that at the start I may have decided to use a different designer.
Different thing, but similar:
We were buying new external doors, we wanted one for the back of the house which was one of the composite stable door type things - which would have suited our needs perfectly.
However, we couldn't find anyone in the city who actually had on in their showroom for us to play with. The OH was dead against buying 'blind', so we haven't bought yet (however did buy a new, normal front door which has since been fitted).
I'd probably be the same with taps and stuff like that, you can't beat the action of a good tap!
We were buying new external doors, we wanted one for the back of the house which was one of the composite stable door type things - which would have suited our needs perfectly.
However, we couldn't find anyone in the city who actually had on in their showroom for us to play with. The OH was dead against buying 'blind', so we haven't bought yet (however did buy a new, normal front door which has since been fitted).
I'd probably be the same with taps and stuff like that, you can't beat the action of a good tap!
EddieSteadyGo said:
Before finalising the order I happened to stumble across the range of cabinets and sanitary wares she was specifying - it was a 'niche' manufacturer not stocked in many places. She had marked up the price by around 35% over and above what I eventually managed to buy them for.
In the pre-internet days I started a business where I envisaged living on a daily rate. If I got one contract a month I'd be OK. But so many opportunities cropped up where I could buy in a service/product and mark it up that soon I was earning much more from that than fees. And then they invented the internet damn damn damn...Nobody sells stuff at cost, or they shouldn't. They use time and take risk to do it. And I suspect that your designer couldn't make a living at £50/hr - because she couldn't sell enough hours. 35% was the standard markup when I worked for an agency. You need that just to keep the wheels turning. Making a decent living when everyone can Google a cheaper alternative is not easy.
Simpo Two said:
<snip>
Nobody sells stuff at cost, or they shouldn't. They use time and take risk to do it. And I suspect that your designer couldn't make a living at £50/hr - because she couldn't sell enough hours. <snip>
I think that is where the misunderstanding started. Many people can make a decent living at £50/hr. Nobody sells stuff at cost, or they shouldn't. They use time and take risk to do it. And I suspect that your designer couldn't make a living at £50/hr - because she couldn't sell enough hours. <snip>
In my case, I wasn't asking her to supply anything at cost. I wanted to pay for a design with a list of materials so I could source it, rather like you would an architect.
If the design work had been free, which I would guess is what the OP has in mind, that would be a different matter.
Of course this is the direction that businesses are going - the showroom need is starting to dwindle.
A decent web based company could do really well - massive reduction in costs in not needing to have a physical area devoted to display of merchandise and you couldn't stock everything that you would be selling.
So get a decent website set up. what you are selling is not the actual items but the service, sourcing it and putting it in installing it etc.
What would I be looking for ?
Quality installation - workmen properly qualified.
emphasis in providing a good service, years ago the emphasis was on cad this and computerised that, not so much now as computers are not the thing that they were, where it is at now is integrating into peoples needs - be there when you will say you will be there, no 4 hour windows. its about getting in and getting paid for doing a good job that fits in with the clients time scales.
Reputation, website reviews photographs of previous work etc. if you can do that then you are pushing on and thats what matters, there is no need to have a showroom.
A decent web based company could do really well - massive reduction in costs in not needing to have a physical area devoted to display of merchandise and you couldn't stock everything that you would be selling.
So get a decent website set up. what you are selling is not the actual items but the service, sourcing it and putting it in installing it etc.
What would I be looking for ?
Quality installation - workmen properly qualified.
emphasis in providing a good service, years ago the emphasis was on cad this and computerised that, not so much now as computers are not the thing that they were, where it is at now is integrating into peoples needs - be there when you will say you will be there, no 4 hour windows. its about getting in and getting paid for doing a good job that fits in with the clients time scales.
Reputation, website reviews photographs of previous work etc. if you can do that then you are pushing on and thats what matters, there is no need to have a showroom.
raw said:
My thought process is whether we could establish her as a designer/supplier of bathrooms for middle>top end clientele...
Unless you already have an extensive network of contacts I don't see any way of doing this without a showroom. Even firms that advertise (at considerable expense) in magazines such as Country Life all have showrooms.EddieSteadyGo said:
This is an interesting idea - I think you need to be clear how you charge and how you are going to try to make your money.
