Fraud on business debit card
Discussion
Some months back there was a debit card transaction for £550 on my business debit card. I spotted this about 4 months later (well within the 9 month time limit) and raised a dispute with my bank. They advised me to contact the high street retailer through which this transaction allegedly happened. The retailer denied any record of the transaction.
I called the bank back and told them this. According to my bank, the transaction was made online and authorised via my card number and security code. The bank immediately reversed the transaction.
Last night I was casually browsing my statement and saw that the £550 had been redebited from my account. I called the bank this morning and after speaking with several people have the following extra info:
1. the bank allegedly wrote to me in early January saying they would be redebiting my account because after contacting the retailer, the retailer is adamant that the transaction was made by me. I didn't receive this letter.
2. the grounds the retailer is using to contest my claim is that the transaction was authorised using the signature strip code and therefore must have been made by me. Cos who else would have this info (yes, really).
3. the bank told me that today was the last day for me to appeal this. Apparently the appeals process was laid out in the letter they wrote.
I have appealed, spoken to my relationship manager and told him I will take my business elsewhere because my money is not safe. The way the bank is acting, my account could be cleared out and they would allow that because the retailer would say the transaction was appropriately authorised.
I am genuinely quite scared.
What else can I do?
There is a high six figure sum in my business current account.
I called the bank back and told them this. According to my bank, the transaction was made online and authorised via my card number and security code. The bank immediately reversed the transaction.
Last night I was casually browsing my statement and saw that the £550 had been redebited from my account. I called the bank this morning and after speaking with several people have the following extra info:
1. the bank allegedly wrote to me in early January saying they would be redebiting my account because after contacting the retailer, the retailer is adamant that the transaction was made by me. I didn't receive this letter.
2. the grounds the retailer is using to contest my claim is that the transaction was authorised using the signature strip code and therefore must have been made by me. Cos who else would have this info (yes, really).
3. the bank told me that today was the last day for me to appeal this. Apparently the appeals process was laid out in the letter they wrote.
I have appealed, spoken to my relationship manager and told him I will take my business elsewhere because my money is not safe. The way the bank is acting, my account could be cleared out and they would allow that because the retailer would say the transaction was appropriately authorised.
I am genuinely quite scared.
What else can I do?
There is a high six figure sum in my business current account.
http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/site/resolver
I recently used this free tool to complain about a bank error on my business account. Problem resolved in about 5 days including a little compo.
I was surprised.
I recently used this free tool to complain about a bank error on my business account. Problem resolved in about 5 days including a little compo.
I was surprised.
Thanks. I will take a detailed look at this tomorrow.
My fear is that because I am a business, I am exempt from any consumer protections. I suspect you were refunded out of goodwill rather than anything else.
Should this get resolved, I am strongly leaning towards cancelling my debit card completely.
My fear is that because I am a business, I am exempt from any consumer protections. I suspect you were refunded out of goodwill rather than anything else.
Should this get resolved, I am strongly leaning towards cancelling my debit card completely.
MrJuice said:
There is a high six figure sum in my business current account.
There is really no reason why their should be. Keep a small float in there and then have a deposit account (one that doesn't auto sweep). Even if you cock up your bank should be able to get hold of you so you can transfer sufficient to cover. With an ongoing balance of this amount one of the nice banks with real people should be happy to look after you.I have almost completely stopped using debit cards for this very reason.
desolate said:
There is really no reason why their should be. Keep a small float in there and then have a deposit account (one that doesn't auto sweep). Even if you cock up your bank should be able to get hold of you so you can transfer sufficient to cover. With an ongoing balance of this amount one of the nice banks with real people should be happy to look after you.
I have almost completely stopped using debit cards for this very reason.
There is a high balance (for me) now. But equally, I spend a lot on stock too. So balance can get spent quickly too. It would not be unusual for me to spend say 100k on stock by the end of the week.I have almost completely stopped using debit cards for this very reason.
If I leave a float, it does not protect me from frauds of this size.
To add, I don't make squillions. Turnover is obviously not the same as profit. Thank you.
MrJuice said:
There is a high balance (for me) now. But equally, I spend a lot on stock too. So balance can get spent quickly too. It would not be unusual for me to spend say 100k on stock by the end of the week.
If I leave a float, it does not protect me from frauds of this size.
To add, I don't make squillions. Turnover is obviously not the same as profit. Thank you.
Ok - just never use a debit card then.If I leave a float, it does not protect me from frauds of this size.
To add, I don't make squillions. Turnover is obviously not the same as profit. Thank you.
desolate said:
MrJuice said:
There is a high balance (for me) now. But equally, I spend a lot on stock too. So balance can get spent quickly too. It would not be unusual for me to spend say 100k on stock by the end of the week.
If I leave a float, it does not protect me from frauds of this size.
To add, I don't make squillions. Turnover is obviously not the same as profit. Thank you.
Ok - just never use a debit card then.If I leave a float, it does not protect me from frauds of this size.
To add, I don't make squillions. Turnover is obviously not the same as profit. Thank you.
I try to keep as little links as possible to the business bank account as I can. It is purely for business stock purchase, HMRC, sales deposits from various market places and for wholesale customers to pay into.
MrJuice said:
Thanks. I will take a detailed look at this tomorrow.
My fear is that because I am a business, I am exempt from any consumer protections. I suspect you were refunded out of goodwill rather than anything else.
Should this get resolved, I am strongly leaning towards cancelling my debit card completely.
Nothing to do with consumer protection. Card fraud comes under The Payment Services Regulations 2009. There is no differentiation between a consumer and a business.My fear is that because I am a business, I am exempt from any consumer protections. I suspect you were refunded out of goodwill rather than anything else.
Should this get resolved, I am strongly leaning towards cancelling my debit card completely.
Payers liability for unauthorised payment transaction said:
62.—(1) Subject to paragraphs (2) and (3), the payer is liable up to a maximum of £50 for any losses incurred in respect of unauthorised payment transactions arising—
(a)from the use of a lost or stolen payment instrument; or
(b)where the payer has failed to keep the personalised security features of the payment instrument safe, from the misappropriation of the payment instrument.
(2) The payer is liable for all losses incurred in respect of an unauthorised payment transaction where the payer—
(a)has acted fraudulently; or
(b)has with intent or gross negligence failed to comply with regulation 57.
(3) Except where the payer has acted fraudulently, the payer is not liable for any losses incurred in respect of an unauthorised payment transaction—
(a)arising after notification under regulation 57(1)(b);
(b)where the payment service provider has failed at any time to provide, in accordance with regulation 58(1)(c), appropriate means for notification; or
(c)where the payment instrument has been used in connection with a distance contract (other than an excepted contract).
(4) In paragraph (3)(c) “distance contract” and “excepted contract” have the meanings given in the Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations 2000(1).
(a)from the use of a lost or stolen payment instrument; or
(b)where the payer has failed to keep the personalised security features of the payment instrument safe, from the misappropriation of the payment instrument.
(2) The payer is liable for all losses incurred in respect of an unauthorised payment transaction where the payer—
(a)has acted fraudulently; or
(b)has with intent or gross negligence failed to comply with regulation 57.
(3) Except where the payer has acted fraudulently, the payer is not liable for any losses incurred in respect of an unauthorised payment transaction—
(a)arising after notification under regulation 57(1)(b);
(b)where the payment service provider has failed at any time to provide, in accordance with regulation 58(1)(c), appropriate means for notification; or
(c)where the payment instrument has been used in connection with a distance contract (other than an excepted contract).
(4) In paragraph (3)(c) “distance contract” and “excepted contract” have the meanings given in the Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations 2000(1).
XMT said:
This! Its just not worth the risk. My business bank account doesnt have any linked debit/credit cards at all. I spend it on my person CC/DC and transfer the funds to my person account.
I try to keep as little links as possible to the business bank account as I can. It is purely for business stock purchase, HMRC, sales deposits from various market places and for wholesale customers to pay into.
If you get a personal credit card and claim back on a monthly basis then you also get the benefit of any card advantages.I try to keep as little links as possible to the business bank account as I can. It is purely for business stock purchase, HMRC, sales deposits from various market places and for wholesale customers to pay into.
I used to pay for google ad words on my personal amex and the airmiles were epic!
I spoke with my relationship manager. It seemed his hands were tied. Spoke to the financial ombudsman. Excellent service. While explaining the story to them, the chap was making notes and by the end of our brief conversation, he had written a letter of complaint to the bank. Bank are then obliged to reply. If I am not satisfied with the outcome, I can take it back to the FOS for a final decision.
In the end, the bank are refunding my money as a gesture of goodwill. They maintain that the merchant was not at fault because the payment was authorised by my signature-strip code. So basically, I am (and you are) at risk of this happening again and again.
I need my debit card and would struggle without it so for the moment I am covering the security code with a sticker so that no one can casually record it when glancing at it. Let's hope that protects me.
In the end, the bank are refunding my money as a gesture of goodwill. They maintain that the merchant was not at fault because the payment was authorised by my signature-strip code. So basically, I am (and you are) at risk of this happening again and again.
I need my debit card and would struggle without it so for the moment I am covering the security code with a sticker so that no one can casually record it when glancing at it. Let's hope that protects me.
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