This was at the forefront of my mind, the mass of the market offer free design service, but from my own personal experience they're not designers..more like salesman who can use a software package.I'm thinking along the lines of a fixed fee for design but deductible from final invoice if they wanted to go ahead with supply and/or installation.
jonamv8 said:
We deal with a few client/designers who take a photo of existing bathroom, we import 3D products, render and composite to a photomontage. Better than showroom as it is there actual space. Saved some clients big money on designs they would have hated post installation
Very interesting, the use of modern technology can certainly help paint people a better picture of what they're getting than seeing a mash of bits in a showroom. I may need to contact you should this go ahead!ruggedscotty said:
Of course this is the direction that businesses are going - the showroom need is starting to dwindle.
This is my thought process too. A high quality website with electronic or printed brochures should help people make decisions relatively easy, with the help of the designer of course.Quality, reputation and customer satisfaction will be absolutely key. I have an interest in another serviced based business at the 'luxury' end of the market that does exactly that and word of mouth is our best form of marketing.
Thank you all for your feedback thus far!
raw said:
EddieSteadyGo said:
This is an interesting idea - I think you need to be clear how you charge and how you are going to try to make your money.
<snip>This was at the forefront of my mind, the mass of the market offer free design service, but from my own personal experience they're not designers..more like salesman who can use a software package.
<snip>
This is why I decided to search out a designer who I could pay a fair price for their time to get what I was looking for.
My experience of customers in the market for home improvements is that they want to look at something physical. It needn't be a complete (in my case) kitchen but they wanted to at least look at some cabinets etc. I don't think I would ever have been able to sell a kitchen without something to show.
If your bathroom designer friend is interested, I would like to at least have an initial conversation for a new build we're currently in the process of.
My gut feeling is that I think I'd like to get an idea for the design and then go to a showroom to see (at least some of) the products and possibly some tile samples to gain an idea of quality of the products etc.
Please get in touch via PM and we can go from there.
My gut feeling is that I think I'd like to get an idea for the design and then go to a showroom to see (at least some of) the products and possibly some tile samples to gain an idea of quality of the products etc.
Please get in touch via PM and we can go from there.
IME this is definitely a workable business and I did something similar a few years ago (different sector but big physical home related products from £3000 - £30,000).
Good images are enough for many people and whilst showrooms are nice, customers can see what a toilet looks like without having to see one.
In the market your are targeting they won't care how much you charge for appliances, installers etc, they just want a one-stop-shop that's high quality and easy for them to deal with.
We set our business up for £3000 and that was mostly website and PPC and it turned over £100k in year 2 despite us having no showroom or holding any stock and we didn't even work full time on it.
You just need a good salesperson (we didn't have one) and good installers (we had one to begin with and expanded after that - all were contractors so no need for any payroll etc.).
Good images are enough for many people and whilst showrooms are nice, customers can see what a toilet looks like without having to see one.
In the market your are targeting they won't care how much you charge for appliances, installers etc, they just want a one-stop-shop that's high quality and easy for them to deal with.
We set our business up for £3000 and that was mostly website and PPC and it turned over £100k in year 2 despite us having no showroom or holding any stock and we didn't even work full time on it.
You just need a good salesperson (we didn't have one) and good installers (we had one to begin with and expanded after that - all were contractors so no need for any payroll etc.).
You might well do and that will always be people who like to do that but there will also be many who don't need to touch and physically see products. In the business I worked on very few people wanted to see the products for themselves before buying but some inevitably did. It wasn't worthwhile setting up this option though for so few people.
I don't think a showroom is necessary.
People at this level tend to know what quality brands already feel like. Most will be aware of the high brand names and probably experience them elsewhere in the house/friends house/second home/hotels etc.
If not a few magazines soon gives you an idea of the market leaders.
When buying our kitchen we chose the brand first and then found a designer who had an account with them.
I can see this business working with high end work, if it were me I would look at offering a kitchen AND bathroom design service.
People at this level tend to know what quality brands already feel like. Most will be aware of the high brand names and probably experience them elsewhere in the house/friends house/second home/hotels etc.
If not a few magazines soon gives you an idea of the market leaders.
When buying our kitchen we chose the brand first and then found a designer who had an account with them.
I can see this business working with high end work, if it were me I would look at offering a kitchen AND bathroom design service.
Edited by astroarcadia on Friday 18th November 17:28
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